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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 9, 2016 2:34:35 GMT
So he supported your argument... by proving it wrong? I'm beginning to like your way of thinking there bud.
I'm also beginning to understand why Genghis initially did not want to be a moderator lol. Guy, stop he's not worth it Just ignore him and keep the threads going so we don't end up 200 posts with this bs. For a guy who thinks using senzus during a tournament is not cheating you have a lot of mouth to say im not worth it.
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Post by The Masterman on Oct 9, 2016 2:39:52 GMT
Here it is, a place to go crazy with your power level lists and debate who's stronger than who. Modifiers, numbers, whatever you want! You get bonus points if you can use the manga to back up your argument. Common topics of discussion: 1. Arrange Buu's forms in order of power. While you're at it, is Super Buu stronger, or Kid Buu? (I say Super Buu.) 2. Is Dabura as strong as regular Perfect Cell, or Super Perfect Cell? Was Gohan SS1 or SS2 fighting him? (I say normal Perfect Cell, and SS1) 3. Is SS3 Goku stronger than Mystic Gohan? (I say Mystic Gohan's stronger.) 4. Which movie villain would beat who in a fight? 5. The Daizenshuu's power levels. The topic I want to start off with is the Daizenshuu's numbers for Super Saiyan transformations. It's not long, but I'll spoiler it anyway. The Daizenshuu guides were made after Dragon Ball finished, and are a bit like an encyclopedia for the series. Though not made by Akira Toriyama, they did have his approval. Therefore, many people take what they find in the Daizenshuu as Dragon Ball law. However, there are many places where I think what the Daizenshuu says and what we actually see happen doesn't match up. Case in point: the Super Saiyan modifiers.
According to the Daizenshuu, SS1 is a 50x multiplier over base. SS2 is double a Super Saiyan. SS3 is four times a SS2.
I really do not like these numbers. The only one that seems reasonable to me is Super Saiyan 1 being a 50x increase. Both SS2 and SS3 feel entirely wrong, and I'll tell you why.
DISCLAIMER: I don't like using numbers to determine power levels. It gets ridiculous. I instead prefer relative power levels--comparing somebody to somebody else.
To see how strong Super Saiyan 2 is, let's look at the Cell Saga: --Original SS Goku < Android 18 < Android 16 << Semi-Perfect Cell << Ascended Vegeta << Perfect Cell << Perfect Cell at max << SS2 Gohan. There's no way that's only a double increase in power from beginning to end.
Now let's look at Buu saga: --SS2 Teen Gohan < SS2 Goku/Vegeta << Kid Buu/SS3 Goku.
Gohan, as a SS2, could 1-shot a Cell Junior. Each Cell Jr. was as strong as Perfect Cell was when he fought Goku. So Goku at max ~ Perfect Cell = Cell Junior. And Gohan could 1-hit kill them. Goku, as a SS3, was about equal to Kid Buu. Kid Buu could beat the everliving crud out of SS2 Vegeta, but couldn't one-shot him. Despite Buu's efforts, Vegeta survived.
The point I'm trying to make here is that SS3 can't be a larger modifier than SS2, because the gap between original SS2 and SS3 is nowhere near as big as the gap between original SS1 and SS2. To me, the Law of Diminishing Returns hits SS3 very hard.
So: SS1 is a larger modifier than SS2, which is a larger modifier than SS3. SS3 can be a 4x modifier, but only if SS2 is a comparatively larger jump, like X10 or something.
I'd say Buuhan, Buutanks, Super Buu/Buu with piccolo, Fat Buu, Kid Buu, Evil Buu(the one that absorbed Fat Buu.)
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Post by The Masterman on Oct 9, 2016 2:49:26 GMT
Guy, stop he's not worth it Just ignore him and keep the threads going so we don't end up 200 posts with this bs. Nah, the thread is about Power Levels and debating them. He's kind of helping with that and not making it boring at least. It's just frustrating that he's not really making much sense and won't really argue back but insists on replying back.That and he can't handle being corrected. Anyways what do you think of my Buu strength chart? I think it's pretty close.
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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 9, 2016 2:50:30 GMT
[br He didn't prove me wrong the scan showed Buu getting stronger AND Goku nor Vegeta said anything about Buu getting weaker after becoming Kid Buu. Well whatever "[br" means...
Anyway, no, the scan showed Buu powering up temporarily and "shrinking." It was implied, but not flat out stated he was weaker due to the facts that:
1. He was pure. Free of absorptions. I struggle to understand how Buu got stronger by losing power. If you wouldn't mind explaining to help my (our) comprehension that would be just great. The only thing I've heard (not from you, you really haven't explained anything yet) is "He was the last Buu they fought!" and that is not a very proper explanation. It has nothing to do with Buu himself, and it's like saying Gohan was at his strongest (despite only having use of one arm as opposed to the two he had previously) when he beat Cell simply because it was the end of the battle.
2. As Ashanark explained, Goku was not willing to fight Super Buu by himself, but was comfortable doing so when he had reverted to his original form. If that doesn't suggest Kid Buu was at least weaker than Super Buu I don't know what does.
3. Goku did state he could have beaten Majin Buu on Earth with Super Saiyan 3, but he was dead at the time. If I recall, he said it was much easier to maintain the form in a dead body, but it drained the time he had in the living. So at least to me, it implies he could have beaten Majin Buu when he was dead, but not when he was alive. Now, he could defeat Kid Buu, even though he was not dead anymore. Again, this must mean Kid Buu is at least weaker than Buu.
4. Again, if I recall, Kid Buu managed to defeat Majin Buu on the Kai's planet, but Majin Buu was already exhausted before the fight began, while Kid Buu was much faster, and much more violent in his attacks than Majin Buu. He clearly had a physical advantage over Majin Buu if nothing else.
I'd appreciate it if you could argue my points rather than tell me you're right and I'm wrong "because Kid Buu was stronger." It's getting repetitive already. If you're not willing to do so then please just say so. Not like anyone here is gonna care one way or the other.Nope nope nope nope nope and ANOTHER 500lbs OF NOPES!!! 1. Ultimate Gohans energy was in the spirit bomb 2. Kid buu would wrecked that fat tub of lard 3. comicvine.gamespot.com/dragon-ball-universe/4015-56629/forums/akira-toriyama-finally-says-goku-was-the-strongest-1829225/#614.It was implied Vegeta is a fool since he jugded Kid Buu based on his size. "If don't have any food in your house why invite guest?" - The Perfect God.
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Post by The Masterman on Oct 9, 2016 2:59:26 GMT
That and he can't handle being corrected. Anyways what do you think of my Buu strength chart? I think it's pretty close. Mine was more simplistic but basically the same at the core. Yours goes into much more detail than the chart I made (being more specific and whatnot) so I like it, works very well.Thanks, I put Super Buu and Buu with Piccolo together because Piccolo was just an intelligence boost not a power boost because I remember Buu becoming more coherent after absorbing him. I think dbm made Full potential Gohan and base Vegetto the same because I remember Buu saying something about not changing, I could be remembering wrong though.
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Post by Archon on Oct 9, 2016 3:07:28 GMT
Counter argument for the stupid shit you implied (Buu becomes weaker with every next absorbee). And please, grow a pair, or you won't last very long here. You'll need it because if your legs start shaking everytime you make an outrageous claim and someone goes out of their way to correct you, they will expect some actual quotations or scans, not just your worthless scribles and 'opinions'. Victim attitudes, haughty "higher-than-thou" complexes and overall non-sense are not tolerated here. Take this as a first warning. You are not in any position to ask "wishes". Anyone can reply to you whether you like it or not as this is a public forum. Your omniscient now? How do you know my legs are shaking? He literally pulled up a scan i was talking about so he is actually supporting my argument. It isn't an opinion it is fact He provided three examples. If you looked at JUST the first one then yes it would make it look like he's agreeing with you. However the latter two images show that there was a change in Goku's attitude towards fighting Buu. The reason Buu got stronger for a moment is because he was in a transitional phase, his power wasn't under his control and he was reverting to a form where he had absorbed South Supreme Kai which he was apparently stronger in that form vs Super Buu. However once he was in Kid Buu form Goku was no longer worried about his power like he was when Vegeta suggested they go fight Super Buu. If you're going to ignore what people post just to cherry pick what agrees with you and continue to be stubborn then you're being pretty disingenuous. That's why you're annoying people. The whole point is to have a conversation here. If you're gonna get upset when someone corrects you or just because someone responds to your post then maybe this place isn't for you. Idk what to tell you man.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 9, 2016 3:13:45 GMT
Wow. Got another one trying to degrade other people's post. I thought we were done with that.
First off, don't go here if you're going to disrespect others. That's what youtube is for. Second. If you're going to go against official guides and actual quotes, then there's no need to comment here because at that point, you're just ignoring source material.
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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 9, 2016 3:20:44 GMT
"Nope nope nope nope nope and ANOTHER 500lbs OF NOPES!!!" Exactly what I'm talking about. You say "Nope, you're wrong." but can't bring yourself to really explain anything.
1. And what is your point exactly? The whole planet's power was in the Spirit Bomb, including Android 18's supposed "infinite energy." It was powerful, that's a granted. You didn't argue anything by saying that.
2. He's faster and more violent. He did defeat Buu, but I can't recall if Buu was exhausted before the fight or not. Can't bring myself to try and find the episode to watch it.
3. www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-4-akira-toriyama-best/
Akira Toriyama said this 20 years after DBZ ended if I'm reading this correctly. Before that he believed Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2 and Android 18's hair was purple. Even then, I can't find any real proof that Akira Toriyama was the one who stated this.
"Out of all your characters, which one is the most (blank)?
Cool: Goku
“I think it’s Goku.” The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
"Pure strongest in the Universe." Was Beerus and Whis created before or after this interview? It really doesn't confirm anything aside from that Akira Toriyama believes Goku, the main character of his series, is the coolest and strongest of the bunch.
4. For that specific instance yes, Vegeta was a fool. He was definitely weaker than the previous Buu, that's a granted, but if he believed Kid Buu was a pushover then yes, that's a foolish thing to believe. Still, this doesn't really offer anything to the argument at all as Vegeta being foolish says nothing of Buu's actual power. It is over. No proof degrades what Toriyama has said. It has been fun but im getting bored. I feel like Frieza prolonging this knowing i could of posted that link from the moment i replied to this thread.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 9, 2016 3:24:11 GMT
Q 3. Is SS3 Goku stronger than Mystic Gohan? (I say Mystic Gohan's stronger.) 4. Which movie villain would beat who in a fight? A 3. It comes down to experience I guess. Mystic Gohan may have raw power (potential) but since his desire to fight isn't as great as Goku's, I guess he wouldn't really know how to use it. => Mystic Gohan > SS3 Goku but Goku would have more experience to win. 4. Ooh boy this gonna be tricky. I wouldn't consider anything before Cooler's first movie appearance. Those guys were weaker than SS Goku (on Namek, not Cooler version where he was probably untrained.) Biggest one I was gonna go for was Broly (movie 8) vs Bojack. But then I remembered that Bojack movie had SS2 Gohan beat him, not Goku. Broly (Zenkai) > Bio Broly because Bio Broly was like Botamo, tricky to beat but not necessarily powerful. Also he was a corroding acidic monster. Only one left I got is Janemba vs Hildegarn. That one is hard. It took a Fusion to beat a magical being as Janemba... in Hell. Hildegarn took a SS3 Dragon Fist so that would raise the question between the two movies, was Goku SS3 stronger than Gogeta SS? As my favourite would say:"Damn boy,shoot!". On point 3, you mean to tell me that Goku's experience would win against someone who can literally kill him with a single punch?That's like taking away all of Saitama's fighting experience in his fight with Boros and still say Boros will win.Yeah, sure, Goku has Instant Transmission and can take Gohan into space and just leave him there, but I doubt he would ever do that to any fighter who can't breathe in space.In an actual fight to the death, if Goku absolutely has to kill Gohan, I guess he would win due to Instant Transmission, but in a sparring/K.O. match Gohan would barely have to fight.If people persist that Gohan is weaker, I guess I will have to start pulling power scaling/manga pages to prove myself, just like Ashanark. Okay yeah technical stuff like fighting in space is gonna be annoying, so hold off on that for a sec. (Oh wait. Bra already did that. lol. but I've digressed.) That is indeed true. Goku could just spam I.T. and dodge (no joke intended.) every attack Gohan makes. In hindsight, maybe experience was a poor choice of words. But I'd be glad to see examples of the manga pages (and unlike some others) accept that I'm wrong (Side note, even though BoG shouldn't be included or the power levels are gonna be thrown out of whack, why was Gohan knocked down so easily by Beerus if his (Gohan's) strength was greater than that of SS3 Goku who fell to two hits from Beerus?)
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 9, 2016 3:28:02 GMT
Wow. Got another one trying to degrade other people's post. I thought we were done with that. First off, don't go here if you're going to disrespect others. That's what youtube is for. Second. If you're going to go against official guides and actual quotes, then there's no need to comment here because at that point, you're just ignoring source material. Shhhhhh!!! YouTube is already bad enough. Comments wise. Don't encourage it! D:You're right. Maybe we should just ban those who make immature, obnoxious, or illogical comments (in power level pages) on the first strike just to have a better world... or probably ignore altogether comments that are rude degrading and insult. I'll wait and see XD
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Oct 9, 2016 3:35:16 GMT
"Nope nope nope nope nope and ANOTHER 500lbs OF NOPES!!!" Exactly what I'm talking about. You say "Nope, you're wrong." but can't bring yourself to really explain anything.
1. And what is your point exactly? The whole planet's power was in the Spirit Bomb, including Android 18's supposed "infinite energy." It was powerful, that's a granted. You didn't argue anything by saying that.
2. He's faster and more violent. He did defeat Buu, but I can't recall if Buu was exhausted before the fight or not. Can't bring myself to try and find the episode to watch it.
3. www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-4-akira-toriyama-best/
Akira Toriyama said this 20 years after DBZ ended if I'm reading this correctly. Before that he believed Super Saiyan 3 was Super Saiyan 2 and Android 18's hair was purple. Even then, I can't find any real proof that Akira Toriyama was the one who stated this.
"Out of all your characters, which one is the most (blank)?
Cool: Goku
“I think it’s Goku.” The always pure strongest in the universe. Goku is #1 after all!"
"Pure strongest in the Universe." Was Beerus and Whis created before or after this interview? It really doesn't confirm anything aside from that Akira Toriyama believes Goku, the main character of his series, is the coolest and strongest of the bunch.
4. For that specific instance yes, Vegeta was a fool. He was definitely weaker than the previous Buu, that's a granted, but if he believed Kid Buu was a pushover then yes, that's a foolish thing to believe. Still, this doesn't really offer anything to the argument at all as Vegeta being foolish says nothing of Buu's actual power. It is over. No proof degrades what Toriyama has said. It has been fun but im getting bored. I feel like Frieza prolonging this knowing i could of posted that link from the moment i replied to this thread. We really don't need more comments that stir up arguments and then just randomly disappear only to not partake in it ever again. If you would be so kind to provide evidence the next time you log into the forum so that we may all settle this debate,
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Post by The Masterman on Oct 9, 2016 3:52:31 GMT
Finally peace at last, anyways...
Strongest to weakest:
SS3 Goku, Mystic Gohan/SS3 Gotanks, SS2 Goku, SS2 Gotanks, SS2 Gohan, SS2 Vegeta, SS1 Goku, SS1 Gotanks, SS1 Gohan, SS1 Vegeta, Base Goku, Base Gohan, Base Gotanks, Base Vegeta.
And this is a guess btw.
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Post by Ashanark on Oct 9, 2016 4:51:56 GMT
Finally peace at last, anyways... Strongest to weakest: SS3 Goku, Mystic Gohan/SS3 Gotanks, SS2 Goku, SS2 Gotanks, SS2 Gohan, SS2 Vegeta, SS1 Goku, SS1 Gotanks, SS1 Gohan, SS1 Vegeta, Base Goku, Base Gohan, Base Gotanks, Base Vegeta. And this is a guess btw. There's a rumor floating around on the internet that Toriyama said Mystic Gohan (or "ultimate Gohan," or whatever you want) was the strongest unfused character in DBZ. I've looked far and wide for that quote, and it doesn't exist. However, I still think Mystic Gohan is the strongest Z-Fighter at the end of the Buu saga. My two main reasons are: 1. The manga page I posted earlier, where Goku is afraid to fight Super Buu without fusion, and 2. This page in the manga: Goku was afraid to fight Super Buu, but once Gotenks' fusion wore off, he said "Gohan himself could beat you now." So Goku wouldn't fight Super Buu alone, but he's willing to let Gohan do it. As far as I know there are a few reasons why people could think Goku was stronger: --in the Funimation dub scene of the very manga page I just posted, Goku says to Buucolo, "How do you expect to beat me like that?" which implies he could beat Buucolo and thus Super Buu. This is a Woolseyism that says the same basic thing on the surface ("you're in trouble now, Buu") but completely changes the meaning. --In Wrath of the Dragon, SS3 Goku takes several hits from 2nd form Hirudegarn and kills him, while Mystic Gohan was trashed. Either Goku had passed up Gohan by this point (unlikely), or the power levels in Wrath of the Dragon were baloney. (SS2 Vegeta and SS3 Gotenks both put up better fights than Mystic Gohan, and we know for sure than Gohan was stronger than both. Also, Videl survives a direct blast from 2nd form Hirudgarn, who was probably like a trillion times stronger than her, and that shouldn't be possible.) Or, third option, Goku understood Hirudegarn's weakness and still had enough fight left in him to take advantage of it. I've heard people say SS1 Gotenks = Goku SS3, but for the life of me I can't find any hard evidence to prove or disprove that.
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Post by The Masterman on Oct 9, 2016 5:04:40 GMT
Finally peace at last, anyways... Strongest to weakest: SS3 Goku, Mystic Gohan/SS3 Gotanks, SS2 Goku, SS2 Gotanks, SS2 Gohan, SS2 Vegeta, SS1 Goku, SS1 Gotanks, SS1 Gohan, SS1 Vegeta, Base Goku, Base Gohan, Base Gotanks, Base Vegeta. And this is a guess btw. There's a rumor floating around on the internet that Toriyama said Mystic Gohan (or "ultimate Gohan," or whatever you want) was the strongest unfused character in DBZ. I've looked far and wide for that quote, and it doesn't exist. However, I still think Mystic Gohan is the strongest Z-Fighter at the end of the Buu saga. My two main reasons are: 1. The manga page I posted earlier, where Goku is afraid to fight Super Buu without fusion, and 2. This page in the manga: Goku was afraid to fight Super Buu, but once Gotenks' fusion wore off, he said "Gohan himself could beat you now." So Goku wouldn't fight Super Buu alone, but he's willing to let Gohan do it. As far as I know there are a few reasons why people could think Goku was stronger: --in the Funimation dub scene of the very manga page I just posted, Goku says to Buucolo, "How do you expect to beat me like that?" which implies he could beat Buucolo and thus Super Buu. This is a Woolseyism that says the same basic thing on the surface ("you're in trouble now, Buu") but completely changes the meaning. --In Wrath of the Dragon, SS3 Goku takes several hits from 2nd form Hirudegarn and kills him, while Mystic Gohan was trashed. Either Goku had passed up Gohan by this point (unlikely), or the power levels in Wrath of the Dragon were baloney. (SS2 Vegeta and SS3 Gotenks both put up better fights than Mystic Gohan, and we know for sure than Gohan was stronger than both. Also, Videl survives a direct blast from 2nd form Hirudgarn, who was probably like a trillion times stronger than her, and that shouldn't be possible.) Or, third option, Goku understood Hirudegarn's weakness and still had enough fight left in him to take advantage of it. I've heard people say SS1 Gotenks = Goku SS3, but for the life of me I can't find any hard evidence to prove or disprove that. Hm true that makes sense I just wanted a bit of correction for my strongest chart and mystic/ultimate Gohan is a pain to put in there. Also for along time I always thought Gohan lost SS2 because I believed mystic was worthless and actually weakened him due the Kais barely able to comprehend the Saiyans' strength then one who hasn't been around for thousands of years shows up and says he can make him more powerful? I never believed elder Kai could actually do it but you guys are helping me see it more clearly. EDIT: you should know the movies and specials can really screw up power levels.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 9, 2016 5:46:00 GMT
Counter argument for the stupid shit you implied (Buu becomes weaker with every next absorbee). And please, grow a pair, or you won't last very long here. You'll need it because if your legs start shaking everytime you make an outrageous claim and someone goes out of their way to correct you, they will expect some actual quotations or scans, not just your worthless scribles and 'opinions'. Victim attitudes, haughty "higher-than-thou" complexes and overall non-sense are not tolerated here. Take this as a first warning. You are not in any position to ask "wishes". Anyone can reply to you whether you like it or not as this is a public forum. Your omniscient now? How do you know my legs are shaking? He literally pulled up a scan i was talking about so he is actually supporting my argument. It isn't an opinion it is fact 1 - Of course I am. 2 - Figure of speech. I also mentioned "If". Not totally stating it as an absolute truth. I started the sentence "IF everytime your legs start..." 3 - He actually contradicted pretty much everything you said, notably your reversed Buu list. 4 - Whatever comes out of your brainfarts isn't opinion nor fact but pure unadulterated BS.
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Post by The Masterman on Oct 9, 2016 6:09:53 GMT
Here it is, a place to go crazy with your power level lists and debate who's stronger than who. Modifiers, numbers, whatever you want! You get bonus points if you can use the manga to back up your argument. Common topics of discussion: 1. Arrange Buu's forms in order of power. While you're at it, is Super Buu stronger, or Kid Buu? (I say Super Buu.) 2. Is Dabura as strong as regular Perfect Cell, or Super Perfect Cell? Was Gohan SS1 or SS2 fighting him? (I say normal Perfect Cell, and SS1) 3. Is SS3 Goku stronger than Mystic Gohan? (I say Mystic Gohan's stronger.) 4. Which movie villain would beat who in a fight? 5. The Daizenshuu's power levels. The topic I want to start off with is the Daizenshuu's numbers for Super Saiyan transformations. It's not long, but I'll spoiler it anyway. The Daizenshuu guides were made after Dragon Ball finished, and are a bit like an encyclopedia for the series. Though not made by Akira Toriyama, they did have his approval. Therefore, many people take what they find in the Daizenshuu as Dragon Ball law. However, there are many places where I think what the Daizenshuu says and what we actually see happen doesn't match up. Case in point: the Super Saiyan modifiers.
According to the Daizenshuu, SS1 is a 50x multiplier over base. SS2 is double a Super Saiyan. SS3 is four times a SS2.
I really do not like these numbers. The only one that seems reasonable to me is Super Saiyan 1 being a 50x increase. Both SS2 and SS3 feel entirely wrong, and I'll tell you why.
DISCLAIMER: I don't like using numbers to determine power levels. It gets ridiculous. I instead prefer relative power levels--comparing somebody to somebody else.
To see how strong Super Saiyan 2 is, let's look at the Cell Saga: --Original SS Goku < Android 18 < Android 16 << Semi-Perfect Cell << Ascended Vegeta << Perfect Cell << Perfect Cell at max << SS2 Gohan. There's no way that's only a double increase in power from beginning to end.
Now let's look at Buu saga: --SS2 Teen Gohan < SS2 Goku/Vegeta << Kid Buu/SS3 Goku.
Gohan, as a SS2, could 1-shot a Cell Junior. Each Cell Jr. was as strong as Perfect Cell was when he fought Goku. So Goku at max ~ Perfect Cell = Cell Junior. And Gohan could 1-hit kill them. Goku, as a SS3, was about equal to Kid Buu. Kid Buu could beat the everliving crud out of SS2 Vegeta, but couldn't one-shot him. Despite Buu's efforts, Vegeta survived.
The point I'm trying to make here is that SS3 can't be a larger modifier than SS2, because the gap between original SS2 and SS3 is nowhere near as big as the gap between original SS1 and SS2. To me, the Law of Diminishing Returns hits SS3 very hard.
So: SS1 is a larger modifier than SS2, which is a larger modifier than SS3. SS3 can be a 4x modifier, but only if SS2 is a comparatively larger jump, like X10 or something.
I'd say Buuhan, Buutanks, Super Buu/Buu with piccolo, Fat Buu, Kid Buu, Evil Buu(the one that absorbed Fat Buu.) Forgot a form. Buuhan, Buutenks, Super Buu/Buucolo, Fat Buu, Kid Buu, (with South Kai absorbed) Kid Buu, Evil Buu
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Post by Android 13 on Oct 9, 2016 11:40:28 GMT
As my favourite would say:"Damn boy,shoot!". On point 3, you mean to tell me that Goku's experience would win against someone who can literally kill him with a single punch?That's like taking away all of Saitama's fighting experience in his fight with Boros and still say Boros will win.Yeah, sure, Goku has Instant Transmission and can take Gohan into space and just leave him there, but I doubt he would ever do that to any fighter who can't breathe in space.In an actual fight to the death, if Goku absolutely has to kill Gohan, I guess he would win due to Instant Transmission, but in a sparring/K.O. match Gohan would barely have to fight.If people persist that Gohan is weaker, I guess I will have to start pulling power scaling/manga pages to prove myself, just like Ashanark. Okay yeah technical stuff like fighting in space is gonna be annoying, so hold off on that for a sec. (Oh wait. Bra already did that. lol. but I've digressed.) That is indeed true. Goku could just spam I.T. and dodge (no joke intended.) every attack Gohan makes. In hindsight, maybe experience was a poor choice of words. But I'd be glad to see examples of the manga pages (and unlike some others) accept that I'm wrong (Side note, even though BoG shouldn't be included or the power levels are gonna be thrown out of whack, why was Gohan knocked down so easily by Beerus if his (Gohan's) strength was greater than that of SS3 Goku who fell to two hits from Beerus?) Damn guys, this thread just tripled over the night I slept.An advice from me, don't go putting words in Toriyama's mouth just because you want to prove yourself.Nothing besides a video will ever convince me that Toriyama has said anything at all, or the manga itself.That message is directed to all of us, but primarily towards The Perfect God, as he likes to call himself.On that side note:I've been wondering myself about that, maybe it was once again Toriyama trying to glorify Goku and Vegeta, after all, what is currently Super all about?Of course he is going to make Gohan look weaker than he was on Namek, if the fight had to go realistically, Gohan would have made Beerus use a lot more percentages of his full power than Vegeta did, and meanwhile Buu would have just hit Beerus with a Candy Beam, turning him either into a new, stronger version of the Strongest Candy there is(Vegito candy form), or flat-out turning him into a regular candy.Many other things should have been fixed/never happened throughout BoG, RoF and Super in general, now, onto power scaling using DB manga images: here's Goku stating Super Buu would win for sure against Goku and Vegeta i4.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/507/dragon-ball-1952611.jpghere is Goku actually stating he couldn't beat Buu: i4.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/477/dragon-ball-71962.jpgBut even if he could have beaten Buu, his statement stays about Super Buu, and seeing how Gotenks and Gohan's fights went out against Super Buu, I think it's far more than obvious that Gohan is leagues above Goku.
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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 9, 2016 12:30:42 GMT
Okay yeah technical stuff like fighting in space is gonna be annoying, so hold off on that for a sec. (Oh wait. Bra already did that. lol. but I've digressed.) That is indeed true. Goku could just spam I.T. and dodge (no joke intended.) every attack Gohan makes. In hindsight, maybe experience was a poor choice of words. But I'd be glad to see examples of the manga pages (and unlike some others) accept that I'm wrong (Side note, even though BoG shouldn't be included or the power levels are gonna be thrown out of whack, why was Gohan knocked down so easily by Beerus if his (Gohan's) strength was greater than that of SS3 Goku who fell to two hits from Beerus?) Damn guys, this thread just tripled over the night I slept.An advice from me, don't go putting words in Toriyama's mouth just because you want to prove yourself.Nothing besides a video will ever convince me that Toriyama has said anything at all, or the manga itself.That message is directed to all of us, but primarily towards The Perfect God, as he likes to call himself.On that side note:I've been wondering myself about that, maybe it was once again Toriyama trying to glorify Goku and Vegeta, after all, what is currently Super all about?Of course he is going to make Gohan look weaker than he was on Namek, if the fight had to go realistically, Gohan would have made Beerus use a lot more percentages of his full power than Vegeta did, and meanwhile Buu would have just hit Beerus with a Candy Beam, turning him either into a new, stronger version of the Strongest Candy there is(Vegito candy form), or flat-out turning him into a regular candy.Many other things should have been fixed/never happened throughout BoG, RoF and Super in general, now, onto power scaling using DB manga images: here's Goku stating Super Buu would win for sure against Goku and Vegeta i4.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/507/dragon-ball-1952611.jpghere is Goku actually stating he couldn't beat Buu: i4.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/477/dragon-ball-71962.jpgBut even if he could have beaten Buu, his statement stays about Super Buu, and seeing how Gotenks and Gohan's fights went out against Super Buu, I think it's far more than obvious that Gohan is leagues above Goku. Are there videos of Toriyama?? He said Goku was the coolest and strongest.
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Post by The Perfect God on Oct 9, 2016 12:36:34 GMT
It is over. No proof degrades what Toriyama has said. It has been fun but im getting bored. I feel like Frieza prolonging this knowing i could of posted that link from the moment i replied to this thread. We really don't need more comments that stir up arguments and then just randomly disappear only to not partake in it ever again. If you would be so kind to provide evidence the next time you log into the forum so that we may all settle this debate, The thing is.. i went to sleep for 8 hours like a normal human should. I provided the link of the interview. Toriyama has said it no matter how you look at it. You have to see the manga as he wrote it.
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Post by The Masterman on Oct 9, 2016 13:10:10 GMT
We really don't need more comments that stir up arguments and then just randomly disappear only to not partake in it ever again. If you would be so kind to provide evidence the next time you log into the forum so that we may all settle this debate, The thing is.. i went to sleep for 8 hours like a normal human should. I provided the link of the interview. Toriyama has said it no matter how you look at it. You have to see the manga as he wrote it. We asked you to provide proof of Kid Buu being stronger and you linked Toriyama saying Goku is the coolest... It doesn't prove anything other than you don't even understand the argument like Toriyama barely understands his own work.
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