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Post by Andres on Aug 26, 2016 15:33:16 GMT
I don't think it's that consistent with her character, I think it's very hypocritical actually after preaching about how the fight was no obstacle and getting on XXI's case about using unfair tactics to win. Unless you mean she's consistently hypocritical. Yes, she is consistently hypocritical. She got on XXI's case about his unfair tactic of teleporting Vegito somewhere else, but what she did to Eleim is, for all intents and purposes, the exact same tactic. She won by ring-out in a way Eleim had no way to defend against, just as XXI won by ring-out in a way Vegito had no way to defend against. Not exactly, Rine. XXI sent Vegetto to a whole new dimension. No one knew what happened to him until he came back two hours later. For all she and Gohan knew, Vegetto was gone. She confronted him as in "what the fuck did you do to my father??". He wasn't confronting him for "cheap tactics" or for the sake of the ring-out. She confronted him out of fear of the disappearance of her father. She had no other choice with Eleim. Eleim was willing to carbonitize (TM!) everyone in the arena just to win his bout. She had no other choice. She won by the easiest way possible, by ring out. And only for 30 seconds, as she went back and picked him up. But, in contrast to XXI, Bra actually tried to fight Eleim and fought the entire match until cornered by his own stubborness. She even gave him and a wish and he STILL not believed her. Only then, she went FUCK THIS. Boom. Teleport. Kay? Stop being a dick. You lost. I will STILL GIVE YOU MY WISH. Not defending Bra, but not really comparable scenarios. XXI did it to avoid fighting the strongest fighter in the tournament and win automatically. Bra wanted to fight and fought Eleim until she was cornered in a hostage scenario, and only after he refused to believe her Dragon Wish offer.
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Post by Akroma on Aug 26, 2016 16:23:38 GMT
The problem is the balance of Bra. As in... there is none. No matter what characteristic you have, there is a negative side to that characteristic, and the less you're willing to adapt to situations, which Bra is not willing to do at all, than the more problems you will face from the negative side of your trait. As is said many times in this thread, Bra never faces the consequences of the negative sides of her character. Even when she fails, the plot helps her escape any punishment she was supposed to face. Again, Vegetto and Bulma are bad parents. I agree that senzus in gloves was nonsense, they would be smashed or lost easily (once the gloves are not tight, it would be more logical have them in her shorts). But about the rest: Salagir already stated that legendary transformation doesn't revert by "normal measures" (at will), like normal SSy. Only a great shock can cause that. Be frozen is not a shock, thus, it can make sense after all. We don't know the whole u8's history yet, something may be pushed Cold to train. Fear from Coola? Kaioshins? An eventual Bojack or Dabura? We don't know yet. u13 Vegeta going to SSy3 may make sense too. Think about it: SSy condition is bonded to an extreme stress situation. Vegeta was about to be killed, and we know that in extreme situations we can do things that normally we would never do. I already saw a dude pushing up a 2 tons car ALONE to save his daughter who was under it, under water. And we know that u18 Vegeta only did not achieved SSy3 because Akira totally ignores logic. And Vegeta did not lost to #18 with SSy2, he was SSy1. Akira did this the entire Dragon Ball, since Classic until end of Z. And now in Super. Akira is the guy who don't gives a fuck to logic.
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 26, 2016 18:46:18 GMT
Again, Vegetto and Bulma are bad parents. You missed the point completely. I'm not talking about Bra needing to be punished by some physical entity. Life, in itself, punishes people who refuse to adapt because there is no one Personality trait that can handle every situation. Because THE PLOT OF THE STORY is allowing Bra to escape situations she should rightfully be punished for, there is no actual drama for her. We don't know the whole u8's history yet, something may be pushed Cold to train. Fear from Coola? Kaioshins? An eventual Bojack or Dabura? We don't know yet. This, again, ties into introducing Random elements in the middle of drama and then trying to explain them afterwards. If you want to tell a coherent story, you need to introduce some hint of the element prior, otherwise you're just making stuff up as you go along. Notice how we saw Cell thinking about how everyone was underestimating him? It was perfectly fine when it was revealed he was much stronger than his old self. Cold had no hint of going into augmentation form, and there was no hint that a second one even existed. Salagir might as well claim humans can go super saiyan now and explain how it happens later. u13 Vegeta going to SSy3 may make sense too. Think about it: SSy condition is bonded to an extreme stress situation. Vegeta was about to be killed, and we know that in extreme situations we can do things that normally we would never do. I already saw a dude pushing up a 2 tons car ALONE to save his daughter who was under it, under water. And we know that u18 Vegeta only did not achieved SSy3 because Akira totally ignores logic. And Vegeta did not lost to #18 with SSy2, he was SSy1. No... it isn't. There is no evidence of that. Goku trained, at his leisure, to eventually become a SSJ3. Gotenks trained, at his leisure, to eventually become ssj3. I've no doubt people can do extraordinary things under stress, but it was stated in dragon ball canon that reaching various super saiyan stats does not depend on pure training or raw anger alone. Goku and Gohan used the pain of loss and Vegeta used the pain of accepting his failure to become ssj1. Gohan used hidden potential and his love of life to become ssj2, not just pure rage. Again, Vegeta tried to become a ssj2 through pure raw anger, and it failed. As someone else stated long ago in the DBM comments, if super saiyan states were reliant on throwing a fit of rage from the stress of wanting to become stronger, Vegeta would be at ssj8 by now. Akira did this the entire Dragon Ball, since Classic until end of Z. And now in Super. Akira is the guy who don't gives a fuck to logic. I fail to see how this is relevant. You stated that Salagir's writing cared more about being realistic than passion and I rebutted with evidence that he ignores realism to get his story across. This point about Akira doing it doesn't help your argument at all.
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Post by Lord Rime on Aug 26, 2016 18:47:29 GMT
She had no other choice with Eleim. Eleim was willing to carbonitize (TM!) everyone in the arena just to win his bout. She had no other choice. Coulda' cut off his hand, or teleported him 100 ly away and told him that she'd only bring him back if he removed the carbonite weapon and fought "fairly" (whatever that's supposed to mean), otherwise she'd leave him there and just win via ring-out.
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Post by Andres on Aug 26, 2016 18:56:02 GMT
She had no other choice with Eleim. Eleim was willing to carbonitize (TM!) everyone in the arena just to win his bout. She had no other choice. Coulda' cut off his hand, or teleported him 100 ly away and told him that she'd only bring him back if he removed the carbonite weapon and fought "fairly" (whatever that's supposed to mean), otherwise she'd leave him there and just win via ring-out. But what if he said no? (as was his default answer). She was also subject to the 30 seconds ring-out. If he took more than 30 seconds to say "Ok, no carbonite", then she would've been disqualified as well. She was being a good sport until Eleim turned into a dick. And then, Bra happened. She out-dicked the dick.
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Post by Ashanark on Aug 26, 2016 20:15:35 GMT
And then, Bra happened. She out-dicked the dick. Impressive she could do that. You know, what with her being a girl and all.[/immaturity] EDIT: I think that it wasn't wrong for Bra to ring-out Eleim like that. It was still a dirty trick, but Eleim was being unreasonable. I wouldn't be surprised if she got the idea of ring-out win from XXI, though. (If not, she got it from Vegito vs. Broly.)
I agree with Wheelo that it will be nice to just not see Bra for a while. When we get to Gast vs. Raichi, it'll mean we'll have four more fights before we see Bra again, which will hopefully give the issue a lot of time to cool down.
In the meantime:When I see Bra making faces like these, I get the feeling that we're not supposed to think she's a good person. Or at least that there's something very wrong about her.
EDIT 2: If anything, having Asura take over has lessened Bra's creepiness factor because he draws her a lot better than anyone else ever did (even Gogeta Jr.)
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Post by Archon on Aug 26, 2016 20:17:53 GMT
Coulda' cut off his hand, or teleported him 100 ly away and told him that she'd only bring him back if he removed the carbonite weapon and fought "fairly" (whatever that's supposed to mean), otherwise she'd leave him there and just win via ring-out. But what if he said no? (as was his default answer). She was also subject to the 30 seconds ring-out. If he took more than 30 seconds to say "Ok, no carbonite", then she would've been disqualified as well. She was being a good sport until Eleim turned into a dick. And then, Bra happened. She out-dicked the dick. All I gained from reading this was that Bra now has a dick....wait...wut? XP
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Post by Akroma on Aug 27, 2016 1:43:03 GMT
Again, Vegetto and Bulma are bad parents. You missed the point completely. I'm not talking about Bra needing to be punished by some physical entity. Life, in itself, punishes people who refuse to adapt because there is no one Personality trait that can handle every situation. Because THE PLOT OF THE STORY is allowing Bra to escape situations she should rightfully be punished for, there is no actual drama for her. The only situation I can remember her "escaping" was against Zangya, but this was already extremely discussed. Zangya died by her own fault. If she did not had opened her big mouth, Bra would just knock out her with one single blow. But Zangya PROVOKED. Now against Cold, I also did not like the senzu trick, but this is not plot armor, in a real situation she could hide senzus too. And against how she treats who is weaker than her, well, this is a trait that will be corrected only when she faces an opponent who can make her feel useless (Gast). Salagir knows that training is not usual amongst the frost demons, so, obviously something changed Cold's idea, probably an enemy stronger than a Super Saiyan. And this should be explained in some special from that universe. But my bet goes to Bojack, once Goku died in Namek and Bojack is an experiment developed to defeat the frost demons... Probably they clashed. Goku went to SSy2 by training, and Gohan went to SSy2 by anger. It seems only SSy1 requires anger to awaken, the other levels can be reached by anger OR training. Goku probably achieved SSy3 before Vegeta because he did not have the need to sleep or eat, then he could just train 24 hours. But after years after Buu's saga, by logic, Vegeta should have achieved SSy3 too, or awaken it against Beerus. But in current Super, level 3 is nothing, besides, it seems Akira for some reason simply want not release SSy3 to Vegeta, despite so many fans desires it. Every writer does this in major or minor scale. But my point is: it's nonsense accept this from Akira without complain, but complain about Salagir.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 2:22:54 GMT
I was so pissed to find out Vegeta did not go Super Saiyan 3 against Beerus. It was so perfect lol. Just look:
The context that Vegeta was supposedly stronger than Goku during this scene would have made it even better.
I think the reason people would rather complain about this to Salagir rather than Akira is simple; we get to do it live. Dragon Ball Z ended over 15 years ago, complaining about things to Akira won't do any good. It's more beneficial to complain about things we don't like to Salagir as we can do it in a comments section he set up knowing there's a good chance he will read and acknowledge it. That benefit is not there complaining to Akira. Believe me though, Akira gets enough complains
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 27, 2016 4:34:24 GMT
The only situation I can remember her "escaping" was against Zangya, but this was already extremely discussed. Zangya died by her own fault. If she did not had opened her big mouth, Bra would just knock out her with one single blow. But Zangya PROVOKED. Now against Cold, I also did not like the senzu trick, but this is not plot armor, in a real situation she could hide senzus too. And against how she treats who is weaker than her, well, this is a trait that will be corrected only when she faces an opponent who can make her feel useless (Gast). Again, the point is completely dodged here. Listen to my point. When Bra messes up, as defined by the plot, she does not suffer consequences. I, and others, gave several examples in earlier posts other than Zangya, including going ssj2 against Buu but not having Buu absorb Broly nor exact revenge, and getting outsmarted and out fought by Cold, only to have beans and "advanced techniques" suddenly appear in the narrative. Salagir knows that training is not usual amongst the frost demons, so, obviously something changed Cold's idea, probably an enemy stronger than a Super Saiyan. And this should be explained in some special from that universe. But my bet goes to Bojack, once Goku died in Namek and Bojack is an experiment developed to defeat the frost demons... Probably they clashed. Am I not being clear with my points? I specifically said it's bad storytelling to try and explain elements AFTER you've introduced them in the middle of drama. You're not refuting this point, you're just stating how Salagir could maybe explain it later. Goku went to SSy2 by training, and Gohan went to SSy2 by anger. It seems only SSy1 requires anger to awaken, the other levels can be reached by anger OR training. Goku probably achieved SSy3 before Vegeta because he did not have the need to sleep or eat, then he could just train 24 hours. But after years after Buu's saga, by logic, Vegeta should have achieved SSy3 too, or awaken it against Beerus. But in current Super, level 3 is nothing, besides, it seems Akira for some reason simply want not release SSy3 to Vegeta, despite so many fans desires it. Um... we don't know how Goku went SSj2. It was never shown. To be fair, we never saw how Goku or Gotenks went ssj3 either, something I neglected in my original point. I don't know why you're going into a long explanation about how u18 Vegeta could go ssj3. Let me once again state my point... there is no evidence suggesting a person can reach ssj3 simply by getting upset that they're not strong enough. Salagir made that up because he wanted something cool to happen in his story. If you have some evidence against this point, I will gladly listen to it. Every writer does this in major or minor scale. But my point is: it's nonsense accept this from Akira without complain, but complain about Salagir. But I WASN'T complaining about it. You stated that Salagir cares more about a realistic story than about passion. I stated that there are plenty of examples showing he doesn't care about realism. I never complained about the realism, I said it wasn't his priority. In my original post, I even said " that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly shows he can't be defended with 'it's okay because he's trying to make it realistic.'" Every point I've made is getting derailed. Stick to the arguments being made.
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Post by Akroma on Aug 27, 2016 22:18:51 GMT
Consequences and justice not always come immediately. So many people spend years in criminal, harming tons of other people, and face punishment very later (or in minor amount when compared to the damage they did). Yes, life is unfair. Although in Bra's case, I see her more like reckless than evilness. She don't needs punishment, she needs discipline and some nobleness (my opinion).
It is Salagir history, so, Salagir's style. You are not forced to read.
Once Goku achieved SSy2 and 3 being dead, the only explanation is by training. And I guess Gotenks case was like that: we already know that fusions possesses high potential to pull techniques from ass (Gotenks's ghosts, Vegetto's spirit sword, Gogeta's souls punisher), plus, Goku said to the boys when showing SSy3 "push hard to find it". Gotenks could just had followed the tip.
u13 Vegeta, about to be killed, could had thought the same and "pushed hard from his deep", once he already knew that there are a third level.
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 28, 2016 0:11:15 GMT
Consequences and justice not always come immediately. So many people spend years in criminal, harming tons of other people, and face punishment very later (or in minor amount when compared to the damage they did). Yes, life is unfair. Although in Bra's case, I see her more like reckless than evilness. She don't needs punishment, she needs discipline and some nobleness (my opinion). You're talking about criminals getting away with crimes, which is not what I'm referring to. I'm not talking about life, I'm talking about plot. A person doing bad things is not the same as a character failing. It's not simply Bra being punished for doing something bad. This a very basic element of story telling. It's called "conflict." If Bra does something that, from the plot's point of view, is seen as a mistake, then the plot should punish her for it. Otherwise, there is no conflict for the character because they can make as many mistakes as they want, and the plot will make everything okay for them. If I were reading a story about a serial killer getting away with murder, I wouldn't complain just because he got away with it. I would complain if the serial killer made a bunch of mistakes, but the story says he gets away with it anyway for convenience's sake. It is Salagir history, so, Salagir's style. You are not forced to read. If that's going to be your go to response, then I don't know why you bothered responding at all. Someone appealing to their own style does not make them free of criticism. And, once again, you didn't address the point. I'm starting to think I'm being flat out ignored. Once Goku achieved SSy2 and 3 being dead, the only explanation is by training. And I guess Gotenks case was like that: we already know that fusions possesses high potential to pull techniques from ass (Gotenks's ghosts, Vegetto's spirit sword, Gogeta's souls punisher), plus, Goku said to the boys when showing SSy3 "push hard to find it". Gotenks could just had followed the tip. u13 Vegeta, about to be killed, could had thought the same and "pushed hard from his deep", once he already knew that there are a third level. You're speaking in "could'ves" and "maybes." If I wanted to be light hearted, I'd call it circumstantial evidence at best. If I were being strict, I'd basically say that you're making stuff up. You have presented no evidence that U13 Vegeta's ssj3 transformation is legit, only possible explanations that may exist with no evidence pointing to them. You're in head canon territory, and yoursupport for it is flimsy at best. Also, you're manipulating diction to say what you want it to. "Push hard" could mean so many things in that regard. I suppose a saiyan could become an ssj3 just from having constipation.
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Post by Akroma on Aug 28, 2016 5:20:11 GMT
Ok, if you want to treat Bra like a villain or dislike her because this or that, go ahead, it is your choice. I'm tired of going in circles with you. I already explained the same thing a ton of times, I put the food into your mouth but you will believe in what you want to believe. People are crucifying Bra only for the sake of throw someone to the lions. People just want to have someone to condemn and fuck the background involved. Freeza, Cooler, Cold, Bojack, Cell, Dabura, Buu, these are examples of persons who CHOOSED the evil side, these guys really deserve the treatment that Gast delivers to his enemies. But not Bra. Bra's case is more complex than just "a simple cocky and arrogant bitch", there is a background involved. The girl is reckless and undisciplined, but definitely she is not evil. She only needs a good master and plus, as I already said a ton of times, she is still a teen, still an imature person.
But again, if you want to treat her like a villain, go ahead, it is your choice.
And about SSy, for the last time too, once Goku achieved SSy2 and 3 being dead, the only explanation is by training. Or don't you think by yourself? And if you don't accept the explanation I gave about u13 Vegeta went SSy3, then think it was because of Salagir's will. Salagir's history, Salagir's rules. End. I got tired of your sarcasm too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2016 5:34:25 GMT
Ok, if you want to treat Bra like a villain or dislike her because this or that, go ahead, it is your choice. I'm tired of going in circles with you. I already explained the same thing a ton of times, I put the food into your mouth but you will believe in what you want to believe. People are crucifying Bra only for the sake of throw someone to the lions. People just want to have someone to condemn and fuck the background involved. Freeza, Cooler, Cold, Bojack, Cell, Dabura, Buu, these are examples of persons who CHOOSED the evil side, these guys really deserve the treatment that Gast delivers to his enemies. But not Bra. Bra's case is more complex than just "a simple cocky and arrogant bitch", there is a background involved. The girl is reckless and undisciplined, but definitely she is not evil. She only needs a good master and plus, as I already said a ton of times, she is still a teen, still an imature person. But again, if you want to treat her like a villain, go ahead, it is your choice. And about SSy, for the last time too, once Goku achieved SSy2 and 3 being dead, the only explanation is by training. Or don't you think by yourself? And if you don't accept the explanation I gave about u13 Vegeta went SSy3, then think it was because of Salagir's will. Salagir's history, Salagir's rules. End. I got tired of your sarcasm too. I don't think anybody here's considering her a villain. I'm not quite sure who put you under that impression but that's not the case.
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 28, 2016 13:15:38 GMT
Ok, if you want to treat Bra like a villain or dislike her because this or that, go ahead, it is your choice. I'm tired of going in circles with you. I already explained the same thing a ton of times, I put the food into your mouth but you will believe in what you want to believe. People are crucifying Bra only for the sake of throw someone to the lions. People just want to have someone to condemn and fuck the background involved. Freeza, Cooler, Cold, Bojack, Cell, Dabura, Buu, these are examples of persons who CHOOSED the evil side, these guys really deserve the treatment that Gast delivers to his enemies. But not Bra. Bra's case is more complex than just "a simple cocky and arrogant bitch", there is a background involved. The girl is reckless and undisciplined, but definitely she is not evil. She only needs a good master and plus, as I already said a ton of times, she is still a teen, still an imature person. But again, if you want to treat her like a villain, go ahead, it is your choice. And about SSy, for the last time too, once Goku achieved SSy2 and 3 being dead, the only explanation is by training. Or don't you think by yourself? And if you don't accept the explanation I gave about u13 Vegeta went SSy3, then think it was because of Salagir's will. Salagir's history, Salagir's rules. End. I got tired of your sarcasm too. A villain? I can't even with you. When did we start talking about Bra being a villain? Did I ever say she was a villain? Did I ever say her being a villain is a bad thing? My original point was that Bra's character lacks balance and tension. Whenever she fails, the plot extinguishes all consequences. This has nothing to do with her being a villain, or any of the other stuff you've been talking about. I'm perfectly willing to listen to people who enjoy Bra's character. Shoot, I even stated that my problem isn't with Bra, it's with Salagir's story telling, but since this argument has started you've been having a completely separate conversation from the one I'm having. Every time I say something, you respond with a point that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. We're not going in circles because you keep going in Random directions. If you want people to get your side of the story, stop derailing arguments and stick to the points at hand.
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Post by Jaquan on Aug 28, 2016 22:26:42 GMT
You know... Consequences and Dragon Ball don't mix well together. Give me one - seriously ONE example of anyone in Dragon Ball suffering severe consequences of his/her action. And no Vegeta getting beaten up doesn't truly count since it doesn't even seems to affect him. Every single time the character screws up it's somehow solves itself. Vegeta allowed Cell to Reach Perfect form? No big deal, nobody even died at that very moment since Cell was intrigued by their growth and wondered if they can do better if he gives them 10 days. Goku decides to fight Freeza despite King Kai's warning not to? No big deal, nobody dies permanently (Namek Dragon Balls turns out to have no limit on revival) and Goku gets a neat shiny transformation. One may argue that Goku's misjudgment on Gohan's character resulted in his death and consider it as consequence but what exactly is this consequence? Goku earns extra privileges for dying as a hero, gets to keep his body and is allowed to train for all eternity. Yeah more like a reward I'd say... Nobody even bats an eye that he killed Guardian Deity of Northern Quadrant and even said deity holds nothing against him deciding to stay dead to keep Goku company... Even when his decision (not trying to Kill Fat Buu to allow Kids to fight on their own) led to whole earth being destroyed (and earlier all his friends dying) he still didn't suffer any consequences as he get revived and is still considered hero by the gang...
Oh yeah and I don't think anybody in DBM suffers consequences... Not even Uub who in his first battle vaporized his opponent (whose normal strength may be around Mr. Satan or at best Videl) gets rebuked for it. Seriously in DB verse as long as you're strong you can avoid any consequences
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Post by Shady Doorags on Aug 29, 2016 0:06:47 GMT
You know... Consequences and Dragon Ball don't mix well together. Give me one - seriously ONE example of anyone in Dragon Ball suffering severe consequences of his/her action. And no Vegeta getting beaten up doesn't truly count since it doesn't even seems to affect him. Every single time the character screws up it's somehow solves itself. Vegeta allowed Cell to Reach Perfect form? No big deal, nobody even died at that very moment since Cell was intrigued by their growth and wondered if they can do better if he gives them 10 days. Goku decides to fight Freeza despite King Kai's warning not to? No big deal, nobody dies permanently (Namek Dragon Balls turns out to have no limit on revival) and Goku gets a neat shiny transformation. One may argue that Goku's misjudgment on Gohan's character resulted in his death and consider it as consequence but what exactly is this consequence? Goku earns extra privileges for dying as a hero, gets to keep his body and is allowed to train for all eternity. Yeah more like a reward I'd say... Nobody even bats an eye that he killed Guardian Deity of Northern Quadrant and even said deity holds nothing against him deciding to stay dead to keep Goku company... Even when his decision (not trying to Kill Fat Buu to allow Kids to fight on their own) led to whole earth being destroyed (and earlier all his friends dying) he still didn't suffer any consequences as he get revived and is still considered hero by the gang... Oh yeah and I don't think anybody in DBM suffers consequences... Not even Uub who in his first battle vaporized his opponent (whose normal strength may be around Mr. Satan or at best Videl) gets rebuked for it. Seriously in DB verse as long as you're strong you can avoid any consequences I believe you're mistaking "not suffering a consequence" with "dealing with the consequences after" for which there is a huge difference. In regards to Bra, she rarely deals with the consequences of her failures. Some outside force usually swoops in and makes what she does irrelevant, and this usually happens immediately after the failure has happened, giving no weight to her actions. The only exception is the situation with the beans and "advanced techniques," but many who have issues with that scene are upset at the contrivance rather than the convenience. In short, fixing the consequences of an action, which Dragon Ball does, is not the same as the consequences vanishing, which is what Bra constantly goes through. Also, I disagree that Vegeta's points in time don't count because... a) Vegeta doesn't necessarily need to learn anything for a consequence of his actions to happen. b) He always showed immediate emotional change after he received a beatdown, even if he retracted later. And a quick note, some of your comments imply good things happening means there's no consequence. That's not true. You can have really good things happen and minor/major consequences.
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Post by Akroma on Aug 29, 2016 5:36:22 GMT
Not everyone face consequences in a short time after a "bad act", or even after a "good act with minor consequences", like said above me. Some people take YEARS or even DECADES to be punished. This fits in real life too, but taking Dragon Ball universe, Freeza spend HUNDREDS OF YEARS commiting hediond acts before be finally punished by Goku.
People dislike Bra because she don't face consequences (yet), and because she is not humble. Be not humble is a bad trait? Yes it is, but it is not a crime. You may not punish someone only for not being humble. Plus, Bra's lack of humility is reason enough to root for her death at the hands of a true evil guy? (Cold). This really sads me. You would correct the cockyness of your daughter by spanking her?
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Post by opiomorph on Aug 29, 2016 7:13:37 GMT
Not everyone face consequences in a short time after a "bad act", or even after a "good act with minor consequences", like said above me. Some people take YEARS or even DECADES to be punished. This fits in real life too, but taking Dragon Ball universe, Freeza spend HUNDREDS OF YEARS commiting hediond acts before be finally punished by Goku. It's a storyline set in a very tight timeframe of a couple days, nobody cares what might happen years down the line. Even if we followed your train of thought, then it only means that she's long overdue for a painful life lesson. Yes, you can. It's actually Storytelling 101 to punish your character whenever it goes wild with their crippling character flaw. Letting it repeatedly walk away scott free without any consequences, robs the character of any potential growth it might experience and leads to accusations of it being a Creators Pet, not completely unfounded ones, I might add... This isn't an "Eviler that thou" dick waving contest. It's Storytelling 101 - a character pays for hubris and by their very nature - villains are good teachers, even if their lessons are painful. But of course, pain is the best teacher there is. I'm not of course advocating going full ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA!! on a kid, but a good "educational" swat or three on the bum never killed anyone, didn't kill me, at least.
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Post by Lord Rime on Aug 29, 2016 13:53:45 GMT
Only if they're the protagonist and so are important enough to merit that sort of attention. Bra isn't, however, the protagonist of Multiverse, she's a secondary character. As well, Multiverse is only half over, so even if she is intended to be the protagonist, she shouldn't have this kind of punishment yet. Such an event is usually saved for about two-thirds to three-quarters of the way through the story.
For example, in Julius Caesar, Brutus (the main character despite the title) doesn't suffer anything remotely resembling consequences for his actions and his fatal flaw of Pride until the very end of Act III, when Marc Antony whips the Romans up into a furor over Caesar's death. Given that in a Shakespearean play Act IV is always a short act in terms of length, this means that his comeuppance doesn't even begin until more than three-fifths of the way through the play.
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