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Post by VoidSlayer on Oct 11, 2017 9:17:46 GMT
I'm not saying it's not possible, and they just psychically 'willed' the objects in question to collide and used the images on their play boards as some kind of divine holograms. I'm merely stating that so far Zeno has yet to show any other power except for erase so it's hard to argue anything else when there's (currently) no evidence. Well, given the level of power they exhibit, I'm sure they can very well 'will' anything out of existence, as long as Zen-Oh knows it exists. Since we know that Zen-Oh isn't omniscient as was portrayed, I'm sure that kind of requirement applies. In that case then perhaps 'Erase' can be used multiple ways beyond whats we've seen with all the shining lights and sudden disappearing? Zeno's Planet Regicide is simply another application of it? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 15:30:42 GMT
Well, given the level of power they exhibit, I'm sure they can very well 'will' anything out of existence, as long as Zen-Oh knows it exists. Since we know that Zen-Oh isn't omniscient as was portrayed, I'm sure that kind of requirement applies. In that case then perhaps 'Erase' can be used multiple ways beyond whats we've seen with all the shining lights and sudden disappearing? Zeno's Planet Regicide is simply another application of it? Wild but stupid theory: All those blinking lights are multiple realities that are created by every being in the multiverse which are then instantaneously erased from existence in flashes of light by Zen-Oh's grace. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 12, 2017 0:43:01 GMT
The Retro Kakarotto VoidSlayer @fegget117 Well I say that the sword shattering must mean he was released from it instead of dying based off the fact that in the main timeline Old Kai was released when the sword broke into 2. If breaking the sword undoes the seal then the sword shattering to a million pieces should do the same. The sword itself isn't alive, so it should make sense that there is no life link between the Old Kai and the sword, so it breaking just means the seal breaks and he is released not killed. My conclusion has canonical evidence to back it up, whereas yours while it might make some logical sense still is rather cloudy when compared to how the main timeline Old Kai was released from the sword and not killed along with it breaking. As for Dabura's Spit affecting sealed entities, there is no canonical example except possibly for the DBS manga, which is a separate canon from the anime. Based off anime canon, we can only definitively say for the anime until confirmed otherwise is that Future Old Kai was released and then killed by Goku Black (upon sensing a high class deity still being alive in that timeline's U7) or Zen-Oh (when he used Erase on the entire timeline's Multiverse) later on. As for Planetary Marbles, I can be satisfied with it being a form of Erase without the light being used, but I'd like to think it is a different technique, since that would flesh out his character slightly more by giving him one more ability -AND- also because all canonically confirmed examples of him using Erase have shown him using the Blue/White balls of light (based off which Zen-Oh used it or maybe just based off whatever color he chose the technique to be).
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 12, 2017 6:08:18 GMT
The Retro Kakarotto VoidSlayer @fegget117 Well I say that the sword shattering must mean he was released from it instead of dying based off the fact that in the main timeline Old Kai was released when the sword broke into 2. If breaking the sword undoes the seal then the sword shattering to a million pieces should do the same. The sword itself isn't alive, so it should make sense that there is no life link between the Old Kai and the sword, so it breaking just means the seal breaks and he is released not killed. My conclusion has canonical evidence to back it up, whereas yours while it might make some logical sense still is rather cloudy when compared to how the main timeline Old Kai was released from the sword and not killed along with it breaking. As for Dabura's Spit affecting sealed entities, there is no canonical example except possibly for the DBS manga, which is a separate canon from the anime. Based off anime canon, we can only definitively say for the anime until confirmed otherwise is that Future Old Kai was released and then killed by Goku Black (upon sensing a high class deity still being alive in that timeline's U7) or Zen-Oh (when he used Erase on the entire timeline's Multiverse) later on. The main difference was if the sword turned to stone or not. If the Manga played slightly similar to the anime, they would've had Trunks fight without the sword, effectively nobody knows that Old Kai was sealed in the first place. Trivia aside, take a look at how Vegeta got swallowed into the small vial during the ToP. Roshi did his finger beam and broke a portion of the seal, allowing Vegeta to return completely intact, not like he lost an arm or anything. The sword (obviously) isn't a container, yet if Old Kai was sealed in there, either there was some sort of pocket dimension inside of the sword, or he became the sword (which I'm starting to think is the case since we literally do not see the sword after it broke in half and scenes involving Old Kai). Mine used assumptions made from what we've seen with Dabura's power and the fact that Old Kai would've been released from the sword under normal circumstances should nothing happen to the sword. Touch the Spit = Turned to Stone Break the Sword = Release Old Kai. Thanks to the new idea Old Kai became the sword, I'm thinking that turning the sword to stone and shattering the sword was what killed Old Kai. Your statement on the otherhand had to use an unproven assumption " Sealing someone removes their life" or " sealing Old Kai removed his Supreme Kai status" but neither of those were hinted in the series. Case in the former, Old Kai came out of the sword alive. If he was "dead" during his time sealed, where did his soul go? Case in the latter, no mentioning was made when Old Kai revealed that Beerus sealed him and thus he lost his title, only that he was just sealed away for 75 million years ago. If Beerus did debunk Old Kai from Supreme Kai status, OK would've told Kibito Kai "That's why I am no longer a supreme Kai" or something along those lines instead of not telling the audience and Kibito Kai. It would've made Beerus even more powerful at that time as the Destroyer God back when there was no such thing as a life link. --- (Interestingly, in the Supreme Kai Position Page, it notes the possibility that Old Kai and Shin function as two of the Supreme Kais of Universe 7. Under the Trivia Page.) --- Incorrect, no mentioning of the Z Sword, no mentioning of Old Kai, only that Shin gave Trunks instructions on how to deal with Dabura and Babidi, therefore Old Kai was not confirmed to have been released in the future timeline. I agree that Black went on his onslaught and "killed the Supreme Kais" (since the anime just brushed Shin's death along with the rest of them instead of making him the Special case) but disagree that Goku Black would've killed Old Kai for two reasons: 1) Old Kai wasn't released from the sword, as explained above "no mentioning" issue B) If Shin and Kibito couldn't sense energy from the Sword, how in the multiverse could Goku Black sense Old Kai trapped in the sword?
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Oct 14, 2017 7:21:59 GMT
The Retro KakarottoI think you are misunderstanding what I was Saiyan and if I didn't make it clear enough then I'm sorry about that. What I was trying to get at was that the life link was removed due to the fact that his status as Supreme Kai was revoked after they had to replace him with someone else. It would seem that either the Supreme Kais didn't know he was trapped inside the sword and therefore assumed him to be dead and therefore chose a successor for his vacant seat. That or Shin was never informed about the fact that Old Kai had been trapped in the Z Sword and just assumed it was meant to be pulled by someone worthy and strong enough to wield it. I prefer to assume the former that the Supreme Kais of 15 Generations ago had been unaware that he was still alive trapped inside the sword, but regardless it seemed that the life link was transferred from Old Kai to his successor whenever that successor was officially granted the title of Supreme Kai and that would explain why he doesn't have that connection to Beerus anymore.
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