??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Apr 5, 2020 22:52:19 GMT
I wouldn't be opposed of that happening, but at the same time if it doesn't lead anywhere I would kind of just let them slink back to their universe with their tails between their legs. Nothing against Universe 8, but we have some other stories going on that I feel like we could have these guys leave already like with Universe 6. I would rather read a mini-comic or fan fiction form of how Freeza and Cooler deal with Ginyu.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on Apr 9, 2020 5:38:17 GMT
If Universe 8 contestants survive I would be pretty thrilled to see what happens if they were dumped back home and had to handle their pseudo papa, and maybe the Revelation Coola wanted to murder his whole dynasty.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2020 12:55:10 GMT
What are people’s opinion for Freeza after Babidi’s rebellion? I honestly thinks he and his family should leave. They don’t add anything to the story anymore and I think the joke has sufficiently been beaten into the ground at this point. Do people feel Freeza and his family need to stay in the comic until it ends? Since Ginyu jumped from one Kaioshin to another to kill them, maybe the wish after this is over is to return everyone to their original bodies? That might revert Ginyu back to whatever weak alien body he was born with and they immediately kill him before he could body change. That would be a sad ending for him but I can't think of what Freeza and Cold could do if Ginyu is revived in Cold's body.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Apr 10, 2020 19:54:51 GMT
What are people’s opinion for Freeza after Babidi’s rebellion? I honestly thinks he and his family should leave. They don’t add anything to the story anymore and I think the joke has sufficiently been beaten into the ground at this point. Do people feel Freeza and his family need to stay in the comic until it ends? Since Ginyu jumped from one Kaioshin to another to kill them, maybe the wish after this is over is to return everyone to their original bodies? That might revert Ginyu back to whatever weak alien body he was born with and they immediately kill him before he could body change. That would be a sad ending for him but I can't think of what Freeza and Cold could do if Ginyu is revived in Cold's body. I wouldn’t oppose that idea. I’m even fine with Universe 8 having to settle in a Cold War front. Ginyu and the brothers are aware of each other but have little they can do right now. Ginyu may never kill Freeza or Cooler because he plans to steal one of their bodies once they naturally surpass the Cold body so he can continue his reign in a stronger body. Cooler and Freeza know they cannot defeat Ginyu since he has mastered their dad’s body and is much stronger. There may be no end for these character or a showdown that won’t happen until centuries later in their universe.
|
|
??????
|
Post by SuperVegeta on Apr 10, 2020 21:17:39 GMT
Since Ginyu jumped from one Kaioshin to another to kill them, maybe the wish after this is over is to return everyone to their original bodies? That might revert Ginyu back to whatever weak alien body he was born with and they immediately kill him before he could body change. That would be a sad ending for him but I can't think of what Freeza and Cold could do if Ginyu is revived in Cold's body. I wouldn’t oppose that idea. I’m even fine with Universe 8 having to settle in a Cold War front. Ginyu and the brothers are aware of each other but have little they can do right now. Ginyu may never kill Freeza or Cooler because he plans to steal one of their bodies once they naturally surpass the Cold body so he can continue his reign in a stronger body. Cooler and Freeza know they cannot defeat Ginyu since he has mastered their dad’s body and is much stronger. There may be no end for these character or a showdown that won’t happen until centuries later in their universe. Even Though I Like Frieza a lot, Universe 8 always seemed boring to me. It would have been much more interesting if Salagir had gone with a more "Ressurection of F" style for U8. Maybe Something like this: In Age 766, the Frieza and Cooler Forces ally with each other too to bring back their fallen Frost Demons leaders. They travel to New Namek and and blackmail the namekians into reviving Frieza, Coola, and King Cold. As for 2 wishes, I'll leave it up too you guys. They train to surpass The Z fighters and unlock new augmentation forms as a result. Coola could have a 6th form, Frieza a 5th form, and King Cold a 5th form (though he'd be stronger than Coola). Frieza would split of from king cold after finding out his dad was going to accept a SAIAYN to replace him, and Coola would happily watch the fallout. They would each attack earth unbeknown to Goku and The gang. This could lead to an all-out BRAWL between the Z fighters, the Androids (including Gero, 19, and maybe Cell) and the Frost Demons. I think Frieza and Co. would win by sending out fodder soldier's to tire the Heroes out, and The Frost Demons would finish them off. This could benefit Gero, 19, and Cell greatly though, absorbing them to get stronger. Then their would be the Big Showdown: Frost Demons Vs. Androids.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Apr 19, 2020 17:29:27 GMT
I get sort of finding Universe 8 boring, but I think that is just the result of it being hard to write for weaker villains into this story and making them relevant. Unlike U19 they don’t have a unique gimmick/fighting style to make them stand out. U19 seemed like a waste for people, but this rebellion was their chance to shine and they won a lot of people over to their inclusion into the story. Unlike U9 who also have weaker fighters they don’t have a potentially interesting history where they defeated stronger enemies with teamwork and clever tactics. Unlike U3 they don’t have cool history in their universe that make for good specials. Despite U8 characters being schemers and trying to do things from behind the scenes they are so evil all the characters know they are up to something and when we see them try to get away with anything they are stopped easily because they are so weak.
Really there is not a whole lot they can do in the story. So much is against them that it is hard for U8 to really do much in the story at all. I can’t imagine how this Universe would contribute to the plot when this rebellion is done. I certainly can’t see a scenario were they help the others fight the multiverse level threat when that finally starts up. Some people are hoping Captain Ginyu will do more when he gets revived or steal someone else’s body, but it feels like that wouldn’t be terribly interesting either.
|
|
??????
|
Post by drewsaga on Apr 22, 2020 5:40:40 GMT
I wouldn’t oppose that idea. I’m even fine with Universe 8 having to settle in a Cold War front. Ginyu and the brothers are aware of each other but have little they can do right now. Ginyu may never kill Freeza or Cooler because he plans to steal one of their bodies once they naturally surpass the Cold body so he can continue his reign in a stronger body. Cooler and Freeza know they cannot defeat Ginyu since he has mastered their dad’s body and is much stronger. There may be no end for these character or a showdown that won’t happen until centuries later in their universe. Even Though I Like Frieza a lot, Universe 8 always seemed boring to me. It would have been much more interesting if Salagir had gone with a more "Ressurection of F" style for U8. Maybe Something like this: In Age 766, the Frieza and Cooler Forces ally with each other too to bring back their fallen Frost Demons leaders. They travel to New Namek and and blackmail the namekians into reviving Frieza, Coola, and King Cold. As for 2 wishes, I'll leave it up too you guys. They train to surpass The Z fighters and unlock new augmentation forms as a result. Coola could have a 6th form, Frieza a 5th form, and King Cold a 5th form (though he'd be stronger than Coola). Frieza would split of from king cold after finding out his dad was going to accept a SAIAYN to replace him, and Coola would happily watch the fallout. They would each attack earth unbeknown to Goku and The gang. This could lead to an all-out BRAWL between the Z fighters, the Androids (including Gero, 19, and maybe Cell) and the Frost Demons. I think Frieza and Co. would win by sending out fodder soldier's to tire the Heroes out, and The Frost Demons would finish them off. This could benefit Gero, 19, and Cell greatly though, absorbing them to get stronger. Then their would be the Big Showdown: Frost Demons Vs. Androids. Idk, it would have been interesting to see Frieza and family pose a challenge in the tourney and honestly Ginyu/Cold played his part, he was able to hold his own against Base U16 Bra (which is around low-SSJ2 level) but I can't imagine it realistically happening. Frieza and Cooler's only ambition is to become the next ruler of the universe and I do think that in U9 Cooler was somehow able to overthrow Cold and become the sole emperor (Cold being in his 2nd Suppressed form while Cooler has the 1st Augmented transformation) but he also has to contend with Frieza, who is as strong as him within the same transformation. So Cooler and Frieza aren't really likely going to get much stronger, they will grow stronger slowly with age. Ginyu/Cold is a fighter so he was able to push himself, maybe he was the one that went and dealt with the Android himself without Frieza or Cooler even knowing, I mean is Frieza really going to tell his dad off if he is in his sector, it didn't work out well when he did it to his own brother in U9. DBM sort of had the right idea of having Zen Buu granting Frieza and Cold some leverage with either magical abilities or simple deception. But I think that could have been done better, especially in Frieza's case.
If I wanted to make a better fight between Goku and Frieza more interesting though in DBM's setting, I would have written him to have U4 Buu grant him the magic ability to negate transformations like Super Saiyan (since that is part of the story, why not?). Without Frieza needing to be a major powerhouse he would be a threat to any Saiyan with that ability except for U16 Bra and Vegetto at the very least. This would have made the fight very interesting because we know that Goku in DBM is still weaker than Frieza without Super Saiyan transformation, but he is so much stronger than during the Frieza Arc anyways and with Kaioken it would have been a spicy matchup. But if Frieza was any stronger than he was in the Frieza Arc by a wide margin, forget it since Goku would get curbstomped like he did on Namek before he unlocked SSJ. But it would be amazing if Goku's skills and tenacity triumphs Frieza's power and anatomy advantage without needing SSJ at this point in time.
I disagree about U9, I think there is potential for an interesting story there in terms of how all the characters met up without Goku and how they coordinated to defeat their opponents or how they learned how to do it since teamwork is something that takes time and practice.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Apr 29, 2020 21:34:02 GMT
One thing that confuses me is why the Frost Demons haven’t been wiped out by Babidi in U8. Part of me thinks maybe instead of giving them their own universe that they should have been killed off or enslaved by Babidi. As much as I like U11 is the unseen timeline where Cell never traveled back in time to I do wonder if maybe we could have gotten Babidi universe easier in a universe where Freeza killed Goku and company on Namek. Earth would still be intact so Babidi would still find Buu’s shell.
Supreme Kai wouldn’t have allies to help him in this universe. The chances of him failing to stop Dabura are extremely high. Babidi would probably have to travel the universe to gain enough energy to awaken Majin Buu. Dabura is strong enough to defeat the Frost Demons and the Frost Demons are strong enough to steal energy to help revive Buu. They are evil enough that. Babidi deciding to enslave them isn’t out of the question.
Would anyone have been upset if instead of giving Freeza his own villain rule universe if he and his family just got enslaved by Babidi and U8 and U11 were rolled into one? Maybe the Ginyu subplot he stole Cold’s body and is training to become strong enough to defeat Dabura so he can kill Babidi and free his Master Freeza?
|
|
??????
|
Post by Eldagusto on May 2, 2020 9:53:12 GMT
Well Universe 8 probably had the Androids. Maybe when Babbidi and Dabura popped up Gero's Androids and Babiddi's Slaves killed each other. And there should be a crappo version of Cell there too.
|
|
??????
|
Post by SuperVegeta on May 3, 2020 3:38:45 GMT
Well Universe 8 probably had the Androids. Maybe when Babbidi and Dabura popped up Gero's Androids and Babiddi's Slaves killed each other. And there should be a crappo version of Cell there too. Babidi would have definitely won. Dabura would have had destroyed Weak Cell, 16, and any spare androids he had lying around. That would also be a good time to introduce #13,#14,#15 into the main story. Dabura could have had some trouble with numbers 19 and 20, with the ability to absorb ki, but Babidi could have stolen back all of the ki in their systems and killed them. With all of the red ribbon gone, babidi would probably have about 50% of Buu’s meter full and would either give up or keep looking for powerful people in the universe, and post dbm could come across The frieza force and we could have a special about that.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Jul 4, 2020 1:33:38 GMT
Xeno and Ashanark posted Salagir's responses to some questions on the Strength Ranking thread and now we know even after having their power enhanced that Freeza and Cooler are still weaker than 17 and 18 at their prime. That means Piccolo despite being much stronger still couldn't put them down without his new technique, which left him so drained he couldn't fight off Cooler. I know this will likely reignite the debate, but after reading that answer I feel like Frost Demon lore in DBM is hasn't benefited the story much at all and just made problems that Salagir has to work around to keep them in the story. Really thinking about it I think Universe 8 on a whole was played wrong. Ginyu stealing King Cold's body is a neat idea, but it is just a neat idea that ultimately was never really going to have a place in the grander story of DBM or even be a interesting story on its own. It felt like an idea that was thrown on the wall to see if it stuck and it just slowly starting falling off the wall until the only way to make the story have any meaning was to tie it to Bra's in someway. Like Axalon mentioned before Freeza still decided to train in U8 so he didn't need reduction forms anymore, but didn't get even a little stronger? It just starts to feel like Universe 8 on a whole wasn't well planned out and now the story is trying to bend over backwards with them to make it work.
In the light of that I feel like it would have been easier to buff up the whole family to a reasonable level and lost the Ginyu story altogether (I'm sorry guys, but I really don't think that story added to DBM overall). I know the decade DBM came out there was running gag of Freeza getting defeated easily and how much weaker he got to later enemies, but in a serious story that requires Freeza and his family to be somewhat decent antagonists that it is a bad fit. I think it is easier to write a story where Freeza survived his experience on Namek with his body intact, but almost dying there to a bunch of unknowns that randomly showed up out nowhere, would have been a reasonable excuse for why Freeza would start training in U8. Freeza training could spur Cooler and Cold to start training again too. The plot has decently strong fighters who can give us entertaining fights on their own and not need the plot to bend over backwards to make up for their being very under powered for the opponents the plot needs them to face.
|
|
??????
|
Post by NamelessSaiyan on Jul 5, 2020 13:02:13 GMT
U8 had the potential to be amazing with full-scale galactic battle between the siblings and some power increments but Salagir went for lolGinyu as its driving force instead of that.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Axalon on Jul 5, 2020 17:29:24 GMT
I wouldn't be opposed of that happening, but at the same time if it doesn't lead anywhere I would kind of just let them slink back to their universe with their tails between their legs. Nothing against Universe 8, but we have some other stories going on that I feel like we could have these guys leave already like with Universe 6. I would rather read a mini-comic or fan fiction form of how Freeza and Cooler deal with Ginyu. I wouldn't be opposed to this idea. It's been a while since some universes straight up just departed from the story anyway. U8 has more than served its purpose by now, as have other universes like U11. Heck even U3's just about run dry, with Bardock's Future Sight the only thing keeping that universe relevant these days too. A proper culling here and shrinking the overall character bloat is probably a good direction to go for DBM at this point.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on May 27, 2021 23:51:00 GMT
Almost a year later and it looks like U8 will stick around a little longer. I have no idea what the story is going to use them for next. I fear we are just going to get more Ginyu body stealing schemes. I’ve run out of patience with that crap. I really hope Vegetto going crazy isn’t the result of Ginyu stealing his body.
|
|
??????
|
Post by godjacob on May 28, 2021 2:10:31 GMT
Universe 8 and Frieza & Cooler's jobber status has only grown with time to the point I question the point of them still being here is.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Axalon on May 28, 2021 14:18:30 GMT
Universe 8 and Frieza & Cooler's jobber status has only grown with time to the point I question the point of them still being here is. As Son Pan said I imagine it's either more Ginyu Body Stealing or another attempt to steal the Dragon Balls. That or XXI is going to need some minions that can job to people so we get another Babadi-esque situation where they work for him/are forced to work for him because EVIL.
|
|
??????
|
Post by godjacob on May 28, 2021 17:26:59 GMT
Universe 8 and Frieza & Cooler's jobber status has only grown with time to the point I question the point of them still being here is. As Son Pan said I imagine it's either more Ginyu Body Stealing or another attempt to steal the Dragon Balls. That or XXI is going to need some minions that can job to people so we get another Babadi-esque situation where they work for him/are forced to work for him because EVIL. Ah yes cause those wouldn't be tired story ideas to justify their inclusion.
|
|