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Post by opiomorph on Aug 29, 2016 14:40:27 GMT
Only if they're the protagonist and so are important enough to merit that sort of attention. Bra isn't, however, the protagonist of Multiverse, she's a secondary character. As well, Multiverse is only half over, so even if she is intended to be the protagonist, she shouldn't have this kind of punishment yet. Such an event is usually saved for about two-thirds to three-quarters of the way through the story. For example, in Julius Caesar, Brutus (the main character despite the title) doesn't suffer anything remotely resembling consequences for his actions and his fatal flaw of Pride until the very end of Act III, when Marc Antony whips the Romans up into a furor over Caesar's death. Given that in a Shakespearean play Act IV is always a short act in terms of length, this means that his comeuppance doesn't even begin until more than three-fifths of the way through the play. I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you here on couple points here, mate. First of all, DBM doesn't really have a protagonist, it's more of an ensemble piece. Where several equally important characters go through their own stories, that are clearly set up to intertwine at some point(Raditz, Buu, Bra etc.). U18 most definitely aren't protagonists, they might have racked up plenty of panel time in the beginning, but in the end - they're tertiary characters at best. After doing their initial job as audience avatars to ease us into the settings, they got relegated to glorified cheerleaders and scouters with a dash of comic relief here and there. If we were hard pressed to mark down a protagonist, I would point to either Bra(there's plenty of setup showing her as prominent in the future, and even now, Salagir pretty much set her up to be DBMs mascot) or Zen Buu. But as you said, we're not even halfway there, yet. Regarding the concept of comeuppance. It's one thing to have a character set up for a Karma backlash and not put them in such situations until the plot finally calls for it, and a whole other thing to repeatedly set up a character for a character building moment, then bail it out, because plot. Her case is egregious to the point where you can see The Plot bending over and spreading it for her.She's obviously important enough to be put in these situations in the first place, instead of staying in the background. Sure, subverting a Karma backlash once in a while is good to keep things unpredictable, but repeatedly and unerringly bailing a character out of trouble, because plot is bad writing, as it neuters the story - a character may as well never get into a mess, if there won't ever be any consequences(be these character building catalysts for internal conflict or full on storywise game changers) until some magical, unspecified moment.
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Post by Lord Rime on Aug 29, 2016 16:44:14 GMT
Keep in mind that without Bra's fight with Cold, she is significantly behind most other major characters in terms of both page count and panel count. After this fight concludes she is likely to drop back down again.
Thing is, I haven't seen it happen until this fight with Cold. Both her fight with Eleim and her fight with Zangya were forgone conclusions. "Getting away" with Zangya isn't subverting a karma backlash because she hadn't done anything yet to deserve one, whereas verses Eleim she was in control of the situation throughout the entire fight, and didn't once underestimate him (she is surprised by him a few times, but that's not the same thing) or let her pride or arrogance get in the way of her victory: she avoids rather than trying to tank his blasts, attempts to take off her weighted clothes as soon as they are obviously putting her victory at risk, and when push comes to shove wins by ring-out rather than risk herself or the crowd. Sure, she acts like an prick the whole time, but she is still taking the fight as seriously as the situation warrants.
Her fight with Cold is the first time she let her arrogance go to her head. Yes, it nearly cost her her life. No, she doesn't seem to have learned anything from it. No, it doesn't matter that she didn't - that wouldn't be in-character for her, not under the circumstances in which she nearly lost.
If she's gonna be a victim of karma, it should properly be in her next fight.
Not even once. Salagir is right: we should have seen the senzus coming. We had all the information, and its our own dumbass fault for not putting two and two together. They're simply too useful to not always have on oneself when they're available in the quantities that U16 has them. And nowhere, in any manual of writing or style, will you see a rule to the effect that we should have seen her put them in her mouth.
Not with Bra's new technique of Shadow Clone no Jutsu. Major techniques have always premiered in the middle of fights in Dragon Ball apropos nothing. Piccolo growing huge, the kienstructo disk, Ginyu's body-shifting ability...just far, far too many to count. Besides, it's irrelevant. Even without those techniques, Cold could never beat Bra, because Bra always has the option of victory-by-ring-out. Shadow Clone no Jutsu just gives Bra a different way to win, but without it, Bra wins as soon as she decides she wants to win.
Not with Cold "grabbing the idiot ball", as some have claimed. Not once has Cold done anything to suggest that he's more savvy that Frieza.
Where does the plot bend for Bra?
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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Aug 29, 2016 17:41:33 GMT
Keep in mind that without Bra's fight with Cold, she is significantly behind most other major characters in terms of both page count and panel count. After this fight concludes she is likely to drop back down again. Eh, as the one who did that panel count thing, Bra consistently hovered around top 5 for a long time. The only times she really ever dropped down out of that position was because she's in the later half of the brackets, so other prominent characters get their fights in first. If you're going to say "remove her fight with Cold and she falls down the rankings" then you'd also have to be fair and remove other battles like Buu's fight with Gotenks, Goku's fight with Frieza, Vegeta vs Kakarot, and such from the overall count.
I actually kept tabs on what the panel rankings looked like during the beginning of each new round, and Bra was top 3 both of them.
Top 5 at round 2 -Vegito (161) -Broly (115) -Bra (103) -Goku (102) -Buu (94)
Top 5 at round 3 -Buu (221) -Vegito (214) -Bra (183) -Goku (163) -Vegeta (162)
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 29, 2016 18:06:47 GMT
Thing is, I haven't seen it happen until this fight with Cold. Both her fight with Eleim and her fight with Zangya were forgone conclusions. "Getting away" with Zangya isn't subverting a karma backlash because she hadn't done anything yet to deserve one, whereas verses Eleim she was in control of the situation throughout the entire fight, and didn't once underestimate him (she is surprised by him a few times, but that's not the same thing) or let her pride or arrogance get in the way of her victory: she avoids rather than trying to tank his blasts, attempts to take off her weighted clothes as soon as they are obviously putting her victory at risk, and when push comes to shove wins by ring-out rather than risk herself or the crowd. Sure, she acts like an prick the whole time, but she is still taking the fight as seriously as the situation warrants. Her fight with Cold is the first time she let her arrogance go to her head. Yes, it nearly cost her her life. No, she doesn't seem to have learned anything from it. No, it doesn't matter that she didn't - that wouldn't be in-character for her, not under the circumstances in which she nearly lost. First of all, (for everyone included in this chain) the term "karma backlash" is somewhat misleading. We're not talking about Bra having something bad happen to her because she did something bad to someone else. We're talking about consequences happening from failing. When Bra fails, does she suffer the consequences of her failure? I've never seen evidence to suggest that she does. Secondly, it's been mentioned many times that the three instances where Bra failed but received no consequence was her fight with Buu, Zangya and Cold. You've already said you don't count Zangya, even though I do, I'll skip her and come back to Cold. With Buu, Bra went ssj2 despite Vegetto's warnings and lost control. Because of that Buu should've either absorbed Broly as a consequence, or released his rage on her and the now weakned u16 fighters. Sadly, the plot said "nope" to both of those happening. Like opiomorph said, it's fine if it happens every now and then, but for Bra it happens constantly. Not even once. Salagir is right: we should have seen the senzus coming. We had all the information, and its our own dumbass fault for not putting two and two together. No, we did not have all the infomration. We knew Piccolo had senzus, and that was it. Predicting Bra kept some up her glove would be like predicting Buu secretly stole some senzus when no one was looking and gave some to Cell, or predicting that Vegetto suddenly changed his mind and kept some on him, or predicting that Goku went back to u18 when no one was looking and got some senzus for their team. Sure, all of this stuff COULD'VE happened as all the tools for them happening are there, but in a story, that doesn't give it the right to happen offscreen and then be revealed in the middle of drama. There is never the slightest hint that Bra keeps beans on her person, and Salagir expecting us to accept that is nonsense, especially when it's in a tournament setting where beans shouldn't be a factor in mid combat anyway, since they grossly destroy all sense of tension. Even more especially since Salagir was willing to bend the laws of physics to say that Bra put the beans in her mouth with a broken body and no one saw her do it under intense gravity.
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Post by Lord Rime on Aug 29, 2016 19:13:40 GMT
It's not "the plot" when it's within character. Vegito himself is left wondering if Buu ever seriously wanted to absorb Broly, or if he just wanted to see Vegito in action personally.
And badly injured both Gohan and Vegito, leaving her in a Blue Screen mode unable to act until Gohan snapped her out of it, and in any event none of the three of them were in a condition to oppose Buu anymore - he only didn't get Broly because the Vargas/Namekians finally transported him away. That is a fight that Bra lost and required outside help to survive/complete. I don't see your point, since there is an immediate consequence, you simply chose to gloss over it.
Now, Bra does not seem to be permanently affected by or learned anything from said consequence, but I do not feel that Bra is somehow lessened as a character because of it, and there is a difference between "no consequence" and "not learning from consequence".
Incomplete. We knew that U16 has an entire planet dedicated to growing them, and that Vegito requires handfuls of them at a time to survive. We know that short of an innate healing ability they're the best thing for recovering from injuries. Deducing that someone from U16 would carry them on them at all times required no mighty leap of logic so much as outside-the-box thinking, "the box" being the general tendencies of Dragon Ball that we've seen for twenty-plus years.
In the specific case of Bra, as you (so rightly) pointed out, we'd seen previously that in a crisis she is willing to go against "pride" or "honor" or even "safety" to try and grab a win: agaisnt Buu where she went SSj 2 rather than risk death; against Eleim where she beat him by ring-out rather than attempted any other tactic (cutting off his arm, crushing the device, transporting just the device away, etc., etc.). Vegito's reaction to Zangya even reinforces the idea that she never really suffers consequences for failing to live up to the standards even he sets for her.
It actually, absolutely does (and you emphatically have your genres mixed up if you think that Multiverse is a drama). It's one of those twists that you can't predict beforehand but which in hindsight is obvious. Ever seen Hot Fuzz? It requires no logic to realize that Timothy Dalton's character is the villain. It would take an exceptionally clever person to realize that actually it's the entire town council, not simply him. That the police chief is in on it, and is actually the leader, would require not merely cleverness but outright paranoia. But most importantly of all, there is no hint of the council's true motivation for everything they are doing, but once it is revealed, it becomes obvious in subsequent watches.
The game Knights of the Old Republic provides a similar twist. Halfway through the game it is revealed that you are the Sith Lord Darth Revan. There is no way to realize this ahead of time, but the cutscene that reveals it includes flashbacks to previous conversations where people had all but said to your face "you are Revan", you simply didn't have the context to realize it. It is widely considered to be one of the greatest plot twists in video game history.
Many people complain that while Ender's Game is a fantastic work of Science Fiction, they can't read it twice. The twist pulled at the end is directly alluded to by several characters, notably Hyrum Graff, who more or less directly state what's really going on, but without knowing what the characters know the reader cannot realize it except as a result of wild guessing.
Then there's the twists that have zero allusions at all, or even are ostensibly directly denied by the extant work, but which are still considered fantastic. From Dusk Till Dawn, at exactly the halfway point, switches from a crime thriller to a vampire survival horror with no build-up or hints whatsoever. It is outright impossible to realize that Vader is Luke's father, particularly given Obi-wan's explanation of Vader and Anakin as two separate people in Episode IV (yes, we subsequently know that he's being poetic, but that's not possible to know prior to the reveal). It is impossible to know anything about who Rail Tracer really is in Baccano!, especially since we are led to believe that he has died prior to his reveal (and we knew nothing about him beforehand that would suggest that he could survive the situation he was in...indeed, we knew nothing about him at all). Would you have been able to predict that Jim Phelps, main character of the original TV show, was alive in Mission Impossible, and more, that he was the villain? Realizing that Hans is the villain of Frozen is possible, but relies on a viewer's understanding of tropes rather than any of Hans' actions in the film itself, not to mention a hefty dose of paranoia, and even then most people miss it.
For any example you care to give of plot twists that are alluded to, I will be able to find an example of a plot twist that isn't, but which is nevertheless still considered great. It's not about "rights" (and that's a bizarre concept anyway - the author that the "right" to do whatever he wants in his story for any reason or no reason, the reader has the "right" to read it or not read it for any reason or no reason, and that is the exact totality of the "rights" of author or reader), it's about authorial preference and the tone of the story that said author is trying to tell. An author is only required to be able to justify a plot twist after the fact (and sometimes not even then), he is never required to build up to it beforehand unless he wants you to be able to put it together yourself (usually a mystery novel) - but not every author wants that, and not every story benefits from it anyway.
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Post by Jaquan on Aug 29, 2016 19:41:54 GMT
I have to agree our definitions of consequences are different. For one I barely count things they revert with Dragon Balls since no one even characters involved didn't consider them as such. Things like death or destruction as swept aside since all they need is their wish granting Dragon (not to mention the plot bends and twists to make sure they do exactly what they need. Krillin and Chiaotzu died second time and can't be wished back? Namek Dragon Balls have no such limit. Earth got destroyed and all human died? Nameks generously upgraded their Balls to do multiple ressurections even though it's very unlikely it would actually HELP THEM). Vegeta's beatdown... I atribute that one less as a consequence (not too dire anyway as he usually lives after that) but rather Tori reusing the same plot over and over (Simply put everyone buys time for the main hero to arrive and save the day. And sadly Geets is not that hero.
Now to discuss Bra's misdeeds and supposed lack of consequences for it.
Let's start with Biggest offender - Zen Buu figtht and her unfortunate transformation in SSJ 2. Yes at first it seems that plot bends to protect Bra and her family form consequences but let me ask few questions. Was Zen Buu truly and devotedly trying to absorb Broly? He clearly should have idea that Broly can be sent back at any moment. And he clearly outclassed Vegetto at this point in the story. In fact Vegetto was in enough troubles to clearly signal it to his children. Yet he chose to have fun with them even though he could grab Broly if he truly wanted that. And what was the state of the battle when Bra went SSJ2? THEY WERE LOSING. They would have lost whether or not she went SSJ2. In fact I dare to say her doing so kept Buu's interest bit longer than normally. And we as readers learned important fact about Bra. She can't control her power above regular Super Sayian. And as I said I don't think there was even remotely big threat of Buu absorbing Broly. He seemed to aim more at having some "fun" with Vegetto and his family with Absorbing Broly being more of an added bonus he didn't really care for. I also lack to see real threat of him attacking U16. If he did so he would be disqualified and if he tried to "take control" he would be mostly contained by Gast and sent back anyway. As such this act would threaten his sole reason to participate in tournament - to have fun fighting someone who could pose some challenge. And it matches Buu's later actions as we saw later. His attempt of taking over tournament was more of a Tantrum when he lost a chance for rematch with Vegetto (who so far seems to be the only one who could remotely challenge him). He gave various gifts to "underdogs" in order to make matches more exciting without actually tipping the scales. Take note that so far not a single match where only one side received Buu's gift ended with that side winning. So as I say there really wasn't much consequence to be had during that battle. (Kinda Similar to Trunks losing to Cell, no consequences since Cell had different plans).
Now the battle with Zangya... Kinda tricky but did Bra really fail this test? While Vegetto mentioned not killing Zangya he clearly stated that she will only fail if she does not do her best to control herself. He also clearly said that she is to "end it with one strike without unneeded violence". And what did Bra do here? Yes she got angry but unlike canon examples she... Used Kiai. Even enraged she still held back as much as she could and used Kiai. When Goku got angry in DB/Z he went on pummeling his foe as seen with King Piccolo or Freeza. Same with Gohan and in DBM Uub literally VAPORIZED Tidar when the latter cut of his arm. And Bra even taunted by Zangya who brought up Pan's death just used Kiai. No unneeded violence. No Torture. She just went in and settled it in one strike. Zangya died not because Bra didn't try. She died because the difference was just that big. Given these circumstances Bra did her best, regretted the fact she killed Zangya and passed Vegetto's test (though to be honest it was easy test to begin with). Why there should be consequences there?
And lastly battle with Cold. Will I surprise you if I say there are consequences? Even if Bra doesn't acknowledge them as such she did reveal not one but two valuable pieces of information about herself and her fighting style. That she carries Senzu with her and that she have quite wide array of techniques under her belt. Considering that in such tournament knowing your opponent is half the battle (Kinda like what Piccolo and later Frost said in DBS) she just freely increased her opponent chances. That by itself is a consequence of that bet which in turn may lead to bigger consequences in the future.
As of her foul language it's not an issue for me since it's just ignored by her universe because they assume she will grow out of it. Even Goten and Trunks who she mocks the most ignore it. As of the rest... I doubt they really expect anything better from spoiled brat.
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Post by Lord Rime on Aug 29, 2016 19:49:20 GMT
Take note that so far not a single match where only one side received Buu's gift ended with that side winning. Technically there was one - Uub verses Majin Buu. Of course, Zen Buu gave tips and tricks to both of them, so that's really only half a victory. As well, Uub doesn't win because of what Zen Buu showed him, but rather because of his own ring-out idea (conversely, Majin Buu doesn't lose precisely because of Zen Buu's advice about the rules preventing him from being tricked...so maybe that should count as 1 full victory after all).
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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Aug 29, 2016 19:59:34 GMT
I don't buy that "She did her best" excuse. The page after killing Zangya, Gohan tells her that Bojack doesn't care about Zangya and killed him in their universe. Bra's response was basically "Why didn't you tell me sooner!", and there's not many ways I can take that other than Bra thinking that information would have changed the result of the match, that she could have left her alive if she really wanted to.
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Post by Jaquan on Aug 29, 2016 20:00:59 GMT
Take note that so far not a single match where only one side received Buu's gift ended with that side winning. Technically there was one - Uub verses Majin Buu. Of course, Zen Buu gave tips and tricks to both of them, so that's really only half a victory. As well, Uub doesn't win because of what Zen Buu showed him, but rather because of his own ring-out idea (conversely, Majin Buu doesn't lose precisely because of Zen Buu's advice about the rules preventing him from being tricked...so maybe that should count as 1 full victory after all). I said matches where ONLY ONE side received Buu's tip/gift. That excludes Uub and Buu since they both received it. @dr. Wheelo Oh it would. She would not THINK of getting revenge by proxy thus would not invoke Vegetto's test and likely beat Zangya to death. But because she wanted to torture her she got told by her dad and... Let's look at the battle again shall we? She used Kiai. Officially the weakest form of Ki attack. She did not pummel Zangya, she did not torture. She just blasted her off the arena. Her expression shows she meant it to be non lethal and Salagir confirmed she used the minimum power she could. If that is not "trying her best" I don't know what is.
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Post by Son Pan on Aug 29, 2016 20:36:44 GMT
The character is just kind of meh. She feels too much like a dis-staffed counterpart of Vegeta/Vegetto, but nothing else going on her personality. Her arrogance gets tiresome. It reminds me of Vegeta when he got too full of himself, but at least he had shit beat out of him to shut his ass up for a little bit. I'm hoping the special really gives us more than being arrogant, angry, or an asshole. I like the idea of the character, but the execution hasn't been to my liking. So she is strong and arrogant. I get that from Vegeta, Freeza, Buu, Cell, Goku (sometimes), or Gotenks, but at least Gotenks is arrogant in a different way from the others that makes me groan or smile. If I want a compelling female character in this comic I have Pan. Her character development and problems with living up to her legacy and sort of rivalry with Uub make her more interesting. I do think U16 Bra made appreciate U18 Bra more. Not being a fighter like the rest of her family made her different type of character.
I didn't like her last fight. I wish more time was dedicated to their close up fight and less time had been spent on the ki exchange. For the most part I felt like the fight was wasted. The senzu twist did bother me, but only because I felt it wasn't needed. Cold didn't beat Bra to near death to get to that point. All this new techniques she pulled out could have been used sooner than they were instead of doing ki exchange. Cold displayed nothing really unique either, not even Death Beam, just generic ki blasts when he got serious. Re-reading the fight after it was done I found it mostly boring and wished the bet thing hadn't happened at all so we could progressed the story along faster.
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Post by animeality on Sept 28, 2016 19:34:59 GMT
To me she's just a fusion of Goku and Vegeta's negative traits. I think she would be better-received if we didn't have moments of her complaining about her siblings, and even calling Vegito a "dickhead." To me she's basically a female Vegeta, arrogant, abrasive, an all around asshole with skills to back up her words. Someone pointed out to me once that Bra doesn't really have the excuse that Vegeta does of having lived on battlefields and under the thumb of Frieza; that Bra grew up with a loving family and home and should be compassionate like Trunks. Maybe. Again, if not for her constantly calling her siblings stupid and Vegito a dickhead I still say she's basically Vegeta, and Bulma, who was already a crabby, selfish person to a degree.
I think the hatred of Bra has grown to comical levels. I think that spawned from Salagir trying and perhaps failing to defend her. I really don't think she's so bad to the point that she's "the worst Mary Sue ever and total cancer" to the comic. But I do agree that her fight with Cold was a wasted opportunity to have her develop some humility. If your dad is the strongest person ever and you've grown up knowing that you're practically destined for similar greatness, I could see a narcissistic arrogance growing out of that.
Anyway, I guess it's a little disappointing how she's been written so far, but this special seems like an attempt to humanize her, and I can wait to see where she'll go from here. I'm not rabid enough to hate but not crazy enough to say she's a perfectly fine character.
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Post by sardorim on Sept 28, 2016 22:20:06 GMT
Love her character as I can understand her motives, why she acts the way she does and how much depth she has as a very complex character.
I also grew up as misunderstood in school as everyone assumed I was a bad person because I rarely talked or bothered explaining the things I did as I just assumed everyone would understand my motives. Instead they assumed wrongly because I wasn't pc about how I did explain things, when I did bother, as I'm a very blunt person. That and I call out others when they're full of it.
Got me in a few scraps such as confronting bullies, despite not knowing their victims personally, thus they didn't understand why I even bothered standing up to them as they didn't bully me.
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I hope you aren't suggesting that Bra should have lost to Cold. That would just be silly and poor story telling as well as just a failed attempt to try and appease a hateful part of the fan base that would still hate Bra regardless.
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Post by ltsarge on Oct 1, 2016 15:47:04 GMT
So 1st time posting here, I'm just going to post some arguments I made on previous DBM about Bra that probably got lost in all the big comment sections since a couple of them were elaborate. Also, since the voting is locked, you could put me in the neutral camp, leaning hate. Anyways here is the 1st post dropping here, which I made specifically about the Bra fight vs Cold, detailing why I felt the fight (and thus Bra) was poorly handled. _
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Post by ltsarge on Oct 1, 2016 16:10:36 GMT
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Post by whatever on Oct 1, 2016 20:57:17 GMT
I like everything about her: Her cockiness, her stubborness, her love for what she does, her hot body.
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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 2, 2016 23:03:35 GMT
How can anyone like her? Not only that how can anyone like the Vargas? They are the reason why some characters become unlikable to begin with.
1. Bra is down right the most unlikable character thus far. Really? Senzu beans in a tournament. That just defeats the meaning of a tournament then. Its to show who is the strongest fighter. Teleports out the ring take off her weighted clothes and teleport back in. How is that even allowed? Teleport her oppenet out the ring. Most ridiculous thing i have seen.
2. Raichi. Oh god the man literally has other people fighting for him but Vargas make up a lame excuse so they can have some entertainment.
3. XXI. So the cheat code to every character? This is down right stupid. Akira Toriyama 2.0 has arrived.
This thread shouldnt be called "Opinions on U16 Bra" it should be called Do you hate Vargas because they contribute to characters we hate like Bra.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 2, 2016 23:10:13 GMT
How can anyone like her? Not only that how can anyone like the Vargas? They are the reason why some characters become unlikable to begin with. 1. Bra is down right the most unlikable character thus far. Really? Senzu beans in a tournament. That just defeats the meaning of a tournament then. Its to show who is the strongest fighter. Teleports out the ring take off her weighted clothes and teleport back in. How is that even allowed? Teleport her oppenet out the ring. Most ridiculous thing i have seen. 2. Raichi. Oh god the man literally has other people fighting for him but Vargas make up a lame excuse so they can have some entertainment. 3. XXI. So the cheat code to every character? This is down right stupid. Akira Toriyama 2.0 has arrived. This thread shouldnt be called "Opinions on U16 Bra" it should be called Do you hate Vargas because they contribute to characters we hate like Bra. I don't think most people have strong feelings about the Vargas other than "LOL stupid birds, they're basically unaware of a considerably high amount of serious stuff happening around them". I don't see how Raichi having people or solid holographic hoaxes fighting for him inherently makes him a bad character or unlikable. Could you please elaborate more on that?
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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 3, 2016 4:31:26 GMT
How can anyone like her? Not only that how can anyone like the Vargas? They are the reason why some characters become unlikable to begin with. 1. Bra is down right the most unlikable character thus far. Really? Senzu beans in a tournament. That just defeats the meaning of a tournament then. Its to show who is the strongest fighter. Teleports out the ring take off her weighted clothes and teleport back in. How is that even allowed? Teleport her oppenet out the ring. Most ridiculous thing i have seen. 2. Raichi. Oh god the man literally has other people fighting for him but Vargas make up a lame excuse so they can have some entertainment. 3. XXI. So the cheat code to every character? This is down right stupid. Akira Toriyama 2.0 has arrived. This thread shouldnt be called "Opinions on U16 Bra" it should be called Do you hate Vargas because they contribute to characters we hate like Bra. I don't think most people have strong feelings about the Vargas other than "LOL stupid birds, they're basically unaware of a considerably high amount of serious stuff happening around them". I don't see how Raichi having people or solid holographic hoaxes fighting for him inherently makes him a bad character or unlikable. Could you please elaborate more on that? It is a tournament. Even if they are holograms he is not the one fighting which simply defeats the point of a tournament (To show who is the strongest fighter).
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 3, 2016 4:53:40 GMT
How can anyone like her? Not only that how can anyone like the Vargas? They are the reason why some characters become unlikable to begin with. 1. Bra is down right the most unlikable character thus far. Really? Senzu beans in a tournament. That just defeats the meaning of a tournament then. Its to show who is the strongest fighter. Teleports out the ring take off her weighted clothes and teleport back in. How is that even allowed? Teleport her oppenet out the ring. Most ridiculous thing i have seen. 2. Raichi. Oh god the man literally has other people fighting for him but Vargas make up a lame excuse so they can have some entertainment. 3. XXI. So the cheat code to every character? This is down right stupid. Akira Toriyama 2.0 has arrived. This thread shouldnt be called "Opinions on U16 Bra" it should be called Do you hate Vargas because they contribute to characters we hate like Bra. I don't really have any strong opinions on the Vargas. I don't mind the format of their tournament. It different from the old World Tournament rules by allowing weapons and items to be used. As a fan of Yu Yu Hakusho and Naruto I'm more used to more chaotic tournaments and battles that use weapons and variety of techniques that have other people do fighting for them.
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