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Post by Akroma on Aug 19, 2016 16:03:54 GMT
Akroma Interesting point but does that apply only to Cell? Both Nappa and Freeza were under the same category yet angered Gohan didn't aim for torturing them, he went straight for the kill. And as he matured he started to grow affraid of his own anger. He clearly doesn't even want to kill Cell. And yet he loses all of the kindness when he goes SSJ 2. Is it because he was so angry? Or did the power have similar but much stronger effect to what happened to Goku when he went SSJ? We can never be sure but seeing how similar his behavior was to Goku when he transformed I assume the latter. Funny... When I give it a deeper thought I almost call Super Sayian and "evil power". In the end it's not strength brought from any positive emotion. It's a power born from insane amount of anger, hatred and urge for revenge. But that probably should go in different topic. Gohan was still a kid when he fought Freeza. In that time, even when angered, Gohan's intent was not to punish Freeza, but only STOP him. A child has a pure heart. No one borns evil, even a saiyan. The saiyan baby borns with SSj potential within him, but SSj don't means evilness. It is a feature from the race, a mechanism to survive. You know, in Nature, natural selection rules: the stronger survive, the weak die. SSj is a mechanism from Nature to the saiyans to help them survive, and in fact, it worked exactly like that: SSj saved Goku (the last from saiyans) from extinction against Freeza. But against Cell, Gohan was not a pure heart anymore. He was a teen, and a teen is not a pure heart anymore, most because of the malice that comes from that age (most because puberty and sex appeal). And in that situation, his wishes were stop Cell BUT no without punish him for his crimes. Gohan's intentions were stop AND punish. Against Freeza, as a child, he only wanted to stop him. That's the difference. I don't know if you had played the God of War trilogy, but in case yes, remember the ending of 3: when Kratos killed Zeus, his hands are filled with BLUE fire. Later, Atena said that was the power of HOPE. And hope is not a evil feeling, hope is what keeps you fighting even when all seems lost. The fact that a person is using punches don't means evilness, that person might be fighting for a good reason. Like #16 said, fight for justice is not a sin.
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Post by Archon on Aug 19, 2016 18:33:07 GMT
Akroma Interesting point but does that apply only to Cell? Both Nappa and Freeza were under the same category yet angered Gohan didn't aim for torturing them, he went straight for the kill. And as he matured he started to grow affraid of his own anger. He clearly doesn't even want to kill Cell. And yet he loses all of the kindness when he goes SSJ 2. Is it because he was so angry? Or did the power have similar but much stronger effect to what happened to Goku when he went SSJ? We can never be sure but seeing how similar his behavior was to Goku when he transformed I assume the latter. Funny... When I give it a deeper thought I almost call Super Sayian and "evil power". In the end it's not strength brought from any positive emotion. It's a power born from insane amount of anger, hatred and urge for revenge. But that probably should go in different topic. You know what you mentioned about SSJ being a evil power should have been played with better by the half Sayians. I mean if after the Dabura fight Gohan did go mad and attacked with such ferocity that he put Videl or his mom in danger, it would explain why he stopped training. He wouldn't be lazy but scared of what he could do. Wouldn't that be a further reason to keep training though? So he could control his anger? Especially after his Mystic boost he never really got angry to the same extent because he didn't need to.
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Post by kinnikuman on Aug 19, 2016 18:38:56 GMT
You know what you mentioned about SSJ being a evil power should have been played with better by the half Sayians. I mean if after the Dabura fight Gohan did go mad and attacked with such ferocity that he put Videl or his mom in danger, it would explain why he stopped training. He wouldn't be lazy but scared of what he could do. Wouldn't that be a further reason to keep training though? So he could control his anger? Especially after his Mystic boost he never really got angry to the same extent because he didn't need to. I still stand that Gohan lost his mystic when he was absorbed, same with Goku and Vegeta defusing, Kai power is eliminated inside buu makes sense.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 19, 2016 18:41:52 GMT
^Interesting theory but ultimately wrong. If Gohan had lost his Mystic by being absorbed, then Buuhan wouldn't have been so powerful. It would have been barely stronger than Buuccolo/base Super Buu. Not even mentioning we saw Mystic Gohan (although it had to be corrected) on Battle of the Gods.
Gohan didn't have Mystic in GT only because well... TOEI.
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Post by jkrevan on Aug 19, 2016 22:38:23 GMT
For me, GT was fun with some cringeworthy parts (mostly derived from Japanese humor)
I do agree however that making Goku the only one who can do anything was lame as possible.
SSJ4 has a nice design (except for the eyeliner)
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Post by Kaio del Norte on Aug 24, 2016 21:38:28 GMT
GT is a running gag to many of us Dragon Ball fans. But when I started writing my own Dragon Ball fanfic about six years ago, I realized that most of its concepts were actually very good. It was just a matter of execution. So, let's talk a bit about Dragon Ball Gee-Tee. Some Things That Were Good Ideas (But Not Necessarily Well-Done)
1. A Tuffle villain. The Tuffles always felt like an underused plot thread to me, especially considering that I was an American in the 90's and didn't know about Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans. Having a villain being a Tuffle seeking revenge against the Saiyans ideally would have added a bit of moral ambiguity that Dragon Ball hadn't seen before. 2. A parasite villain. Frieza was described as the most powerful being in the universe. With that sort of introduction, the strength of all the villains that came after him always seemed a bit of a stretch to me...So some human scientist can make robots stronger than Frieza? Yeah, right. Some bug thing needs another level of Super Saiyan to beat? Uh-huh. Oh, there was some ancient demon way, way stronger than even the overpowered Super Saiyans, who was never mentioned before now? Sure. The reason why Baby is a great idea to me is that he is not powerful. He doesn't try to overpower the Super Saiyans--he takes them over and uses their strength to his advantage. How do you fight a villain that takes over your friends? How would you feel, having to fight or maybe kill them? If you haven't trained for the past 15/20 years because you can always count on Goku to save you, what would you do if he was suddenly being controlled by the bad guy? The idea of a parasite villain is a great way to have a formidable baddie without making power levels skyrocket to even more ridiculous heights. Sadly...none of this really happened. 3. An energy-draining villain. I may not have liked Super 17 that much, but the idea of a power-sucking baddie seems like a good one. The closest we got to that were Androids 19 and 20, and the ability seemed very underused even then. If nothing else, the fact that Super 17 could use the good guys' energy against them was a setup for a villain that took brains, not brawn, to defeat. 4. A reunion of all past villains. Not so original of an idea, but Dragon Ball has so many great bad guys that it was fun to see them all again--especially since some, like Super Perfect Cell and Dabura, would've been a very great threat to the slacking half-Saiyans like Goten and Trunks. Too bad they were all dealt with off-screen, or didn't put up any kind of fight. 5. A return of Saiyan tails and the Oozaru form. While I personally don't like Super Saiyan 4--Super Saiyans, to me, should be golden--I thought it was a great return to the origins of Saiyans, and I actually think Goku and the other Saiyans look better with tails. (Better emphasizes their alien nature.) 6. Making the Dragon Balls the focus again. Really, the Frieza arc was the last time the title of the show was relevant. During the Cell and Buu sagas, the legendary Dragon Balls were just a way to clean up the mess. Dragon Ball GT introduced a new set of Dragon Balls and made the search for them more tense than ever before by saying the earth would be destroyed if they weren't found. 7. Shadow Dragons. What better way to get back at the heroes for so casually treating the Dragon Balls, than to have their use cause great big nasties to appear? The concept of having Shadow Dragons as the ultimate villain is, to me, a great way to bring the story full-circle. Some Things That Were Bad Ideas
1. Making Goku a kid. Not so much the fact that he was a kid, but more about how it came out of the blue and also changed the tone of the series. 2. Making Goku the only relevant character. No, really--if there ever was a Mary Sue in Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball Super, or Dragon Ball Multiverse...it's GT Goku. His base form alone is more relevant than all other characters combined. Somehow the writers thought that giving Goku every victory and scene was a good idea...and reduced Gohan, Vegeta, and Piccolo to bit roles. 3. Naming Baby "Baby." 4. Messing up both Uub and Pan. All of the buildup for both characters is utterly wasted. The same applies to a lesser extent with Goten and Trunks. Fulfilling the potential of Uub and Pan is one area where DBM has trumped all other competitors, in my eyes. 5. Not having Baby possess Goku. Really, what better way to have Uub take the helm than to have him face his mentor? 6. Having most of the Shadow Dragons look stupid. 7. Not having other characters get to help in taking out all seven Shadow Dragons. What better opportunity to see cool team-ups than here? You could even have made it into a family competition--Goku/Goten racing Vegeta/Trunks racing Gohan/Pan... 8. Ridiculous power levels. If the henchman of the first main villain is as strong as Majin Buu, you've probably gone too far. Thoughts? What worked about GT? What didn't? What would you change, and how would you change it? I agree for the most. DragonBall GT had some great potential but too many flaws that can't be overlooked... Good ideas : 1. A Tuffle ennemy. Why not? They never were much developped and it makes sense as the last Saiyans and their offsprings all live on Earth and the last Tuffle would wanna get revenge. I buy that. 2. A parasite. Actually the most logical way to go. After Majin Buu, how could any being in the universe be a real threat? Even the weakest Z fighters are way stronger than a vast majority of people universe-wide. Controlling them and having them fighting each other makes sense. 3. An energy-draining villains. Meh. It's been done once with the androids 19 and 20. Majin Buu absorbing people was more interresting. I especially don't think any technology could reach that level. As you said the original androids were already a bit of a stretch. Above Freeza? Hmm, k... Above Ssj4? Get real. 4. I really liked the idea of Goku fighting Cell and Freeza in hell while some other foes cause havoc on Earth. Then again, poor execution... 5. I couldn't see a reason to try to go over Ssj3 but I guess it worked in the context (Saiyan vs. Saiyan). Also I really liked the Ssj4 concept. 6. Good point. A quest for the dragon balls throughout the galaxy? Cool! But I didn't buy the whole black dragon balls thing and the power they have. But I liked the idea of the deadline. Adds a little more tension. 7. Couldn't have said it better myself. Furthermore I loved the way it ended. No more dragon balls, Goku leaves with Shenron with little explanation after saying goodbye to all his friends, Piccolo becomes the guardian of Hell!? Awesome! I'll finish my post later, there are a couple more points I'd like to add...
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Post by Kirasha on Sept 14, 2016 18:07:18 GMT
I like GT for what it was, a continuation of DBZ but I've so far been only capable of watching it in full once. Every other time I've tried I'm just taken away by some of the glaring issues and plotholes that exist right from the start.
Like, the Black Star Dragon Balls, which by all means should not exist according to DB/Z lore. Pilaf mentions that they were created by Kamiccolo before the split, which already renders them useless, because as we've seen, the Dragonballs go inert when Kami and Piccolo fuse back together and needing Dende to reinstate them. So these Black Star Dragon Balls shouldn't be even capable of working.
Aside from other valid negative reason tossed in here, I also have to say it's extremely boring. I mean really, the background music is hardly suspenseful like it was in DBZ, regardless of the original Toei dub or the Funimation version. And the fight just feel...dull to me. Like, I used to watch clips on Youtube of fights in DB or DBZ and I always enjoyed them, but I simply can't with any of the GT fights without feeling dull/bored.
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Post by Axalon on Sept 14, 2016 19:49:31 GMT
DBGT was so MEH for a long time. It wasn't until Baby and SS4 that the series started getting interesting.
DBGT had some good ideas, the execution just wasn't handled nearly as well as it could've been. Over reliance on the dragon balls was probably my favorite story thread of the bunch. I just liked that they were meant to be these rarely used miracle treasures that got abused thanks to Bulma's dragon radar. It gave some consequences to things. Goku and Shenron leaving at the finale was also nice (despite the weird scene of the dragon balls being absorbed into Goku), since it symbolized how the Earth had to not only adapt to life without Goku and fend for itself, but also to stop relying on Shenron to fix everything.
In a way, DBS is committing some of those same mistakes, and I'm not a fan of seeing history repeat itself. Characters besides Goku and Vegeta are being thrown to the wind in terms of usefulness. Future Trunks is still cool, but his power is totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The new SS forms have cool auras, but I'm not a fan of the rainbow path of colors they seem to be going down. SSG was just AWFUL in terms of how the transformation was achieved (with even Goku commenting on how he hated the way he got it).
Likewise Golden Frieza, if fully rested, being stronger than SSB Goku was just absurd. He surpassed so many characters in the span of four months of beating up whats-his-face? No, I don't believe that one bit.
That said, DBS did have a better start to it than DBGT. Beerus and Whis are much more entertaining characters than anything DBGT did in it's first story arc or two, plus they neatly establish a new hierarchy that Goku and Vegeta have yet to beat, something that DBGT didn't do until around Omega Shenron.
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Post by jkrevan on Sept 15, 2016 1:59:34 GMT
To be honest i really like GT after all, and despite what everyone says, GT has actually next to no plot holes, ass pulls for sure, but all is "explained" and tied in universe.
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Post by Jaquan on Sept 15, 2016 4:15:26 GMT
To be honest i really like GT after all, and despite what everyone says, GT has actually next to no plot holes, ass pulls for sure, but all is "explained" and tied in universe. Oh really? Sorry but you just pressed my "analysis button"... Let's get this started shall we? First of all... Why the heck no one ever found out about BS (hey I like this acronym xd) Dragon Balls before? For the F sake they used Dragon Radar at least twice since Piccolo and Kami fused. Why, in fact do those dragon balls even reactivate in the first place? I can predict that you'd say that it's because original Namekian was reborn but no. No he wasn't. Piccolo Jr is not Demon King Piccolo and main difference it makes is the fact that unlike his father Junior is of the Warrior Clan. He can't produce offspring, can't heal and most importantly can't form Dragon Balls. This is important as Namekian Fusion should more appropriately be called absorption. We don't create new Namekian per see. We have basically the absorber who retains all basic things about his body. Yes it has some decent power boost to it and it does influence the mind but not things like special abilities. And if original Son of Katas was Super Namekian AND Dragon clan member the "reborn" Kamicollo was Super Namekian and Warrior clan member. Neither Kami nor Piccolo but also not the original nameless Namek. Thus BS balls shouldn't react to him. OK back to plot holes... Why the fudge does those Dragon Balls scatter? Why across the Galaxy? I mean scattering of earth DBs was intentional step Kami took in order to make their search a quest of hope. There was no reason for Nameless to do the same on grander scale especially with... The freaking planet obliteration. Seriously the funk? Why the hell did Nameless put that in? Even if he did make them subconsciously he would base that on Namek's version which I remind you IS NOT BLOWING UP PLANETS. And that's just the first Saga. Baby saga was relatively free of Plot holes but I would find some asspulls here and there like Goku's tail or Bulma suddenly making machine to bypass the need of tail (which is BS since whatever was in the tail triggered the transformation with enough energy provided). And it's sad that Baby from actually interesting Vengeance motivated character turned into another omnicidal wannabe Galactic Dictator. Seriously if that what's Tuffles regards as justice I'm actually glad Sayians killed the off. Super 17 existence is by itself an outcry of BS... Seriously HOW DO YOU BUILD SUCH BEAST WHILE IN HELL? And capable to control his lookalike from another dimension to boot. Black Dragons... Ok only one major gripe... Why they use those exact wishes there? There was way more than 7 wishes done up to this point especially if you count Garlic Jr. Immortality (which is Canon to anime).
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Post by jkrevan on Sept 15, 2016 4:47:24 GMT
To be honest i really like GT after all, and despite what everyone says, GT has actually next to no plot holes, ass pulls for sure, but all is "explained" and tied in universe. Oh really? Sorry but you just pressed my "analysis button"... Let's get this started shall we? First of all... Why the heck no one ever found out about BS (hey I like this acronym xd) Dragon Balls before? For the F sake they used Dragon Radar at least twice since Piccolo and Kami fused. Why, in fact do those dragon balls even reactivate in the first place? I can predict that you'd say that it's because original Namekian was reborn but no. No he wasn't. Piccolo Jr is not Demon King Piccolo and main difference it makes is the fact that unlike his father Junior is of the Warrior Clan. He can't produce offspring, can't heal and most importantly can't form Dragon Balls. This is important as Namekian Fusion should more appropriately be called absorption. We don't create new Namekian per see. We have basically the absorber who retains all basic things about his body. Yes it has some decent power boost to it and it does influence the mind but not things like special abilities. And if original Son of Katas was Super Namekian AND Dragon clan member the "reborn" Kamicollo was Super Namekian and Warrior clan member. Neither Kami nor Piccolo but also not the original nameless Namek. Thus BS balls shouldn't react to him. OK back to plot holes... Why the fudge does those Dragon Balls scatter? Why across the Galaxy? I mean scattering of earth DBs was intentional step Kami took in order to make their search a quest of hope. There was no reason for Nameless to do the same on grander scale especially with... The freaking planet obliteration. Seriously the funk? Why the hell did Nameless put that in? Even if he did make them subconsciously he would base that on Namek's version which I remind you IS NOT BLOWING UP PLANETS. And that's just the first Saga. Baby saga was relatively free of Plot holes but I would find some asspulls here and there like Goku's tail or Bulma suddenly making machine to bypass the need of tail (which is BS since whatever was in the tail triggered the transformation with enough energy provided). And it's sad that Baby from actually interesting Vengeance motivated character turned into another omnicidal wannabe Galactic Dictator. Seriously if that what's Tuffles regards as justice I'm actually glad Sayians killed the off. Super 17 existence is by itself an outcry of BS... Seriously HOW DO YOU BUILD SUCH BEAST WHILE IN HELL? And capable to control his lookalike from another dimension to boot. Black Dragons... Ok only one major gripe... Why they use those exact wishes there? There was way more than 7 wishes done up to this point especially if you count Garlic Jr. Immortality (which is Canon to anime). 1> I file this one under "ass pull", you can easily say that these DB's had a different energy signature. 2> Where in the series it said that the scattering was by design? I get it DBM has stated that. but i dont remember such line. 3>Super 17 is another asspull, they just needed a villain to setup the pre-dragon saga. 4> iirc, there were 7 wishes done on EARTH dragon balls, the rest were non canon wishes(movies) (Garlic jr. wish was Selfish, and only selfLESS wishes spawned dragons if you wanna count that one), or Namek DB ones.
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Post by Axalon on Sept 15, 2016 14:33:20 GMT
1> I file this one under "ass pull", you can easily say that these DB's had a different energy signature. Except they use the Dragon Radar (and later Giru when he eats the Dragon Radar and gains its functions) to find the bloody things once they start the Grand Tour. Given that the Dragon Radar can easily pick up both Earth and Namekian Dragon Balls, it's safe to assume that all DBs emit the same type of energy. It isn't until DBS with its planet sized Super DBs that Bulma actually invents a newer model of dragon radar (and that's because she has to scan the entire universe to pinpoint locations.)
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Post by Kirasha on Sept 15, 2016 15:57:53 GMT
The Black Star Dragon Balls shouldn't even been active because their original creator, aka the Nameless Namekian, did not exist anymore. Similarly when Kami disappeared after fusing with Piccolo, the regular Dragon Balls went inert, requiring Goku to go to New Namek and fetch Dende so to reinstate the normal Dragon Balls. That right there is the biggest plot hole right of the bat, the Black Star Dragon Balls couldn't possibly be active because Kamiccolo is not the Nameless Namekian, and considering the Dragon's power, Dende is by far not powerful enough to recreate them (considering Nameless > Dende in terms of power), not to mention Dende would never allow a set of Dragon Balls that could destroy the planet of which he is a guardian.
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Post by Jaquan on Sept 15, 2016 16:04:32 GMT
Oh really? Sorry but you just pressed my "analysis button"... Let's get this started shall we? First of all... Why the heck no one ever found out about BS (hey I like this acronym xd) Dragon Balls before? For the F sake they used Dragon Radar at least twice since Piccolo and Kami fused. Why, in fact do those dragon balls even reactivate in the first place? I can predict that you'd say that it's because original Namekian was reborn but no. No he wasn't. Piccolo Jr is not Demon King Piccolo and main difference it makes is the fact that unlike his father Junior is of the Warrior Clan. He can't produce offspring, can't heal and most importantly can't form Dragon Balls. This is important as Namekian Fusion should more appropriately be called absorption. We don't create new Namekian per see. We have basically the absorber who retains all basic things about his body. Yes it has some decent power boost to it and it does influence the mind but not things like special abilities. And if original Son of Katas was Super Namekian AND Dragon clan member the "reborn" Kamicollo was Super Namekian and Warrior clan member. Neither Kami nor Piccolo but also not the original nameless Namek. Thus BS balls shouldn't react to him. OK back to plot holes... Why the fudge does those Dragon Balls scatter? Why across the Galaxy? I mean scattering of earth DBs was intentional step Kami took in order to make their search a quest of hope. There was no reason for Nameless to do the same on grander scale especially with... The freaking planet obliteration. Seriously the funk? Why the hell did Nameless put that in? Even if he did make them subconsciously he would base that on Namek's version which I remind you IS NOT BLOWING UP PLANETS. And that's just the first Saga. Baby saga was relatively free of Plot holes but I would find some asspulls here and there like Goku's tail or Bulma suddenly making machine to bypass the need of tail (which is BS since whatever was in the tail triggered the transformation with enough energy provided). And it's sad that Baby from actually interesting Vengeance motivated character turned into another omnicidal wannabe Galactic Dictator. Seriously if that what's Tuffles regards as justice I'm actually glad Sayians killed the off. Super 17 existence is by itself an outcry of BS... Seriously HOW DO YOU BUILD SUCH BEAST WHILE IN HELL? And capable to control his lookalike from another dimension to boot. Black Dragons... Ok only one major gripe... Why they use those exact wishes there? There was way more than 7 wishes done up to this point especially if you count Garlic Jr. Immortality (which is Canon to anime). 1> I file this one under "ass pull", you can easily say that these DB's had a different energy signature. 2> Where in the series it said that the scattering was by design? I get it DBM has stated that. but i dont remember such line. 3>Super 17 is another asspull, they just needed a villain to setup the pre-dragon saga. 4> iirc, there were 7 wishes done on EARTH dragon balls, the rest were non canon wishes(movies) (Garlic jr. wish was Selfish, and only selfLESS wishes spawned dragons if you wanna count that one), or Namek DB ones. Ok. Ad. 1 Axalon basically answered that one for me but yes. Without Tinkering Bulma was able to pick off Namek Dragon Balls so it's safe to assume all DB have same energy signature. If they didn't then... How the heck Pilaf found them? Ad. 2 Wowsie. Almost thought it's gonna be hard (just kidding no offense meant). But First of All Kami himself noted he created Dragon Balls to give hope. Yes it's bit vague but one could imagine the need of seeking them as part of that purpose. Second and more definite thing is how Namek Dragon Balls acted. After Porunga granted third wish they simply followed Guru. They returned to their creator and original owner. Yes I am aware that Chou Dragon Balls scatter but I doubt Kami knew about them. All he had vague memories of were Dragon Balls on his home planet so you'd think "Return to your creator after being used" mode is default for him. I have nothing to add on 3. But yes Super 17 is a big asspull. Ad. 4 Ok... Nope. There were actually 10 wishes we know for sure in Dragon Ball up to the end of Buu saga made with earth DBs. Let me recount them 1. Oolong Panty Wish (grey area, selfish wish for selfless reasons nevertheless resulted in Shenron) 2. Revive of Bora 3. King Piccolo wish for eternal youth. (Selfish wish but resulted in birth of Nouva Shenron) 4. Revival of KP victims. 5. Revival of Goku 6. Revival of Namekians killed by Freeza's men. 7. Revival of all people killed by Cell 8. Removal of 17 & 18 chest bombs 9. Reviving good guys killed during 25th Budokai10. Erasing of memories about Majin Buu's rampage. And Sadly Dead Zone movie is Canon for GT. As GT takes for canon everything that happened or was mentioned in the anime this also has to include Garlick Jr Saga which makes Dead Zone movie canon for DBZ anime. So we got 11 wishes (1 Selfish spawned Shenron) and only 7 Dragons... Why again?
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Post by sardorim on Sept 28, 2016 8:47:19 GMT
I ultimately enjoyed GT for what it was and SS4 is amazing.
I find it funny how the Son family are attracted to women with rich fathers.
Goku and Chi-Chi.
Gohan and Videl.
Goten and Valese.
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Post by Bryan/TheOTN on Sept 28, 2016 12:30:21 GMT
I have very brief opinions on GT. I think GT was good. Not nearly as good as it could have been, but tolerable, nonetheless. The first arc was very true to the original Dragon Ball and felt like a great return to the adventure and wonder of new discoveries that made Dragon Ball so fun to watch. Baby was a fantastic, FANTASTIC villain. SSJ4 was great. Krillin's death and the impact that it had on 18 was an amazing thing to see. The Shadow Dragons were a very good concept. However: GT could have been executed better, the continuity was very inconsistent, and there could have been MUCH more depth in terms of world-building and character development.
Overall, I still really like GT and I don't think it deserves all the crap people give it. At all. I give it a solid 7.5/10
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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 8, 2016 11:53:30 GMT
Pardon me but what you brought up were traits of DB Z not DB as whole. Essence of DB was adventure, quirky humor and a lot of gag moments. Censorship is unfortunate but unavoidable in current society. SSJ 4 was ridiculous both in form and concept itself (Mix First level SSJ and Oozaru and you get power greater than SSJ3 with no drawback? Cute) Ridiculing characters... Aside from his introduction Future Trunks was... Rather a weakling and cautious on the verge of cowardice (Being afraid to go after Androids without Goku, Giving up when Cell proved his "ultimate power" was jack worth it). And let's not forget that GT made anyone not named Goku borderline useless. And don't make me... Start my rant about Pan and Uub... I really don't like GT. I guess I'll never truly like it. Well, I don't share of your vision. I liked SSj4 design, it was very creative (better than SSj Red, Blue, White or Pink, right?). At least that design can justify itself by saiyans's monkey nature, there is a background involved, while current colored SSjs from DBS were only pulled out from ass. About drawbacks, well, SSj2 also don't possesses any drawback when compared to SSj1. The "drawback" here means that it is an elite level, where few achieve. And about Trunks, first, he did not gave up to Cell by cowardice. That was by his honor code. And in androids's case, he was still very young and unexperienced, but that badass Trunks who returned from past and killed tha cyborgs would NEVER act like that Trunks from DBS. I really can't understand those who complain about GT and don't do the same about DBS. The "sins" of DBS are light-years worse than GT. That last sentence made me give you my respect.
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Post by Jaquan on Oct 11, 2016 4:17:26 GMT
Baby huh? Definitely one of the things I find best describe GT. Tons of wasted potential. Putting all the power scaling horse crap aside (like base GT Goku being on Buu's level) this guy kinda picked my interest. Sure his motives weren't truly original (Raichi existed long before though was only known in Japan at that time) but gave him potential to be good morally grey adversary for Goku and crew. And then it all was thrown outside the window. Suddenly all of this interesting aspect was gone and Baby turned into bland omnicidal maniac bent on dominating the whole universe. Felt as if someone in Toei said "Goku's loosing the moral high ground! Quick turn Baby into typical villain". I'll openly admit that at this point GT became irredeemable for me. I admittedly didn't have much fun with it before due to it lack of identity (trying to be original DB with big stakes like in Z didn't work out well for BS DB saga) but I didn't really cross it out yet.
People ask why I don't bash on DBS as much since its flaws are way bigger than GT but... I didn't feel it that way. Maybe it's because each arc knew what it tries to be and kept true to it. Maybe do to it capturing the nature of first DB when they wanted to do so. I just enjoyed it better. While there wasn't much tension in U6 tournament arc there was still something in me that kept saying "I want to see more of it" at the end of each episode. And I honestly like Villain duo of Black and Zamasu. Yes they are just another "kill them all" villains but done with surprising care, something I somehow can't find in GT where villains are either "Evil because we're made to be evil" or starts of as something seemingly more but ends up reduced to classic "evil overlord" all of the sudden. But hey it's just my opinion and like everything on the Internet it's pretty much irrelevant.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 11, 2016 4:25:09 GMT
Baby huh? Definitely one of the things I find best describe GT. Tons of wasted potential. Putting all the power scaling horse crap aside (like base GT Goku being on Buu's level) this guy kinda picked my interest. Sure his motives weren't truly original (Raichi existed long before though was only known in Japan at that time) but gave him potential to be good morally grey adversary for Goku and crew. And then it all was thrown outside the window. Suddenly all of this interesting aspect was gone and Baby turned into bland omnicidal maniac bent on dominating the whole universe. Felt as if someone in Toei said "Goku's loosing the moral high ground! Quick turn Baby into typical villain". I'll openly admit that at this point GT became irredeemable for me. I admittedly didn't have much fun with it before due to it lack of identity (trying to be original DB with big stakes like in Z didn't work out well for BS DB saga) but I didn't really cross it out yet. People ask why I don't bash on DBS as much since its flaws are way bigger than GT but... I didn't feel it that way. Maybe it's because each arc knew what it tries to be and kept true to it. Maybe do to it capturing the nature of first DB when they wanted to do so. I just enjoyed it better. While there wasn't much tension in U6 tournament arc there was still something in me that kept saying "I want to see more of it" at the end of each episode. And I honestly like Villain duo of Black and Zamasu. Yes they are just another "kill them all" villains but done with surprising care, something I somehow can't find in GT where villains are either "Evil because we're made to be evil" or starts of as something seemingly more but ends up reduced to classic "evil overlord" all of the sudden. But hey it's just my opinion and like everything on the Internet it's pretty much irrelevant. Existence of GokuBlack/Zamasu saga already blows anything GT ever did out of the water by far. However we have the problem that: BoG and RoF sagas (not the movies!) were objectively far worse than anything in GT, mostly because their futility: we already had the movies with generally better animation, and no great plot innovation came out of the extended length of such movies. Tournament saga is DBZ filler tier at best. Other world tournament when Goku died with Cell was more entertaining than it, IMO:
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Post by dragonfather on Oct 12, 2016 19:02:54 GMT
I actually like GT. It was what almost everyone wanted. The adventure elements and campiness of Dragonball, and the over-the-top fights/transformations of Dragonball Z. It has its faults (Gohan somehow losing Mystic, Goku being the sole focus, etc.), but I think it was a great sequel series to DBZ. I have watched a little of Super, while watching BoG and RoF. I just can't stand it. The animation looks strange, the characters have started doing things that are out of character (Vegeta dancing!?!?!), and why bring back Frieza? It just seems like a bad fanfic idea. Having said that, Super seems to have...(I don't want to say stolen) borrowed story ideas from different fanfics. The idea that the Saiyan God needs so many SSJs to help with the ritual sounds awfully familiar to Toyble's DBAF story element of Dragonballs needing so many SSJs to recharge them ahead of them. (Which was an interesting way to link 2 alien species). And the multi-Universe tournament is obviously a reference to DBM.
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