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Post by mbg on Dec 15, 2016 19:24:00 GMT
Honestly, the chief problem with an Android 13verse is that Android 13 is kinda... horribly bland. It's part of why I liked that idea a few pages back of a Geroverse (hey, contradicting my earlier post, maybe he just wants to kill some more Gokus), because it means that 13 wouldn't be forced to carry a whole universe with his personality of "is strong", "follows Gero's orders", and "trucker hat?", instead making him into muscle for Gero. Possibly with a rivalry with that world's Imperfect Cell added on - Gero decided to just destroy 17 and 18 rather than risk them anymore, so now poor ol' Cell is permanently stuck in half-shift and way behind the big blue brute, and he hates it.
Yeah, they probably wouldn't last long, but honestly, I don't mind. Some of the best fights in DBM have been between relative weaklings.
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Post by Son Pan on Dec 15, 2016 21:36:17 GMT
Honestly, the chief problem with an Android 13verse is that Android 13 is kinda... horribly bland. It's part of why I liked that idea a few pages back of a Geroverse (hey, contradicting my earlier post, maybe he just wants to kill some more Gokus), because it means that 13 wouldn't be forced to carry a whole universe with his personality of "is strong", "follows Gero's orders", and "trucker hat?", instead making him into muscle for Gero. Possibly with a rivalry with that world's Imperfect Cell added on - Gero decided to just destroy 17 and 18 rather than risk them anymore, so now poor ol' Cell is permanently stuck in half-shift and way behind the big blue brute, and he hates it. Yeah, they probably wouldn't last long, but honestly, I don't mind. Some of the best fights in DBM have been between relative weaklings. If DBZ Abridged as taught us anything is that every DB character can be improved personality wise. What they did with Freeza and Cell was genius. They had more personality to them than they did in canon. 13 could be fixed up.
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Post by Xeno Black on Dec 17, 2016 4:57:12 GMT
Xeno Black Both of your posts are too long to be worth quoting, so I'll keep this brief. A- One tiny little change to your Zen Janemba idea, can absorption as a power and replace it with possession. Helps distinguish him from Buu while giving him a unique spin. B- DBM2 I can't help with, but I know there was a thread on the kanzenshuu forum about just that. Used to be a story on FFN too but it got deleted. If you can find the original thread, it may be helpful to you. A- Actually Janemba has both absorption and possession lol. I left him the power of absorption since Kid Buu has given Janemba ALL of his powers, with absorption being one of them. B- Thanks for letting me know about that. If I can find it, I will definitely incorporate it into my conceptual DBM2 lol.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Dec 17, 2016 5:22:58 GMT
I actually have two ideas in mind, although both are a little silly to be honest.
1. Universe where Gohan fails to save his friends from Cell, but still becomes a SSJ2 and kills him (so the only difference would be the death of all of his friends would be what sets him off), so he, the Androids (whom Bulma rebuilds), Kid Trunks and Videl are all that's left to protect his universe. 2. Universe where Mister Satan learns to use ki and becomes the most powerful fighter in his universe, actually defeats all the characters he claims to defeat, and fights villains with his daughter. So essentially he takes Goku's place. I honestly believe the guy would be pretty strong if he learned to use ki, he gets a lot of grief but he's the strongest human non-ki user alive.
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Post by Son Pan on Dec 17, 2016 6:21:35 GMT
Not so silly. I'm pretty sure a few people mentioned a universe where Satan took Goku's place or was as strong as he people believed. I'm surprised we didn't see Satan in U9. We saw Videl in U9, but not Satan. I wonder what happened there?
How come no Goten in the first universe?
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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Dec 18, 2016 3:51:55 GMT
2. Universe where Mister Satan learns to use ki and becomes the most powerful fighter in his universe, actually defeats all the characters he claims to defeat, and fights villains with his daughter. So essentially he takes Goku's place. I honestly believe the guy would be pretty strong if he learned to use ki, he gets a lot of grief but he's the strongest human non-ki user alive.Yajirobe holds that title, he would tear Mr. Satan apart.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Dec 18, 2016 5:02:24 GMT
2. Universe where Mister Satan learns to use ki and becomes the most powerful fighter in his universe, actually defeats all the characters he claims to defeat, and fights villains with his daughter. So essentially he takes Goku's place. I honestly believe the guy would be pretty strong if he learned to use ki, he gets a lot of grief but he's the strongest human non-ki user alive.Yajirobe holds that title, he would tear Mr. Satan apart.
I don't agree with you. There's no way to compare their power since they've never even fought similar opponents. Besides that I think you're forgetting Mister Satan has a lot more potential than people give him credit for, he's considered the world's martial arts champion and has obviously beaten several skilled fighters to get that title. Yajirobe doesn't even enjoy fighting and doesn't seem to train nearly as often. But to avoid going off topic I can't really see a universe where Yajirobe would learn ki anyway, he's too lazy for that. Mr. Satan at least enjoys the chance to fight people.
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Post by Dr. Wheelo on Dec 18, 2016 7:26:02 GMT
Yajirobe holds that title, he would tear Mr. Satan apart.
I don't agree with you. There's no way to compare their power since they've never even fought similar opponents. Besides that I think you're forgetting Mister Satan has a lot more potential than people give him credit for, he's considered the world's martial arts champion and has obviously beaten several skilled fighters to get that title. Yajirobe doesn't even enjoy fighting and doesn't seem to train nearly as often. But to avoid going off topic I can't really see a universe where Yajirobe would learn ki anyway, he's too lazy for that. Mr. Satan at least enjoys the chance to fight people. Mr. Satan only became Champion because all of the good fighters left after the 23rd tournament, the tournament announcer flat out said the tournaments got boring because all of the talented participants left. If Mr. Satan was around in the early days of Dragon Ball he would have never gotten by, he'd be on the level of the lesser Red Ribbon Generals and Commanders at best. Mr. Satan wouldn't even rank in the top 10 if we take all of the non-ki powered humans we saw in Dragon Ball.
Nam fought Goku in the 21st tournament and during the fight he was literally jumping into the clouds to launch attacks, him and Goku both ended up jumping in the clouds and having a battle several kilometers above the stadium; Mr. Satan would have shit himself and called it a magic trick if he witnessed that.
Mr. Satan nearly got killed by a gunshot wound in the Buu Saga. Bora from the Red Ribbon saga tanked rounds of machinegun fire without taking a single scratch and in the King Piccolo saga threw Goku halfway up to Korin's tower, which is so high into the sky that you can't even see the top from ground level. King Chappa was another tournament winner who faced Goku in the preliminaries of the 22nd and 23rd Budokai. He dominated the tournaments to such a degree that he never received a single attack in any of his matches. When they found out Goku was his opponent in the preliminaries the gang feared for Goku, and this was after he wiped out the Red Ribbon Army, Mercenary Tao, and nearly beat Roshi last tournament.
Ox King is Goku's father in law who trained under Roshi back in the day, we didn't see his exact limits, but Goku wasn't even able to make him flinch and he was a superhuman who could smash boulders at that point; compared to Mr. Satan who can't break an entire row of tiles.
If you count Bandages as a human then he's another who would leave Mr. Satan begging for mercy. He was like an early version of Recoome, pulverizing Yamcha so that Goku could then look good bringing him down with a single hit to the gut.
Goku's very own wife Chi Chi eclipses what Mr. Satan has shown. When she was just a young girl she decapitated a tyrannosaurus rex by throwing a blade at it. She later trained under the Ox King and by the 23rd Budokai fought with such ferocity that she kept Goku on his toes and left the main cast impressed by her abilities.
You specified fighters that were alive, but if we're looking at the dead then there's also General Blue, the first fighter who came close to killing Goku (twice mind you) in a straight up battle through both physical prowess and psychic abilities. If you allow non-humans then we've got guys like Giran and I'd even put my money on Bear Thief if it came down to it.
Keep in mind everyone I just mentioned is completely outclassed by Yajirobe himself. When Goku first met Yajirobe he claimed he was the strongest person he ever fought, THIS WAS AFTER HE FOUGHT ROSHI, MERCENARY TAO, AND TIEN. We're talking about the same Tao whose preferred method of travel is to throw concrete pillars to other countries and jump on top of them because taking a jet would be too slow, the same Tao who killed General Blue with his tongue, the same Tao who deflects bullets by kicking off his slippers, the same Tao who once wrecked Mr. Satan according to Toriyama himself (there's your direct comparison). Goku then fought the Crane Schools top student Tien, who actually won the 22nd Budokai, and Goku still claimed Yajirobe was the strongest he's ever faced. King Piccolo then sent one of his children Cymbal to take them out and steal the Dragon Ball, Yajirobe responded by cutting Cymbal in half in a single stroke and eating his remains. When the 23rd Budokai rolled around, Krillin was wondering why Yajirobe didn't join since he thought a man of his power would have been a serious competitor at the tournament (He did join in disguise, but lost to Kami in the preliminaries).
When the Saiyan Saga came around he trained with the Z-fighters in preparation for the Saiyans, and that training ended with KAMI (the god who surpasses city-busting King Piccolo) saying that everyone on the lookout had surpassed him in strength. His last battle was in the Saiyan Saga against Vegeta and he managed to take him off guard not once, but twice. The first time cutting straight through his tail and ending his Great Ape mode and the 2nd time he cut through his armor and caused him to scream in agony, also survived Vegeta getting pissed and retaliating. This is Vegeta we're talking about here, I don't think I need to explain why that's a big deal, even if he was highly wounded at the time.
Mr. Satan wouldn't even be a warmup for Yajirobe. He's not much to the current Z-fighters, but the guy is a beast and not to be underestimated.
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Post by Bartek on Dec 18, 2016 8:00:27 GMT
I don't agree with you. There's no way to compare their power since they've never even fought similar opponents. Besides that I think you're forgetting Mister Satan has a lot more potential than people give him credit for, he's considered the world's martial arts champion and has obviously beaten several skilled fighters to get that title. Yajirobe doesn't even enjoy fighting and doesn't seem to train nearly as often. But to avoid going off topic I can't really see a universe where Yajirobe would learn ki anyway, he's too lazy for that. Mr. Satan at least enjoys the chance to fight people. Mr. Satan nearly got killed by a gunshot wound in the Buu Saga. Bora from the Red Ribbon saga tanked rounds of machinegun fire without taking a single scratch and in the King Piccolo saga threw Goku halfway up to Korin's tower, which is so high into the sky that you can't even see the top from ground level He got shot by suprise, off course not even his gag force can help him
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Post by Ashanark on Dec 18, 2016 8:56:54 GMT
I don't agree with you. There's no way to compare their power since they've never even fought similar opponents. Besides that I think you're forgetting Mister Satan has a lot more potential than people give him credit for, he's considered the world's martial arts champion and has obviously beaten several skilled fighters to get that title. Yajirobe doesn't even enjoy fighting and doesn't seem to train nearly as often. But to avoid going off topic I can't really see a universe where Yajirobe would learn ki anyway, he's too lazy for that. Mr. Satan at least enjoys the chance to fight people. Mr. Satan only became Champion because all of the good fighters left after the 23rd tournament, the tournament announcer flat out said the tournaments got boring because all of the talented participants left. If Mr. Satan was around in the early days of Dragon Ball he would have never gotten by, he'd be on the level of the lesser Red Ribbon Generals and Commanders at best. Mr. Satan wouldn't even rank in the top 10 if we take all of the non-ki powered humans we saw in Dragon Ball.
Nam fought Goku in the 21st tournament and during the fight he was literally jumping into the clouds to launch attacks, him and Goku both ended up jumping in the clouds and having a battle several kilometers above the stadium; Mr. Satan would have shit himself and called it a magic trick if he witnessed that.
Mr. Satan nearly got killed by a gunshot wound in the Buu Saga. Bora from the Red Ribbon saga tanked rounds of machinegun fire without taking a single scratch and in the King Piccolo saga threw Goku halfway up to Korin's tower, which is so high into the sky that you can't even see the top from ground level. King Chappa was another tournament winner who faced Goku in the preliminaries of the 22nd and 23rd Budokai. He dominated the tournaments to such a degree that he never received a single attack in any of his matches. When they found out Goku was his opponent in the preliminaries the gang feared for Goku, and this was after he wiped out the Red Ribbon Army, Mercenary Tao, and nearly beat Roshi last tournament.
Ox King is Goku's father in law who trained under Roshi back in the day, we didn't see his exact limits, but Goku wasn't even able to make him flinch and he was a superhuman who could smash boulders at that point; compared to Mr. Satan who can't break an entire row of tiles.
If you count Bandages as a human then he's another who would leave Mr. Satan begging for mercy. He was like an early version of Recoome, pulverizing Yamcha so that Goku could then look good bringing him down with a single hit to the gut.
Goku's very own wife Chi Chi eclipses what Mr. Satan has shown. When she was just a young girl she decapitated a tyrannosaurus rex by throwing a blade at it. She later trained under the Ox King and by the 23rd Budokai fought with such ferocity that she kept Goku on his toes and left the main cast impressed by her abilities.
You specified fighters that were alive, but if we're looking at the dead then there's also General Blue, the first fighter who came close to killing Goku (twice mind you) in a straight up battle through both physical prowess and psychic abilities. If you allow non-humans then we've got guys like Giran and I'd even put my money on Bear Thief if it came down to it.
Keep in mind everyone I just mentioned is completely outclassed by Yajirobe himself. When Goku first met Yajirobe he claimed he was the strongest person he ever fought, THIS WAS AFTER HE FOUGHT ROSHI, MERCENARY TAO, AND TIEN. We're talking about the same Tao whose preferred method of travel is to throw concrete pillars to other countries and jump on top of them because taking a jet would be too slow, the same Tao who killed General Blue with his tongue, the same Tao who deflects bullets by kicking off his slippers, the same Tao who once wrecked Mr. Satan according to Toriyama himself (there's your direct comparison). Goku then fought the Crane Schools top student Tien, who actually won the 22nd Budokai, and Goku still claimed Yajirobe was the strongest he's ever faced. King Piccolo then sent one of his children Cymbal to take them out and steal the Dragon Ball, Yajirobe responded by cutting Cymbal in half in a single stroke and eating his remains. When the 23rd Budokai rolled around, Krillin was wondering why Yajirobe didn't join since he thought a man of his power would have been a serious competitor at the tournament (He did join in disguise, but lost to Kami in the preliminaries).
When the Saiyan Saga came around he trained with the Z-fighters in preparation for the Saiyans, and that training ended with KAMI (the god who surpasses city-busting King Piccolo) saying that everyone on the lookout had surpassed him in strength. His last battle was in the Saiyan Saga against Vegeta and he managed to take him off guard not once, but twice. The first time cutting straight through his tail and ending his Great Ape mode and the 2nd time he cut through his armor and caused him to scream in agony, also survived Vegeta getting pissed and retaliating. This is Vegeta we're talking about here, I don't think I need to explain why that's a big deal, even if he was highly wounded at the time.
Mr. Satan wouldn't even be a warmup for Yajirobe. He's not much to the current Z-fighters, but the guy is a beast and not to be underestimated. Holy crap, Wheelo. I can safely say I'm now a much bigger Yajirobe fan than I was...and a lot less impressed with Hercule. I'll be sure to keep an eye out for these guys (I haven't heard of many of them) as I work my way through Dragon Ball. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Yajirobe. It's a shame Toriyama banished him to Korin's tower after the Saiyan saga, since despite his cowardice during the Vegeta fight I always thought he was a lot more competent than many of the Z-Fighters (Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Roshi) and definitely would've been better than Krillin had he lost some weight and seriously trained with ki. And cutting off Oozaru Vegeta's tail will always be one of the most awesome moments of Dragon Ball, and one of my favorite scenes.
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Post by Symbiotic on Dec 18, 2016 12:28:25 GMT
AshanarkYou didn't know about Nam? Xeno BlackI know, I meant drop absorption and just have possession. christhesaiyan1-What happened to the dragon balls? 2- That would work as a gag universe, but in any serious one Mr Satan would fall far behind even if he was serious. Dr. Wheelo+10
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Dec 18, 2016 12:31:23 GMT
Xeno Black Instead of possessing and absorbing, make him 'absorb' the evil energy after killing them. After all this is more consistent with his origin of condensed evil due to a broken machine. I'm sure that with the evil from Cell, Freezer, his army, and all the universe it would be enough to be very OP. Also, make the "evil absorbing machine" something more ancient-like. Some sort of statue/sphinx/gem located at the Makai holding all evilz since the beginning of time. You can also him make purge planets full of evil to feed on the collective evil of a whole civilization.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Dec 18, 2016 15:35:14 GMT
I don't agree with you. There's no way to compare their power since they've never even fought similar opponents. Besides that I think you're forgetting Mister Satan has a lot more potential than people give him credit for, he's considered the world's martial arts champion and has obviously beaten several skilled fighters to get that title. Yajirobe doesn't even enjoy fighting and doesn't seem to train nearly as often. But to avoid going off topic I can't really see a universe where Yajirobe would learn ki anyway, he's too lazy for that. Mr. Satan at least enjoys the chance to fight people. Mr. Satan only became Champion because all of the good fighters left after the 23rd tournament, the tournament announcer flat out said the tournaments got boring because all of the talented participants left. If Mr. Satan was around in the early days of Dragon Ball he would have never gotten by, he'd be on the level of the lesser Red Ribbon Generals and Commanders at best. Mr. Satan wouldn't even rank in the top 10 if we take all of the non-ki powered humans we saw in Dragon Ball.
Nam fought Goku in the 21st tournament and during the fight he was literally jumping into the clouds to launch attacks, him and Goku both ended up jumping in the clouds and having a battle several kilometers above the stadium; Mr. Satan would have shit himself and called it a magic trick if he witnessed that.
Mr. Satan nearly got killed by a gunshot wound in the Buu Saga. Bora from the Red Ribbon saga tanked rounds of machinegun fire without taking a single scratch and in the King Piccolo saga threw Goku halfway up to Korin's tower, which is so high into the sky that you can't even see the top from ground level. King Chappa was another tournament winner who faced Goku in the preliminaries of the 22nd and 23rd Budokai. He dominated the tournaments to such a degree that he never received a single attack in any of his matches. When they found out Goku was his opponent in the preliminaries the gang feared for Goku, and this was after he wiped out the Red Ribbon Army, Mercenary Tao, and nearly beat Roshi last tournament.
Ox King is Goku's father in law who trained under Roshi back in the day, we didn't see his exact limits, but Goku wasn't even able to make him flinch and he was a superhuman who could smash boulders at that point; compared to Mr. Satan who can't break an entire row of tiles.
If you count Bandages as a human then he's another who would leave Mr. Satan begging for mercy. He was like an early version of Recoome, pulverizing Yamcha so that Goku could then look good bringing him down with a single hit to the gut.
Goku's very own wife Chi Chi eclipses what Mr. Satan has shown. When she was just a young girl she decapitated a tyrannosaurus rex by throwing a blade at it. She later trained under the Ox King and by the 23rd Budokai fought with such ferocity that she kept Goku on his toes and left the main cast impressed by her abilities.
You specified fighters that were alive, but if we're looking at the dead then there's also General Blue, the first fighter who came close to killing Goku (twice mind you) in a straight up battle through both physical prowess and psychic abilities. If you allow non-humans then we've got guys like Giran and I'd even put my money on Bear Thief if it came down to it.
Keep in mind everyone I just mentioned is completely outclassed by Yajirobe himself. When Goku first met Yajirobe he claimed he was the strongest person he ever fought, THIS WAS AFTER HE FOUGHT ROSHI, MERCENARY TAO, AND TIEN. We're talking about the same Tao whose preferred method of travel is to throw concrete pillars to other countries and jump on top of them because taking a jet would be too slow, the same Tao who killed General Blue with his tongue, the same Tao who deflects bullets by kicking off his slippers, the same Tao who once wrecked Mr. Satan according to Toriyama himself (there's your direct comparison). Goku then fought the Crane Schools top student Tien, who actually won the 22nd Budokai, and Goku still claimed Yajirobe was the strongest he's ever faced. King Piccolo then sent one of his children Cymbal to take them out and steal the Dragon Ball, Yajirobe responded by cutting Cymbal in half in a single stroke and eating his remains. When the 23rd Budokai rolled around, Krillin was wondering why Yajirobe didn't join since he thought a man of his power would have been a serious competitor at the tournament (He did join in disguise, but lost to Kami in the preliminaries).
When the Saiyan Saga came around he trained with the Z-fighters in preparation for the Saiyans, and that training ended with KAMI (the god who surpasses city-busting King Piccolo) saying that everyone on the lookout had surpassed him in strength. His last battle was in the Saiyan Saga against Vegeta and he managed to take him off guard not once, but twice. The first time cutting straight through his tail and ending his Great Ape mode and the 2nd time he cut through his armor and caused him to scream in agony, also survived Vegeta getting pissed and retaliating. This is Vegeta we're talking about here, I don't think I need to explain why that's a big deal, even if he was highly wounded at the time.
Mr. Satan wouldn't even be a warmup for Yajirobe. He's not much to the current Z-fighters, but the guy is a beast and not to be underestimated.
Okay I concede, he's not the strongest non-ki using human. Admittedly I don't know much about early Dragon Ball. But I still do not believe in the slightest that that undermines his potential. Look at how strong his own daughter got by learning to use ki, there really is no telling what Mr. Satan's limits would be. I think it would be interesting to see a universe where he becomes a more serious version of himself, someone that has actual incentive to train, learn ki, and fight bad guys. For instance there could be a universe where his wife is killed by an evil ki user and he decides to get stronger and fight to avenge her and protect people. If he seriously trained, like roughly the same amount of training Goku's had, the guy would probably end up at the very least on Frieza's level, if not much stronger. I suppose the best example would be a universe where Raditz kills his brother and the rest of the Z-fighters (including just about every human you mentioned since a lot of them would probably end up stepping up to fight him once the better guys are dead), decides to wipe out a decent amount of humanity as a warm up for things to come(would make sense to want to scare them like that for a Saiyan), and Mr. Satan's wife is one of the people killed (would fit into the time she actually died too since Videl was about Gohan's age) and it motivates him to go to Roshi for training, or something like that. Then he would be the one who fights the Saiyans and manages to beat them. Considering he was already a well-above-average human whereas Goku was about an average strength Saiyan by genetic standards, it shouldn't be hard to believe that he could reach that level as a ki user, especially if he was able to use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or have his potential unlocked at some point. All I'm saying is don't undermine his capabilities. He has displayed some pretty incredible and near-impossible feats for a human being and has potential, assuming his personality changed a little.
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Post by Android 13 on Dec 18, 2016 16:22:22 GMT
Mr. Satan only became Champion because all of the good fighters left after the 23rd tournament, the tournament announcer flat out said the tournaments got boring because all of the talented participants left. If Mr. Satan was around in the early days of Dragon Ball he would have never gotten by, he'd be on the level of the lesser Red Ribbon Generals and Commanders at best. Mr. Satan wouldn't even rank in the top 10 if we take all of the non-ki powered humans we saw in Dragon Ball.
Nam fought Goku in the 21st tournament and during the fight he was literally jumping into the clouds to launch attacks, him and Goku both ended up jumping in the clouds and having a battle several kilometers above the stadium; Mr. Satan would have shit himself and called it a magic trick if he witnessed that.
Mr. Satan nearly got killed by a gunshot wound in the Buu Saga. Bora from the Red Ribbon saga tanked rounds of machinegun fire without taking a single scratch and in the King Piccolo saga threw Goku halfway up to Korin's tower, which is so high into the sky that you can't even see the top from ground level. King Chappa was another tournament winner who faced Goku in the preliminaries of the 22nd and 23rd Budokai. He dominated the tournaments to such a degree that he never received a single attack in any of his matches. When they found out Goku was his opponent in the preliminaries the gang feared for Goku, and this was after he wiped out the Red Ribbon Army, Mercenary Tao, and nearly beat Roshi last tournament.
Ox King is Goku's father in law who trained under Roshi back in the day, we didn't see his exact limits, but Goku wasn't even able to make him flinch and he was a superhuman who could smash boulders at that point; compared to Mr. Satan who can't break an entire row of tiles.
If you count Bandages as a human then he's another who would leave Mr. Satan begging for mercy. He was like an early version of Recoome, pulverizing Yamcha so that Goku could then look good bringing him down with a single hit to the gut.
Goku's very own wife Chi Chi eclipses what Mr. Satan has shown. When she was just a young girl she decapitated a tyrannosaurus rex by throwing a blade at it. She later trained under the Ox King and by the 23rd Budokai fought with such ferocity that she kept Goku on his toes and left the main cast impressed by her abilities.
You specified fighters that were alive, but if we're looking at the dead then there's also General Blue, the first fighter who came close to killing Goku (twice mind you) in a straight up battle through both physical prowess and psychic abilities. If you allow non-humans then we've got guys like Giran and I'd even put my money on Bear Thief if it came down to it.
Keep in mind everyone I just mentioned is completely outclassed by Yajirobe himself. When Goku first met Yajirobe he claimed he was the strongest person he ever fought, THIS WAS AFTER HE FOUGHT ROSHI, MERCENARY TAO, AND TIEN. We're talking about the same Tao whose preferred method of travel is to throw concrete pillars to other countries and jump on top of them because taking a jet would be too slow, the same Tao who killed General Blue with his tongue, the same Tao who deflects bullets by kicking off his slippers, the same Tao who once wrecked Mr. Satan according to Toriyama himself (there's your direct comparison). Goku then fought the Crane Schools top student Tien, who actually won the 22nd Budokai, and Goku still claimed Yajirobe was the strongest he's ever faced. King Piccolo then sent one of his children Cymbal to take them out and steal the Dragon Ball, Yajirobe responded by cutting Cymbal in half in a single stroke and eating his remains. When the 23rd Budokai rolled around, Krillin was wondering why Yajirobe didn't join since he thought a man of his power would have been a serious competitor at the tournament (He did join in disguise, but lost to Kami in the preliminaries).
When the Saiyan Saga came around he trained with the Z-fighters in preparation for the Saiyans, and that training ended with KAMI (the god who surpasses city-busting King Piccolo) saying that everyone on the lookout had surpassed him in strength. His last battle was in the Saiyan Saga against Vegeta and he managed to take him off guard not once, but twice. The first time cutting straight through his tail and ending his Great Ape mode and the 2nd time he cut through his armor and caused him to scream in agony, also survived Vegeta getting pissed and retaliating. This is Vegeta we're talking about here, I don't think I need to explain why that's a big deal, even if he was highly wounded at the time.
Mr. Satan wouldn't even be a warmup for Yajirobe. He's not much to the current Z-fighters, but the guy is a beast and not to be underestimated.
Okay I concede, he's not the strongest non-ki using human. Admittedly I don't know much about early Dragon Ball. But I still do not believe in the slightest that that undermines his potential. Look at how strong his own daughter got by learning to use ki, there really is no telling what Mr. Satan's limits would be. I think it would be interesting to see a universe where he becomes a more serious version of himself, someone that has actual incentive to train, learn ki, and fight bad guys. For instance there could be a universe where his wife is killed by an evil ki user and he decides to get stronger and fight to avenge her and protect people. If he seriously trained, like roughly the same amount of training Goku's had, the guy would probably end up at the very least on Frieza's level, if not much stronger. I suppose the best example would be a universe where Raditz kills his brother and the rest of the Z-fighters (including just about every human you mentioned since a lot of them would probably end up stepping up to fight him once the better guys are dead), decides to wipe out a decent amount of humanity as a warm up for things to come(would make sense to want to scare them like that for a Saiyan), and Mr. Satan's wife is one of the people killed (would fit into the time she actually died too since Videl was about Gohan's age) and it motivates him to go to Roshi for training, or something like that. Then he would be the one who fights the Saiyans and manages to beat them. Considering he was already a well-above-average human whereas Goku was about an average strength Saiyan by genetic standards, it shouldn't be hard to believe that he could reach that level as a ki user, especially if he was able to use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or have his potential unlocked at some point. All I'm saying is don't undermine his capabilities. He has displayed some pretty incredible and near-impossible feats for a human being and has potential, assuming his personality changed a little. Satan stronger than Frieza? Then we should remake Movie 2:The World's Strongest, this time the hero being Mr.Satan and destroying Wheelo with a single Dynamite Kick!Seriously, people are debating whether Krillin and Tien surpassed Frieza, and you put "potentially" Satan above them, I find that more than impossible.Sure, Satan is a core part of the series, a funny and important character, but his power or potential is nowhere near Frieza.Unless Toriyama decides to pull off a "prodigy" again and make Satan train for 4 month and surpass Beerus if you will(where have I heard that one before, hmmm ).As a fanfic yeah, this can be plausible, but I don't want to see anymore Nightmare Broly/Universe busting.It's fun to theorize, but Satan doesn't have nearly what it takes to even survive Popo's training or the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.No offense, but going by this logic I want Android 13 to 1v1 Zeno and win after a long, exhausting battle, between the rubble of millions of universes.Then my dream will come true.
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Post by Ashanark on Dec 18, 2016 17:33:46 GMT
I knew about Nam. Once I saw him I thought he was cool and should be confirmed as Uub's dad. Chappa, Bora, and Bandages were who I didn't know, as well as Goku's comments on how strong Yajirobe was. I wish U9 had a Yajirobe as a spectator. Maybe he died during whatever it was that happened there?
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Post by christhesaiyan on Dec 18, 2016 18:01:13 GMT
Okay I concede, he's not the strongest non-ki using human. Admittedly I don't know much about early Dragon Ball. But I still do not believe in the slightest that that undermines his potential. Look at how strong his own daughter got by learning to use ki, there really is no telling what Mr. Satan's limits would be. I think it would be interesting to see a universe where he becomes a more serious version of himself, someone that has actual incentive to train, learn ki, and fight bad guys. For instance there could be a universe where his wife is killed by an evil ki user and he decides to get stronger and fight to avenge her and protect people. If he seriously trained, like roughly the same amount of training Goku's had, the guy would probably end up at the very least on Frieza's level, if not much stronger. I suppose the best example would be a universe where Raditz kills his brother and the rest of the Z-fighters (including just about every human you mentioned since a lot of them would probably end up stepping up to fight him once the better guys are dead), decides to wipe out a decent amount of humanity as a warm up for things to come(would make sense to want to scare them like that for a Saiyan), and Mr. Satan's wife is one of the people killed (would fit into the time she actually died too since Videl was about Gohan's age) and it motivates him to go to Roshi for training, or something like that. Then he would be the one who fights the Saiyans and manages to beat them. Considering he was already a well-above-average human whereas Goku was about an average strength Saiyan by genetic standards, it shouldn't be hard to believe that he could reach that level as a ki user, especially if he was able to use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or have his potential unlocked at some point. All I'm saying is don't undermine his capabilities. He has displayed some pretty incredible and near-impossible feats for a human being and has potential, assuming his personality changed a little. Satan stronger than Frieza? Then we should remake Movie 2:The World's Strongest, this time the hero being Mr.Satan and destroying Wheelo with a single Dynamite Kick!Seriously, people are debating whether Krillin and Tien surpassed Frieza, and you put "potentially" Satan above them, I find that more than impossible.Sure, Satan is a core part of the series, a funny and important character, but his power or potential is nowhere near Frieza.Unless Toriyama decides to pull off a "prodigy" again and make Satan train for 4 month and surpass Beerus if you will(where have I heard that one before, hmmm ).As a fanfic yeah, this can be plausible, but I don't want to see anymore Nightmare Broly/Universe busting.It's fun to theorize, but Satan doesn't have nearly what it takes to even survive Popo's training or the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.No offense, but going by this logic I want Android 13 to 1v1 Zeno and win after a long, exhausting battle, between the rubble of millions of universes.Then my dream will come true. You do realize that the U9 version of his daughter was able to keep up with Cold's 2nd form using the Z-Sword BEFORE her potential was unlocked, don't you? And the main Videl was shocked just to surpass her father. If his daughter can attain that much power, imagine what Mister Satan could do with potential unlocked.
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Post by Android 13 on Dec 18, 2016 18:31:47 GMT
Satan stronger than Frieza? Then we should remake Movie 2:The World's Strongest, this time the hero being Mr.Satan and destroying Wheelo with a single Dynamite Kick!Seriously, people are debating whether Krillin and Tien surpassed Frieza, and you put "potentially" Satan above them, I find that more than impossible.Sure, Satan is a core part of the series, a funny and important character, but his power or potential is nowhere near Frieza.Unless Toriyama decides to pull off a "prodigy" again and make Satan train for 4 month and surpass Beerus if you will(where have I heard that one before, hmmm ).As a fanfic yeah, this can be plausible, but I don't want to see anymore Nightmare Broly/Universe busting.It's fun to theorize, but Satan doesn't have nearly what it takes to even survive Popo's training or the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.No offense, but going by this logic I want Android 13 to 1v1 Zeno and win after a long, exhausting battle, between the rubble of millions of universes.Then my dream will come true. You do realize that the U9 version of his daughter was able to keep up with Cold's 2nd form using the Z-Sword BEFORE her potential was unlocked, don't you? And the main Videl was shocked just to surpass her father. If his daughter can attain that much power, imagine what Mister Satan could do with potential unlocked. That's DBM for you, and also, it's Videl, not Satan.After Gohan's potential was unlocked, he was at least 60 times stronger than Goku's Base, going by unofficial multipliers, no? Yet you don't see Goku running around in his base (not counting Super), destroying Super Buus left and right.Same here, Satan is and in my opinion will always be weaker than Videl.If we exclude DBM, then Satan is as good as he can be in my opinion.If we include DBM, by some miracle he might reach a high level, such as mid-Namek saga.But that's going of by "potential".
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Post by Xeno Black on Dec 18, 2016 19:29:18 GMT
Xeno Black Instead of possessing and absorbing, make him 'absorb' the evil energy after killing them. After all this is more consistent with his origin of condensed evil due to a broken machine. I'm sure that with the evil from Cell, Freezer, his army, and all the universe it would be enough to be very OP. Also, make the "evil absorbing machine" something more ancient-like. Some sort of statue/sphinx/gem located at the Makai holding all evilz since the beginning of time. You can also him make purge planets full of evil to feed on the collective evil of a whole civilization. Those are some hella-good ideas right there. I might need to "tweak" my story a little and re-post it with these new ideas.
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Post by christhesaiyan on Dec 18, 2016 19:30:13 GMT
You do realize that the U9 version of his daughter was able to keep up with Cold's 2nd form using the Z-Sword BEFORE her potential was unlocked, don't you? And the main Videl was shocked just to surpass her father. If his daughter can attain that much power, imagine what Mister Satan could do with potential unlocked. That's DBM for you, and also, it's Videl, not Satan.After Gohan's potential was unlocked, he was at least 60 times stronger than Goku's Base, going by unofficial multipliers, no? Yet you don't see Goku running around in his base (not counting Super), destroying Super Buus left and right.Same here, Satan is and in my opinion will always be weaker than Videl.If we exclude DBM, then Satan is as good as he can be in my opinion.If we include DBM, by some miracle he might reach a high level, such as mid-Namek saga.But that's going of by "potential". I think Gohan had a bit of an unfair advantage. There's no telling what the power difference would be if Goku had the Old Kai unlock his potential. That's not really to say that Gohan might not be stronger anyway, he received better training than Goku and achieved much higher levels of power than Goku did at his age. Having said that, I never explicitly stated that I would expect Mr. Satan to surpass his daughter. I'm just pointing out that if someone who trained under him and shared his blood achieved that level of power, then logically he has to hold a lot of potential himself. Remember that Videl trained with her father her whole life and then ended up surpassing him, meaning that it was because of his training she was able to do that. If Mr. Satan trained under Roshi and had the Old Kai unlock his potential, he would probably at least be strong enough to beat Frieza.
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Post by Bartek on Dec 18, 2016 20:42:39 GMT
You do realize that the U9 version of his daughter was able to keep up with Cold's 2nd form using the Z-Sword BEFORE her potential was unlocked, don't you? And the main Videl was shocked just to surpass her father. If his daughter can attain that much power, imagine what Mister Satan could do with potential unlocked. also, it's Videl, not Satan Waaaaaaait, if Videl is more important than Mark, how come he first apeared in a Famicom game and was later playable in a Arcade game but not Videl?
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