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Post by Drakthul on Dec 30, 2018 14:13:52 GMT
I'm pretty pumped to see it in theatres. I'm just not sure if I'm seeing it on the 16th or the 18th yet. But I'm definitely excited.
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Post by Drakthul on Dec 30, 2018 14:26:26 GMT
I'm pretty pumped to see it in theatres. I'm just not sure if I'm seeing it on the 16th or the 18th yet. But I'm definitely excited. YEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRR I feel like it's been a MINUTE since I've seen your name. How you been?I'm doing alright. I'm on vacation at the moment. I've not had as much time for... anything, as I work a lot. :\
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Post by Drakthul on Dec 30, 2018 14:36:27 GMT
I'm doing alright. I'm on vacation at the moment. I've not had as much time for... anything, as I work a lot. :\ Damn, I feel ya. You'd best enjoy this vacation then! No. No you can't make me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 19:45:10 GMT
I'm pretty pumped to see it in theatres. I'm just not sure if I'm seeing it on the 16th or the 18th yet. But I'm definitely excited. Not gonna lie, while watching TFS' honourable mentions for DBcember this year they got me pretty amped in regards to the movies action scene/s and since I watched the first minute on a dodgy cam and could even tell through that at just how sexy smooth the animation is I think I might swallow my fragile pride and watch it at the cinema.
Yea yea I know, I'm a raging faggot hypocrite but my local only charges $10.50. Ya know, I also blame Aquaman breaking my Gold Class cherry.
Obviously that won't be $10.50 but I kept thinkin "FUCK YEA I AM SO GONNA WATCH BROLEH IN GOLD CLASS WOOOOO!"
That and I cbf waiting for a proper sub to come out.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jan 1, 2019 20:57:42 GMT
I saw the brolly movie. I'll make a thread to discuss any spoiler, aside from that it was AMAZING!
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Post by Axalon on Oct 22, 2019 21:59:56 GMT
So I'm almost a year late to this party but I finally had enough down time to watch this thing. I'm probably going to repeat a lot of what's been said already since I haven't bothered to read the thread but whatever. This is quite possibly the best production DBS has produced overall. There, I said it. Better than the Buu Saga too, though that's not a very high bar in my opinion barring a few good moments like Majin Vegeta's sacrifice. The Movie:However, everything to do with Bardock in the movie is just trash from Minus though, which I won't repeat my criticisms of here because it's Minus garbage. There's even a moment where Frieza decides to blow up the planet and Bardock suddenly appears completely battle-damaged, looking almost identical to OVA Bardock, trying to stop Frieza's blast with his own. It literally does come completely out of nowhere with no explanation as to how Bardock was even hurt to begin with and I believe is solely there to be an homage to the OVA. The Saiyans also made up half of Frieza's entire army apparently, but because he was spooked by the double legends of Super Saiyan and now Super Saiyan God he decides to blow up the planet. He doesn't mention it, but Beerus telling him to also blow it up is a factor as well. This probably isn't mentioned as to not portray Beerus in a villainous light, but I'll get to that.
That said, the early Broly parts were nice. Instead of being the one who narrowly escapes Planet Vegeta's fate he's actually already on another planet with Paragus and instead Goku is the one who narrowly escapes the planet blowing up. I kind of liked Beets, the non-combatant Saiyan with Paragus, shame he had to get killed so Paragus and Broly could have more supplies. King Vegeta is actually a bit more merciful in this version and doesn't try to murder Broly as well, instead exiling him to a barren planet with Paragus following. Paragus still hates King Vegeta of course.
What's interesting is that Gine says that it's not like Saiyan men to be concerned for their children but so far King Vegeta, Paragus and Bardock have all displayed these qualities. As these are the only Saiyan fathers we've ever seen so far 100% of Saiyan men seem to care for their children. Perhaps these three are just exceptions to the norm, since after all this is a race that shoots their weak babies in pods to conquer distant worlds, even if there's only 28 or so planets left with life so what are they even doing?!
The art style and animation I think is really good. If DBS had always had even HALF this caliber of animation and quality it'd be looked upon a bit more favorably I think. It wouldn't fix any writing issues of course, but it would at least LOOK better. It's like comparing late ToP to the first Beerus fight with Goku in DBS at King Kai's. Major jump in quality. The animation is smooth too, and overall looks really good. The timeskip between Goku arriving and the present day is nicely done, very quick runthrough of Goku and Vegeta growing up and then sparring in the present.
I do like that Whis is still trying to egg Goku on into taking over as the next GoD, even if Goku still refuses. It wasn't just some one-time comment, Whis is still trying to convert Goku (or Vegeta) into becoming a GoD. Then HOLY CRAP Goten actually appears for a scene. I don't think he has any dialogue, or if he did it was maybe one line, but he actually still exists. Goten does better than Gohan in this movie, who has no scenes at all! At any rate the DBs get stolen by some low-level Frieza henchmen right after Vegeta calls Goku an idiot about a dozen times for thinking Frieza's going to be nice to them or something.
Bulma reveals she had planned on using them to make her 5 years younger, with Goku realizing she's been doing this for a little while now to progressively be a bit younger instead of going for the sudden transformation to complete youth. This then transitions to Frieza of all people revealing that USEFUL wishes like not being harmed or being immortal "wouldn't be fun" essentially, and that his REAL wish is to be 5 centimeters taller. One of his new minions even points out that he could just use one of his other forms but no, he wants to be that tall in his FINAL form. But not all at once, since it's a companion joke to Bulma's.
Oh how Frieza has fallen.
So they head off to the south pole to get the last DB. Goku, Vegeta, Bulma, even Whis tags along. Beerus stays behind to take a nap and is saddled with taking care of Bra. I guess because Piccolo isn't here so SOMEONE has to be a babysitter.
Oh how Beerus has fallen.
Still, he's at least doing something as opposed to the absolute nothing he normally does so...progress?
Even more progress! Frieza actually brings up the plot point about them being able to sense high battle powers approaching Earth! He knows this because he remembers from the last time he went to Earth! ...It still doesn't explain how no one noticed Goten or Trunks going SS1 ever, but at least DBS Broly establishes that this is still a thing. So I guess he plans on just making a wish every few years to get taller? He says he wants the appearance he's still growing. He even says a little bit later that he hadn't even planned on fighting at first and only changed his mind after finding Broly a bit later on, meaning he was literally just going to run in, make his wish, and then run out.
So some scouts find Paragus and Broly and I guess they fixed the flaw about scouters exploding since after they hit 100,000 the scouter just stops instead of going over that tiny level and blowing up in their face. They take them to Frieza and there's some moments with the crew. Paragus still has the controlling mechanism like in the DBZ movie but it's just a shock collar and not some mind control crown. ...How did he make it? What kind of metal is that strong that someone with at LEAST 100,000 BP when he's not even fighting not be able to break something like that? How can such a simple device even harm someone with at least 100,000 BP (and probably much higher since the scouter stopped measuring at 100k) resting?
All along we thought Bardock was the lousy fighter but a brilliant scientist, but in reality it was Paragus! I did like the detail about Broly never having had actual ordinary water before, having survived on egg yolks and bug juice for liquids.
So let's fast forward to Earth. Frieza arrives, talks with Goku/Vegeta, Broly attacks them. A comment is made that the only person he's ever fought has been Paragus in sparring matches and that fighting someone as weak as Paragus isn't worth anything.
Uhhhh.
Frieza, you got stronger than SSG Goku in literally four months of training by beating up not-Zarbon. Come on now.
So while all this is going on Vegeta has been fighting Broly and progressively been transforming. He starts off in base, and eventually gets pushed to SS1. Broly is still in base. Then apparently he's still able to tap into the Oozaru boost despite having no tail. This boost is enough to start winning against a now SSG Vegeta, who decided to just skip over SS2 entirely and jump straight to a god form to deal with him. You'd think, at the time, that SS2 would've been enough of a strength boost but apparently Vegeta wanted to be better safe than sorry.
But now this powerup, which the wiki is telling me is called "Wrath State" but I will just call not-Oozaru, is enough to make Broly stronger than SSG Vegeta? Vegeta even asks for a senzu bean! This was before Broly had powered up again mind you. He was actually so concerned about Broly that not only does he go straight to SSG from SS1, he's the one asking about senzus!
Then Goku decides to hop in and fights Broly...in base form? Granted he doesn't last very long but he's actually able to hold his own extremely briefly before being overwhelmed, even matching Broly's initial punch when Vegeta was already a SSG. How he did that, I don't know. I'm going to chalk it up to looking cool because at that point in the fight it doesn't make any sense, should've had his arm broken for trying something like that. So Goku gets his ass kicked and then suddenly Piccolo out of nowhere.
Well he's not actually there he's just having a mental conversation from halfway across the planet or where ever he is. Seems like a useful skill to have used in a tournament dealing with power of some kind. Hmmmm. At any rate, Goku makes a mental note that he'll just IT to him if he has to do a quick escape, with Piccolo confused about what even is going on with this new ki (Broly) that he's sensing. He says that he'd just be in the way so no point in him joining the fight.
...Damn what a sad fate for my favorite DB character. There's no Piccolo Saves The Day moment in THIS movie! Nope, he's just standing there half a planet away saying how he'd just be in the way. Ouch. I mean it's true with his power level and all, but still.
So then Goku goes SSB and Broly is actually just fine fighting even SSB Goku for a while at that level too even though Goku uses his trademark bite attack. So then Frieza decides to kill Paragus to trigger Broly into going SS1 or Berserk I guess or whatever Kale's transformation is called. I'm surprised they don't MENTION Kale in this. She hasn't been forgotten, since we see Kefla for a second standing alongside a bunch of other ToP fighters when Goku reminisces about it earlier, so no comparison between her and Broly? At all?! Goku even says they've never fought a Saiyan like Broly before? ...Really? I actually have some thoughts on that which I'll detail later.
So Vegeta decides enough is enough and that they need to team up--again with these odd decisions by Vegeta, normally it's Goku shouting these things, but Broly is now stronger than the two of them combined. Well not literally combined, but you know what I mean. So the two fly by Frieza and Broly is so berserk now that he just attacks Frieza because and then Goku ITs over to Piccolo and Piccolo's purpose is AT LAST REVEALED! He's there to be the escape rope and show Vegeta how to fusion dance by demonstrating with Goku! Yes that is his sole function in this movie, that and saying how useless he is in a fight like this. Sigh.
While this is going on though, Frieza is still fighting Broly. 30 minutes pass because Vegeta messed up the dance. Frieza is still fighting Broly. 30 more pass because Vegeta messed it up again and Frieza is still fighting Broly. Finally the two get it right and IT back to Frieza. Broly has randomly decided to go attack WHIS of all people giving Gogeta just enough time to give Frieza some exposition about fusion since the only type he's seen is the potara back in the ToP...though given how incredulous he sounded at the concept it's possible he straight forgot about Kefla. Or Toriyama did. ANYway...
Gogeta takes over from Whis clowning around with Broly, then they apparently break into another dimension or something. I don't understand this. It doesn't get explained at all and they break out again shortly after. I'm going to chalk it up to wanting a cool setpiece location. Broly transforms again into something resembling his MAXIMUM DBZ self which actually forces Gogeta, who prior to this had been using SS1, to go SSB. They break out and Gogeta is about to kill Broly but then whats-her-face gets Shenron to send Broly back to his planet in the nick of time.
Shenron is also apparently back to doing only ONE wish again. Got no explanation for that, that's just weird. Perhaps Toriyama forgot?
So Frieza is about to kill Broly's fleeing friends but is stopped by Gogeta. He then essentially shrugs, says he'll be back, then leaves and Gogeta just watches and lets him. That's an...odd move considering Frieza brought Broly here to kill them and they're seemingly okay with this but whatever. Then Goku later visits Broly again and gives him and his two friends some food and a capsule house on the condition that he gets to fight Broly every now and then. I assume the Goku side of Gogeta was just so happy that he found Broly and that Broly survived and he could fight him later that he could override the Vegeta side of him that likely wanted to just murder Frieza on the spot. He even gives Broly his Saiyan name too. Shame Vegeta wasn't around to hear it. Also, poor Broly probably doesn't even know that Goku fused into Gogeta. He probably thinks Gogeta is just this other person who randomly showed up and kicked his ass. Character Comparisons:Let's start with the obvious one. DBZ Broly.Both were designed by Toriyama (except DBS Broly's final form), and in all honesty I like DBZ's design better--at least in terms of their MAXIMUM form. When it comes to not-MAXIMUM I actually prefer DBS Broly with the Frieza Battle Armor, but when comparing MAXIMUM BROLYS I gotta say DBZ comes out on top. I just like the red and the fancy boots better than the green fuzzy ear that DBS Broly wears. The story DBS Broly had for his fuzzy skirt was a nice one though. Which brings me to their personalities...DBS Broly is absolutely more human than DBZ Broly is by far. DBZ Broly was essentially a meat puppet practically lobotomized by Paragus and only grew beyond that upon going MAXIMUM, where he went from lobotomy to absolute psychopath. DBS Broly is actually more of a person when not in full enraged mode, but actually has even less of a vocabulary than Second Coming Broly when he gets pissed off. SC Broly at least screamed the occasional "KAKAROT" every now and then. This Broly is just a full-on rage monster more akin to an animal than DBZ's psychopath. Both of them have their merits. DBS is more animalistic, reflected in the shock collar Paragus uses to keep him in line. He may go berserk, but he isn't EVIL like DBZ's is, he just has a really, really, really bad temper problem. Finally we come to power. Now obviously DBS is the stronger version, that goes without saying. DBZ's had a different feeling about him though. DBZ was The Legendary Super Saiyan. DBZ revels in his power and uses it with great delight against those weaker than he is. DBS isn't the legend, though with his power he certainly could become one. He's a berserker who I don't think realizes how strong he ever actually is because he's so out-of-control. DBZ trolled those aliens by looking like he was going to kill them all, then twisted his ki blast at the last second to blow up their planet before their very eyes instead because that's how he rolls. DBS is just very pissed off and attacks literally anyone in his way. Goku, Vegeta, Frieza (who even screams "Hey wait a minute I'm Frieza, your boss, no!"), even Whis becomes a target. I like to think he was actually attacking Bulma but Whis protected her by having Broly focus on him instead. I have no proof of this whatsoever, just a little headcanon. In essence, while DBS is obviously a berserker, DBZ felt more like a juggernaut, and not because he was invulnerable to harm like DBM. DBS of course has some moments where he just tanks some attacks because that's just a thing in DB, but with DBZ it was more pronounced. DBS Broly got punched around a bit, even if it didn't look like it hurt him all that much, but with DBZ he just did not care one bit. I suspect the only reason DBZ Broly even dodged any attacks at all was because he felt like dodging, not because he thought he needed to. He's kind of a troll like that. He'll slowly walk your way while you throw the kitchen sink at him and then suddenly he's blitzing you and you find yourself on the receiving end of a clothesline into a nearby wall. DBS is going to just go at you 100% all the time all the way. I think both versions do what they set out to do. I initially thought DBS was just going to copy DBZ and up his power level but they essentially reinvented the character. Kale:For those of you who actually read my movie spiel you'll remember that I had questioned why there was no reference to Kale at any point during this, especially given that we see Kefla among many other multiverse fighters when Goku comments on the ToP briefly in the movie. To me it seemed an obvious comparison, especially since DBZ Broly never happened. But then Goku said they'd never fought a Saiyan like Broly before and it got me thinking. While yes they both go berserk and bulk up...that's really the only similarities the two have. If anything, Kale has much more in common with DBZ Broly than DBS Broly, which being a deliberate nod to DBZ Broly was the entire point of Kale of course. DBS Broly on the other hand is just some abnormal mutant with immense power who can still tap into his Oozaru powerup without a tail. His exponential power growth is nothing like Kale's bursts, which is why Goku comments on Broly being so different. That's my take on it. Beerus:The only reason I've even brought him up as a comparison character at all is because Goku had to go and compare his power level to Beerus and that Beerus telling Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta goes unmentioned here. I said earlier this was likely because they don't want to cast him in a villainous light...because all he does here aside from napping is babysit Bulma's daughter. Obviously we long-time watchers will know that nothing is likely to come of this, but people who have only watched BoG and RoF or people who haven't watched them at all might think it's a plot thread when really it's just babysitting. At any rate, Goku claims that Broly may in fact be stronger than Beerus. What makes this tricky is that Toriyama completely ignored both the anime and manga powerups entirely in this movie. There's no Kaioken stacked on top of SSB, no Mastered SSB, or either of Vegeta's new forms from the anime/manga either. The highest Goku or Vegeta ever go is just plain SSB, which Broly defeats before he even gets to MAXIMUM. Another monkey (heh) wrench in the works is Frieza. We'll get back to Beerus in a bit. Frieza: It's played off as a somewhat humorous fact that he was fighting Broly for over an hour while Goku and Vegeta learned how to fusion dance, but the guy still fought Broly for an hour. I thought this was a joke or an exaggeration at first when people kept telling me this, but it's quite literally an hour. This is far longer than the sum total of Goku and Vegeta's many rounds against Broly. In fact, Frieza fought Broly for longer than the entire ToP duration! Frieza was not kidding when he said he had eliminated the energy drain associated with his Golden Form during the ToP. RoF Frieza would've collapsed long ago. In fact, he only ever powers down once Gogeta stops him from killing Broly's friends after the fight is already over. Frieza ALSO makes a comment about "No matter how hard I try to raise my battle power, my foes are still Son Goku and Vegeta". So has Frieza been training even more offscreen? He did say he initially wasn't even planning on fighting them until he found Broly earlier in the movie, suggesting that he was perhaps waiting for a new height in power before challenging them again, especially after seeing UI Goku. So for all we know he either hasn't trained at all and is the same as ToP Frieza, or he's surpassed that entirely and is far stronger, but looked pathetic since he had the misfortune of fighting Broly of all people. It's hard to tell. We do know that he was able to fight and survive against Broly for an hour, which is longer than what Goku or Vegeta in their SSB forms were seemingly able to do as Vegeta was asking about senzus even before going SSB. Frieza endured this for an hour. If we were to assume, for the sake of argument, that he hasn't grown an ounce stronger since the ToP (I think he has, since he tied with SSB Goku just before the ToP, the same one who got his ass kicked here), it would mean that Broly in that form wasn't as punishing as, say, GoD Toppo. Toppo blasted the gold off of Frieza with one (admittedly poorly focused, according to Beerus' commentary later on) HAKAI. From there he's about to crush Frieza's head like soda can. It wasn't until the end of an hour that Broly was able to beat Frieza down enough to the point that Frieza just kind of stopped moving in his little crater and glared back in response, still in Golden Form, saved further punishment by Broly attacking Whis and Gogeta arriving on the scene. "But Axalon, Broly isn't even full power yet!" I know. Bear with me. The only other reference point for Broly's full strength is of course Gogeta, who forces Broly to transform one final time. The shattering INTO a dimension is weird though. Broly's final form didn't do that with Gogeta, since he only transformed again after the fact. Likewise Gogeta himself was only SS1 at the time as well. The only other time we've ever seen DB characters go into a dimension, as opposed to shouting their way out from the time chamber like in the Buu Saga, was in the anime ToP when Jiren and Goku were pushing a Spirit Bomb at each other. It was nonsensical then and I'm calling it nonsensical now. Jiren and UI Goku never punched their way into a dimension and there's no way SS1 Gogeta is stronger than UI Goku. I think it's there to look cool, not attribute power. But if you absolutely must take it seriously, then the punches are likely the equivalent of an extremely suppressed Jiren and then SSB Goku trying to push a Spirit Bomb onto each other at the least. I don't take it seriously and see it as a setpiece, so whatever. So bringing this all the way back to Beerus...I don't actually think Broly is stronger. Not yet anyway, even with Goku's statement of how he "might" be stronger. He certainly has the potential to do so and with some training I think easily could surpass him, but right now? Nah. For one, Goku has never seen Beerus at 100% of his power. Secondly, Frieza and Goku both see Broly as a good potential rival. If Broly were actually stronger it would mean Frieza himself is now getting comparable to Beerus as well. We've seen Frieza fight a newborn GoD and it did not end well for him at all. So yeah, I'm not buying it. Broly wasn't even able to push Goku hard enough to go UI, where Jiren did. My stance is that Beerus could actually take Broly. Beerus himself at the end of the movie didn't even seem all that concerned as he was watching the entire battle from afar while drinking a pina colada or something. Contrast this with him standing up at seeing UI Goku or his nervous reactions to other things during the ToP and you'll see a much more calm Beerus here. Lack of Powerups:Last but not least I wanted to briefly talk about the lack of any powerups in the movie. Specifically, those exclusive to both the anime and the manga. SSBKK, MSSB, Evolved SSB, none of that shows up here. The complete absence of all of these things makes me think that both the anime and the manga are guilty of greatly exaggerating Toriyama's initial outlines. Take Broly's final form for instance. Toriyama didn't make that. That was fanservice by Toei to get him to look like classic DBZ Broly, meaning as Toriyama envisioned it, Broly didn't have that final powerup transformation.
The Goku Black saga is another example. As originally planned, Goku and Vegeta would simply team up as SSBs and defeat Merged Zamasu. Toyotaro then changed that to them literally joining together into Vegito for fanservice, in turn ramping up Merged Zamasu's power far beyond simply Goku and Vegeta as a response. Contrast DBZ BoG with DBS BoG. One of them has the universe about to be destroyed by some punching, and it's not the original DBZ version. So in Toriyama's mind, all the exclusive anime/manga powerups most likely don't exist at all, and Toei likely wasn't able to convince him to use them for DBS Broly. To him it most likely goes SS1-SS3 -> SSG -> SSB -> UI, with SSB being as strong or as weak as the plot needs it to be without building onto the form with Kaioken or Mastered SSB or whatever. Thank you for listening to my TED Talk.
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