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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Dec 14, 2021 23:28:00 GMT
Ha fair enough, came off as more of a Super hater than I meant to. Glad they gave Kaio a bigger role and I do think Super did some things better than DBM, such as the future Babadi situation for example. Not trying to talk anyone out of liking Super, just not my cup of tea.
I’m all for established characters getting more development as long as it isn’t pulled straight out of left field and has some reason behind it but I know that isn’t always the case, even with Z.
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Post by Skarr on Dec 15, 2021 0:51:24 GMT
Hmm sounds like the typical DBS bs of taking older things from DB cannon and changing/retconning them from older established DB media just to try and explain some new stupid reason as to why the gods in DBS were so strong but not present in Z for some reason. And also to why they didn’t keep Buu in check for some reason. Not a fan of that kind of writing and it’s why I don’t care for Super overall I guess. To be fair, there might've been an explanation for why Grand Kaioshin/Mr Buu performed better than Goku and Vegeta but I don't remember all the details. The Moro arc was mostly written by Toyotaro who acknowledged that fans are willing to accept more from Toriyama since he's the original author. As a former fan manga artist, he probably knew he had to give an explanation or he'd get called out for it. You are free to dislike Super if you want, but in one arc it made the Grand Kai more useful than frankly he has ever been presented in DBM. I easily prefer that version of him than the joke we've gotten here. Something interesting I noticed is that the Moro arc is actually longer than the main story of DBM! The slow release makes fan comics seem longer I guess but not many ever reach the length of an official saga.
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Post by godjacob on Dec 15, 2021 1:25:33 GMT
Ha fair enough, came off as more of a Super hater than I meant to. Glad they gave Kaio a bigger role and I do think Super did some things better than DBM, such as the future Babadi situation for example. Not trying to talk anyone out of liking Super, just not my cup of tea. I’m all for established characters getting more development as long as it isn’t pulled straight out of left field and has some reason behind it. I mean, the Kaioshin were introduced out of left field. They just appeared in the Buu Arc and were a retroactive addition to the god hierarchy. So it is hard for their history to not feel that way even before Super. Super just attempted to make the Grand Kaio feel like a Grand Kaio
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Dec 15, 2021 2:28:36 GMT
Ha fair enough, came off as more of a Super hater than I meant to. Glad they gave Kaio a bigger role and I do think Super did some things better than DBM, such as the future Babadi situation for example. Not trying to talk anyone out of liking Super, just not my cup of tea. I’m all for established characters getting more development as long as it isn’t pulled straight out of left field and has some reason behind it. I mean, the Kaioshin were introduced out of left field. They just appeared in the Buu Arc and were a retroactive addition to the god hierarchy. So it is hard for their history to not feel that way even before Super. Super just attempted to make the Grand Kaio feel like a Grand Kaio Ehh I get what you’re saying as most new sagas in any series is going to have new characters introduced most of the time. Ones that even come out of no where at times but they can still work if introduced right. Could say that about most new characters that weren’t introduced at the start of any story I suppose. Im getting way off topic here but what I meant is for example do you think the Supreme Kais introduced in the Buu saga created as many or more issues and questions about already established things in canon as let’s say Beerus did when he was first introduced in BOTGs? You’d think an all powerful god like himself who’s life was linked to the Supreme Kais would have been a little more active and even shown up to end things when Buu was busy murdering all the Kais, not to mention that he had an even more powerful attendant that did every thing short of wiping his ass for him. So Whis also could have easily intervened instead of letting Beerus possibly die if Buu would’ve killed all the Kais like he almost did without much issue. I obviously know it’s because Beerus and Whis were introduced after the whole Buu ordeal and theres the lame Beerus was sleeping excuse but that’s the sort of out of left field that I meant that I’m not a fan of. Just creates more questions for the sake of making super strong characters that had no presence before when they had good reason to be around before. Not even mentioning other retcons just these two new characters alone brought with them, don’t think the Supreme Kais showing up in the Buu saga really shook up DBZ canon like that all that much. Super just introduces so many insanely OP characters that it’s hard to keep up with it at times ha. But like I said I shouldn’t have brought it up as I don’t know enough about Super recently to argue all that much. I do like that they built on Dai Kaio though and I’ll have to read some more on that.
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Post by godjacob on Dec 15, 2021 5:25:57 GMT
I mean, the Kaioshin were introduced out of left field. They just appeared in the Buu Arc and were a retroactive addition to the god hierarchy. So it is hard for their history to not feel that way even before Super. Super just attempted to make the Grand Kaio feel like a Grand Kaio Ehh I get what you’re saying as most new sagas in any series is going to have new characters introduced most of the time. Ones that even come out of no where at times and they can work at times for sure. Could say that about most new characters that weren’t introduced at the start of any story. Im getting way off topic here but what I meant is for example do you think the Supreme Kais introduced in the Buu saga created as many or more issues and questions about already established things in canon as let’s say Beerus did when he was first introduced in BOTGs? You’d think an all powerful god like himself who’s life was linked to the Supreme Kais would have been a little more active and even shown up to end things when Buu was busy murdering all the Kais, not to mention that he had an even more powerful attendant that did every thing short of wiping his ass for him. So Whis also could have easily intervened instead of letting Beerus possibly die if Buu would’ve killed all the Kais like he almost did without much issue. I obviously know it’s because Beerus and Whis were introduced after the whole Buu ordeal and theres the lame Beerus was sleeping excuse but that’s the sort of out of left field that I meant that I’m not a fan of, just creates more questions for the sake of making super strong characters that had no presence before when they had good reason to be around before. Not even mentioning other retcons just these two new characters alone brought with them, don’t think the Supreme Kais showing up in the Buu saga really shook up DBZ canon all that much. Super just introduces so many insanely OP characters that it’s hard to keep up with it at times ha. But like I said I shouldn’t have brought it up as I don’t know enough about Super recently to argue all that much. I do like that they built on Dai Kaio though and I’ll have to read some more on that. Don't disagree, a new character introduced retroactively is always gonna have this problem. Beerus not doing anything or Whis during the Buu crisis when it could've led to Beerus death is questionable. At the very least with Beerus, they explicitly mention that stepping in to stop an evil being and save the day is not his job and he is mentioned as being exceptionally lazy even among other GoD. So it's presented as least a character flaw, even if more for comedic gags than anything else. The Kaioshin though, but Shin's own account in the canon, could effortlessly beat the likes of Frieza and are allegedly tasked with watching over the Universe. Given Shin seemed to do better against Majin Buu than a rusty adult Gohan, I bet he alone could've killed every threat below Perfect Cell himself with minimal strain. Much less with Kibito or the other Kaioshin. Yet did literally nothing as Frieza subjected or destroyed entire worlds on a whim, did nothing about the Saiyans, did nothing about the Earth threats such as the Red Ribbon Androids & Cell. They have no excuse for not doing anything if they were supposedly around as long as they have been, and that becomes more annoying on a personal level since we are suppose to view these guys as sympathetic and earnest in their mission to protect the universe. Yet their constant inaction seems to suggest the opposite, which is the problem with this retcon.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Dec 15, 2021 6:09:31 GMT
That’s true, I can appreciate them at least trying to build on the characters and their traits in Super when they can to make them fit better in older canon.
As for Shin not killing Freeza or anyone else at his threat level I don’t remember if it was actually mentioned in canon or not if someone like Freeza would even warrant the Other World, let alone Supreme Kai stepping in to intervene. And as bad as Freeza was he wasn’t blowing everything up and killing gods so I could see him flying under Shins radar as he was focused on the bigger picture with dealing with Buu who would end everything potentially. Maybe if Cell had been around longer Other World might have taken action but not even North Kai knew he was a thing until Goku showed up on his planet with him and that’s even Norths jurisdiction.
Now why the dumb ass didn’t move Buus ball to a safer location is beyond me but I guess Babadi could have taken him by surprise and beat him to it. So not saying he did the best job, pretty terrible in hindsight actually. But he was mostly by himself all that time with all the other Supremes dead.
Heck for all we know the other Kais may have stepped in and ended threats like Freeza etc but we’ll never know sense they were long dead before his time. Agreed though that Shin still should have been more proactive but the universe is a big place and he didn’t seem all that impressive in the all seeing god department, almost like he fell into the job. If anything he should have appointed more attendants than just Kabito that could have helped keep a closer eye on other things in the universe while he obsessed with Buu.
Really can’t defend him all that much on what the hell he was doing in those millions of years between Buu and when DBZ took place though so I’ll give you that one. Especially if he knew where Buus ball was the whole time. Only thing I can come up with is he saw no reason to reveal himself before and was focused on more important things in the universe sense he still was the head of the gods technically that even most other gods never had the pleasure of meeting. With so many beneath him that were charged to watch things for him.
The Kais were also good about being rather pretentious at times and even arrogant towards those lower than themselves. Having seemingly no problem in letting things they saw beneath them be dealt with by lesser Kais or even mortals as well. Even though they should have payed more attention, Shin even admitted he should have been more alert about what went down on Earth and that he should have recruited the Saiyans sooner to stop Babadi or something along those lines anyway. Unless that was just a dub line I’m remembering. Mortal life spans are also a drop in a bucket compared to these beings actual life spans so I think they just look at things in a different way than most mortals would.
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Post by Skarr on Dec 15, 2021 16:24:44 GMT
I mean, the Kaioshin were introduced out of left field. They just appeared in the Buu Arc and were a retroactive addition to the god hierarchy. So it is hard for their history to not feel that way even before Super. Super just attempted to make the Grand Kaio feel like a Grand Kaio The Kais and Kaioshin were based on the Hindu guardians which also had ten gods. Although the ranking was different but that's where he based on the idea of there being more gods above the Kais. The Kaioshin were pretty powerful in the original series since Buu was the known being in history to threaten them. Dabura was more powerful than some Kaioshin but apparently kept to himself in the Demon Realm. I think Grand Kaioshin's role in the Moro arc was just to reveal that Uub inherited most of his god ki. I don't recall they really did anything against Moro and only stalled him before he used the Dragonballs. It might be like a last hurray for Mr Buu since he didn't appear in the next arc and may not appear in the movie which takes place only a few months before EoZ. As for Shin not killing Freeza or anyone else at his threat level I don’t remember if it was actually mentioned in canon if someone like Freeza would even warrant the Other World, let alone Supreme Kai stepping in to intervene. And as bad as Freeza was he wasn’t blowing everything up and killing gods so I could see him flying under Shins radar as he was focused on the bigger picture with dealing with Buu who would end everything potentially. I think the Kaioshin don't intervene in the natural order of the universe. In the grand scheme of things, Freeza would die in a few hundred years (or few thousands depending how long his lifespan is) so nature would run its course eventually. Buu was immortal and no one at the time could stop him destroying the entire universe then Other World if he found his way there.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Dec 15, 2021 16:45:16 GMT
“ Skarr” That’s actually what I was thinking, you just explained it better ha. Freeza being a ruthless space dictator is horrible and he deserved to die but he wasn’t killing at a level where the universe wouldn’t recover and he’d most likely be gone in the next few hundred years like you said. So no reason for godly intervention I suppose in their eyes or it just being beneath them entirely. I’m sure they’ve probably lived through an unknown amount of space dictators over the eons and just let the mortals take care of it and figured the universe would just correct itself eventually most likely. Where as Buu messed everything up completely for them. Not to mention killing at a rate that most mortal races would probably never recover from, especially because he tended to destroy most planets he was done with. Shin may really have had some major PTSD from that shit with seeing his fellow gods die, when they thought they were so infallible for so long. Probably goes with out saying that most likely really affected how he ruled and his decision making there after. The guy acted so piss scared and paranoid with even some of Babadis weaker soldiers, even though he should have been able to one shot them himself but he was probably right in being over cautious when dealing with magic at Babadis level. Unlike how the Saiyans acted in Babadis ship, completely treating it all as a joke until Buu smacked them back to reality. That’s also why I think the duo of Future Trunks and Shin works so well together, both aren’t there for any nonsense. Do wish DBM had gone that route with the future Majin attack as i’v brought up before.
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Post by godjacob on Dec 15, 2021 18:36:58 GMT
I mean, the Kaioshin were introduced out of left field. They just appeared in the Buu Arc and were a retroactive addition to the god hierarchy. So it is hard for their history to not feel that way even before Super. Super just attempted to make the Grand Kaio feel like a Grand Kaio The Kais and Kaioshin were based on the Hindu guardians which also had ten gods. Although the ranking was different but that's where he based on the idea of there being more gods above the Kais. The Kaioshin were pretty powerful in the original series since Buu was the known being in history to threaten them. Dabura was more powerful than some Kaioshin but apparently kept to himself in the Demon Realm. I think Grand Kaioshin's role in the Moro arc was just to reveal that Uub inherited most of his god ki. I don't recall they really did anything against Moro and only stalled him before he used the Dragonballs. It might be like a last hurray for Mr Buu since he didn't appear in the next arc and may not appear in the movie which takes place only a few months before EoZ. As for Shin not killing Freeza or anyone else at his threat level I don’t remember if it was actually mentioned in canon if someone like Freeza would even warrant the Other World, let alone Supreme Kai stepping in to intervene. And as bad as Freeza was he wasn’t blowing everything up and killing gods so I could see him flying under Shins radar as he was focused on the bigger picture with dealing with Buu who would end everything potentially. I think the Kaioshin don't intervene in the natural order of the universe. In the grand scheme of things, Freeza would die in a few hundred years (or few thousands depending how long his lifespan is) so nature would run its course eventually. Buu was immortal and no one at the time could stop him destroying the entire universe then Other World if he found his way there. Nah the purpose was to explain where Moro has been since he was retroactively introduced as a threat predating Majin Buu, and how if Grand Kaio and the Kaioshin could stop him how did they fail to stop Buu. Which as far as forced retcon enemies least gave the Kaioshin their one highlight in this series thus far. Uub getting God Ki was just a bonus development all things considered. Frieza's literal goal was getting immortality, something he only failed in because of the Z-Fighters stepping in to stop him. What happens if he had gotten it? They just throw their hands in the air and go "sucks to be you", this also assumes that is their thought process when nothing in the canon suggests that to be the case. Hard to buy these guys as protectors of the universe when 99% of problems they can't be buggered to care about.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Dec 15, 2021 19:26:51 GMT
Oh for sure that would have been a massive duck up on the Kais part had Freeza gained immortality and they should have stepped in imo at that point. I just don’t think any of the true higher ups in Other World paid close enough attention to know what was actually going on in the northern part of the universe as they were shocked that a basically extinct race that is the Saiyans could even surpass Namek level Freeza. Let alone knowing how strong the few survivors that were left by the time of the Buu saga ended up being. Or even them not realizing the true monster that Freeza could have been had he actually gained his immortality as you brought up.
As I said I agree Shin did a bit of a botched job as Supreme Kai, understaffed and not paying attention to things that could have been huge threats to the entire universe such as Freeza gaining immortality. But this all happening in the span of a few years could just feel like days to them.
For example I always think of when Dabura and Babadi were so shocked at Gokus strength after he went SSJ to fight Yakon. Dabura swore that there was no one even close to this strong on the planet when he checked like 300 years ago. 300 years is a long ass time for you and me and plenty can happen in that time obviously. But to beings that live for millions upon millions of years, it probably happened pretty fast so to speak in their eyes. And with the gods of DBZ not being all seeing/knowing like typical gods in other works of fiction are, it’s not surprising that they missed a lot of shit. Especially sense they went from 5 Supreme Kais over seeing things before Buu happened to just one relatively green horn Supreme Kai over seeing things.
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Post by Skarr on Dec 15, 2021 20:23:30 GMT
Nah the purpose was to explain where Moro has been since he was retroactively introduced as a threat predating Majin Buu, and how if Grand Kaio and the Kaioshin could stop him how did they fail to stop Buu. Which as far as forced retcon enemies least gave the Kaioshin their one highlight in this series thus far. Uub getting God Ki was just a bonus development all things considered. I meant Grand Kaioshin taking over Mr Buu's body to fight Moro. If Buu stayed asleep throughout the arc, it probably wouldn't have made a difference. Grand Kaioshin reappearing and failing to stop Moro explained where his remaining God ki went. The arc was mostly self contained but the main change to the status quo was the reveal about Uub. I think that plot point might've come from Toriyama since it affects EoZ. That's true. I don't think Shin was an effective Kaioshin but he was the youngest and least experienced when the rest were killed or absorbed. To his knowledge, he probably didn't think there could be a way for anyone to become immortal. Freeza wouldn't have gotten his wish though since he needed to know the password and speak Namekian to fulfill it. By the time the Z fighters arrived, Freeza already had five Dragonballs. He would've ended up killing all the Nameks or spend time trying to figure out how they worked until they were deactivated from Guru passing away.
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Post by Son Pan on Feb 10, 2022 17:47:33 GMT
I have given up on U1 Grand. He is nerfed and made ineffective. My only hope is U10 Grand is more in line with his canon portrayal and he comes in and helps.
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Post by godjacob on Feb 10, 2022 18:32:09 GMT
I have given up on U1 Grand. He is nerfed and made ineffective. My only hope is U10 Grand is more in line with his canon portrayal and he comes in and helps. Yeah no lie hearing him verbally and practically suck off Zen Buu sort of cemented him as a giant joke. This is not the same guy who took on Majin Buu head on to protect his last disciple.
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Post by Skarr on Feb 11, 2022 14:22:51 GMT
I have given up on U1 Grand. He is nerfed and made ineffective. My only hope is U10 Grand is more in line with his canon portrayal and he comes in and helps. Well U10 Grand Kaioshin is identical so probably not. He still helped deal with all the major threats in U1 and U10. In line with his canon portrayal was forcing Buu to absorb him which happened in other universes. I would've liked for him to use his telekinesis or something in the MR but I wasn't expecting any of the Kaioshin to do much against strongest of the tournament.
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Post by Son Pan on Feb 14, 2022 4:32:29 GMT
I have given up on U1 Grand. He is nerfed and made ineffective. My only hope is U10 Grand is more in line with his canon portrayal and he comes in and helps. Well U10 Grand Kaioshin is identical so probably not. He still helped deal with all the major threats in U1 and U10. In line with his canon portrayal was forcing Buu to absorb him which happened in other universes. I would've liked for him to use his telekinesis or something in the MR but I wasn't expecting any of the Kaioshin to do much against strongest of the tournament. That's the thing, I never really expected the Supreme Kai to do much. I'm not upset because they failed, but that Grand never even attempted to help his subordinates. I loved how the other Supreme Kai tried to defeat Dabura without South even if the odds were against them. As they were fighting for their lives and doing their best to help everyone out, Grand just stayed out there watching. It just seems like such a far cry from the character who sacrificed himself to save East and attempt to stop Majin Buu over the development in U1 where he now sees everything as pointless and just trust Buu will fix everything. I would hope U10 Grand who didn't have a conversation with U4 Buu would see how U1 self has become so fanatically trusting of someone like Buu would cause him to take a different route from U1 Grand.
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Post by Skarr on Feb 14, 2022 19:32:38 GMT
That's the thing, I never really expected the Supreme Kai to do much. I'm not upset because they failed, but that Grand never even attempted to help his subordinates. I loved how the other Supreme Kai tried to defeat Dabura without South even if the odds were against them. As they were fighting for their lives and doing their best to help everyone out, Grand just stayed out there watching. It just seems like such a far cry from the character who sacrificed himself to save East and attempt to stop Majin Buu over the development in U1 where he now sees everything as pointless and just trust Buu will fix everything. I would hope U10 Grand who didn't have a conversation with U4 Buu would see how U1 self has become so fanatically trusting of someone like Buu would cause him to take a different route from U1 Grand. I do agree I would've liked for Grand Kaioshin to fight during the MR since that was probably would've been his only chance. I just don't think trusting this version of Buu means he's nerfed or his U1 counterpart would've done differently. He was fine with sending Broly and Babidi back to their universes but he felt differently about Zen Buu. Gast had Zen Buu contained so that would've been an opportunity to send him back if Grand Kaioshin considered him a threat and can't be trusted.
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Post by Son Pan on Feb 14, 2022 22:31:41 GMT
That's the thing, I never really expected the Supreme Kai to do much. I'm not upset because they failed, but that Grand never even attempted to help his subordinates. I loved how the other Supreme Kai tried to defeat Dabura without South even if the odds were against them. As they were fighting for their lives and doing their best to help everyone out, Grand just stayed out there watching. It just seems like such a far cry from the character who sacrificed himself to save East and attempt to stop Majin Buu over the development in U1 where he now sees everything as pointless and just trust Buu will fix everything. I would hope U10 Grand who didn't have a conversation with U4 Buu would see how U1 self has become so fanatically trusting of someone like Buu would cause him to take a different route from U1 Grand. I do agree I would've liked for Grand Kaioshin to fight during the MR since that was probably would've been his only chance. I just don't think trusting this version of Buu means he's nerfed or his U1 counterpart would've done differently. He was fine with sending Broly and Babidi back to their universes but he felt differently about Zen Buu. Gast had Zen Buu contained so that would've been an opportunity to send him back if Grand Kaioshin considered him a threat and can't be trusted. When I said nerfed I was more referring it seems as if Grand is weaker than Dabura in DBM canon. Dabura feels confident he can take them down without South. Grand never objects to this, but rather points out his death wouldn't really get them anything. It stands out as odd since in both DB and DBM lore Buu absorbed South and Grand, which implies they were the strongest fighters amongst the Supreme Kai and at least challenged Majin Buu enough that he felt the need to absorb them rather than outright kill them like he did with West and North. For any Supreme Kai to challenge Buu makes odd for one of them to be deemed weaker than Dabura. Granted Dabura is no weakling, but he just doesn't hold a candle to any form of Majin Buu. It seems like this was done intentionally for some reason.
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Post by dbmaccount on Feb 15, 2022 1:49:32 GMT
Always thought it was kind of funny how weak and useless these million year old gods were.
The Kais didn't contribute much to the plot of DBZ in general, really. None of their battle skills really helped any of the heroes.
So what I'm saying is that their incompetence in DBM is pretty accurate.
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Post by Skarr on Feb 15, 2022 2:44:05 GMT
When I said nerfed I was more referring it seems as if Grand is weaker than Dabura in DBM canon. Dabura feels confident he can take them down without South. Grand never objects to this, but rather points out his death wouldn't really get them anything. It stands out as odd since in both DB and DBM lore Buu absorbed South and Grand, which implies they were the strongest fighters amongst the Supreme Kai and at least challenged Majin Buu enough that he felt the need to absorb them rather than outright kill them like he did with West and North. For any Supreme Kai to challenge Buu makes odd for one of them to be deemed weaker than Dabura. Granted Dabura is no weakling, but he just doesn't hold a candle to any form of Majin Buu. It seems like this was done intentionally for some reason. Yeah I'm not sure how strong Grand Kaioshin is intended to be in DBM. I think it would've been fitting for him to fight Dabura since they're somewhat like counterparts. I'm just not sure if he's necessarily nerfed because the manga said that none of the Kaioshin were able to pull out the Z Sword implying they were all weaker than Gohan. Gohan was either in SSJ1 or maybe SSJ2 without sparks. It's only headcanon that the Kaioshin can't wield it in order to make South Kaioshin stronger than Gohan at the time. The manga didn't really explain why Buu decided to absorb South and Grand Kaioshin. In DBM, they assumed it was a defense mechanism but we've only seen South strong enough to do it. It's weird because the manga said South was the strongest Kaioshin so I'm not sure what Grand did to get himself absorbed by an even stronger Buu than the one who had just absorbed South.
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Post by Super-dee-Duper Veku on Feb 15, 2022 7:37:13 GMT
When I said nerfed I was more referring it seems as if Grand is weaker than Dabura in DBM canon. Dabura feels confident he can take them down without South. Grand never objects to this, but rather points out his death wouldn't really get them anything. It stands out as odd since in both DB and DBM lore Buu absorbed South and Grand, which implies they were the strongest fighters amongst the Supreme Kai and at least challenged Majin Buu enough that he felt the need to absorb them rather than outright kill them like he did with West and North. For any Supreme Kai to challenge Buu makes odd for one of them to be deemed weaker than Dabura. Granted Dabura is no weakling, but he just doesn't hold a candle to any form of Majin Buu. It seems like this was done intentionally for some reason. Yeah I'm not sure how strong Grand Kaioshin is intended to be in DBM. I think it would've been fitting for him to fight Dabura since they're somewhat like counterparts. I'm just not sure if he's necessarily nerfed because the manga said that none of the Kaioshin were able to pull out the Z Sword implying they were all weaker than Gohan. Gohan was either in SSJ1 or maybe SSJ2 without sparks. It's only headcanon that the Kaioshin can't wield it in order to make South Kaioshin stronger than Gohan at the time. The manga didn't really explain why Buu decided to absorb South and Grand Kaioshin. In DBM, they assumed it was a defense mechanism but we've only seen South strong enough to do it. It's weird because the manga said South was the strongest Kaioshin so I'm not sure what Grand did to get himself absorbed by an even stronger Buu than the one who had just absorbed South. Just some thoughts on my part but speaking of Grand Kaioshin being absorbed by the buff Buu. That Buu probably wasn’t as crazy and irrational as his kid counter part, not to mention most likely smarter as well (if only a little) so more than capable of planning I’m sure. Unfortunate that it wasn’t explained more in canon as I do like the idea of the two Kais being strong enough to threaten him in some way/Dai Kaio being able to because of a combination of his strength and magic better than Buu just randomly absorbing them, or even DBMs auto defensive mechanism take. And that Buu could most likely plan his absorptions at that point, at the very least after he absorbed South anyway. As to why Fat Buu never attempted to absorb anyone in canon I don’t think he was ever threatened enough to bother and try it. Even against SSJ3 Goku he was smiling most of the time and didn’t seem like he was trying all that hard, wanting the fight to continue when Goku had to call it off. Only times I can think of him getting a major beat down that would have warranted him using his absorption ability would be when he fought and lost to other Buus and ironically he ended up absorbed in a way after one of those encounters. Maybe like with what DBM really loves to show off lately with its take on magic. It’s possible that even if Dai Kaio was a bit weaker than South Kai, Kaios magic or abilities could have closed the gap or even made him superior to South in a way. Filler aside, as i’v brought up before thought it could be sort of implied Dai Kaio had some very impressive magic/abilities that may have put him above the others. That is if what we see Fat Buu magically demonstrate later was truly gained from Grand Kaioshins absorption anyway, as Buus magic was definitely much more impressive than anything East Supreme Kai showed off anyhow. So if Buu did indeed inherit it from absorbing fatso I’d say Dai Kaio was at a much higher level than East in that regard, maybe even the other Supreme Kais as well. Basically showing that the Supreme Kais could differ in more areas than just strength. Old Kai being sort of a weird case because of his whole fusion with a witch thing. Know it goes without saying Toriyama most likely didn’t go even close to that deep into thinking about any of this, especially sense it was the Buu saga so probably mostly all head canon on my part haha. But I mean Dai Kaio really could have been left stronger in DBM like he seems to be in canon and not affected things much more/still been mostly useless in the grand scheme of this comic. Also woulda been no question as to why Buu would have bothered to absorb him in the first place if that were the case as well, just seems unnecessary to make him weaker than Dabura. Unless there was something else in the French translation that lead Salagir to believe he was weaker for some reason but I’m not familiar with French. That damn Z Sword does create some other issues though.
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