??????
|
Post by عمار on Oct 22, 2023 18:46:13 GMT
I was going to wait until the fight is over, but screw it! xD So, yeah, following on Axalon footsteps, I'm going to do a comparison between DBM and DBZ based on the release schedule of DBM. But! This time, I'm going to compare the two fights of Goku vs. Vegeta that happened in the manga with the DBM's one. Since a lot of people complain how the current fight is dragging down, I want to see if the two fights in manga will be dragging too or not. Two things you should know:
1- Since I'm comparing the fights, I will be skipping the two specials.
2- I will be skipping pages in the manga that has nothing to do with the fight. that's fair to me since I will skip the specials (but I will let you know when I do, so you don't get confused).Okay, enough babbling, let's dive right into it!
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Oct 25, 2023 18:08:21 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by Salagir on Oct 26, 2023 6:19:35 GMT
Ah ah ! This is going to be painful I'll remind you all, that myself I never follow any webcomic day to day. I come back after some time to read several pages in one go. And for people like me, i made a feature remembering where you are in your reading : www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/chapters.html?comic=pageAlso as the writer I'm very aware of the slow release. That's why at first, DBM pages were very packed with many panels and actions were very short. Many "ambiance panels" were missing. Since a few years I try to have bigger panels and "give more time" for each action. Cartoonists usually don't have my problem and when they do their own page layout, the number of pages with only one panel grows much ^_^ (and then I negotiate with the cartoonist to change a little the layout so that things actually happen. On this particular chapter, Asura did these pages and I didn't ask him to make it faster, because it's goddamn goku-vegeta and that's worth big pictures IMO) When I do the page layout, I work strongly on giving at least one "thing" per page: a new information said or shown, a fight situation reversed, or a cool action. When i was writing Super Dragon Bros Z, i was always trying to have at least 2 "jokes" per page (that's not in the first pages, it's after). Also, all my childhood was spent reading French-Belgian comics books. Not american comic books, not mangas. Pages in there are way bigger. In these comics, most authors are still following an old rule : the suspense at the end of the page. When they were released in magazines one or two pages at the time, the goal was that the end of a page would always make the reader want for more and buy the next issue. Like at the end of a TV episode or a manga chapter. (90% of the time, this should not apply in European comic book because almost nothing is in magazines now, all is published in hardcover directly. But this is hardcoded in the french industry. All my teachers or comic enthusiasts have been telling me about this rule. All of them) (in a manga, giving a suspense at the end of a 3-5 panels page each time would make no sense. The next page is right after.) So even if I don't do it on every page, I always try to work my layout in a way that a a joke or a part of an action isn't cut between two pages or isn't broken by the fact the sequel will be read in 3 days. As a conclusion, DBM is fast-paced AND slow-paced. If you compare it to most Jump mangas, you'll find DBM is going much, much faster. If you read it one page every 2-3 days... Well yes, it's going to be sloooooooow paced. (this goku-vegeta fight may be more slow that usual in DBM. It's goku-vegeta, damnit! We take our time)
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Oct 26, 2023 7:00:23 GMT
Also as the writer I'm very aware of the slow release. That's why at first, DBM pages were very packed with many panels and actions were very short. Many "ambiance panels" were missing. Since a few years I try to have bigger panels and "give more time" for each action. Cartoonists usually don't have my problem and when they do their own page layout, the number of pages with only one panel grows much ^_^ (and then I negotiate with the cartoonist to change a little the layout so that things actually happen. On this particular chapter, Asura did these pages and I didn't ask him to make it faster, because it's goddamn goku-vegeta and that's worth big pictures IMO) When I do the page layout, I work strongly on giving at least one "thing" per page: a new information said or shown, a fight situation reversed, or a cool action. When i was writing Super Dragon Bros Z, i was always trying to have at least 2 "jokes" per page (that's not in the first pages, it's after). Also, all my childhood was spent reading French-Belgian comics books. Not american comic books, not mangas. Pages in there are way bigger. In these comics, most authors are still following an old rule : the suspense at the end of the page. When they were released in magazines one or two pages at the time, the goal was that the end of a page would always make the reader want for more and buy the next issue. Like at the end of a TV episode or a manga chapter. (90% of the time, this should not apply in European comic book because almost nothing is in magazines now, all is published in hardcover directly. But this is hardcoded in the french industry. All my teachers or comic enthusiasts have been telling me about this rule. All of them) (in a manga, giving a suspense at the end of a 3-5 panels page each time would make no sense. The next page is right after.) So even if I don't do it on every page, I always try to work my layout in a way that a a joke or a part of an action isn't cut between two pages or isn't broken by the fact the sequel will be read in 3 days. As a conclusion, DBM is fast-paced AND slow-paced. If you compare it to most Jump mangas, you'll find DBM is going much, much faster. If you read it one page every 2-3 days... Well yes, it's going to be sloooooooow paced. (this goku-vegeta fight may be more slow that usual in DBM. It's goku-vegeta, damnit! We take our time) Ah! I was surprised to see you comment here that I had to double check to make sure that I'm not seeing things! xD Anyway, I completely understand where you're coming from (which is why I made this thread) but I do have one question though. I know the reason why you're doing 3 pages a week is to make the website active and to give other cartoonists time to draw, and the reason you tell the cartoonists to make things goes faster or to make at least one "thing" happen in a page is for not to make the readers bored. But my question is in what way DBM is supposed to be read? Page by page or a full chapter at once?
|
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Oct 26, 2023 16:54:10 GMT
ok. I'm liking this idea. Ammar, you have my blessing on this premise.
And I appreciate salagir and his input here as well.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Oct 27, 2023 0:01:12 GMT
I still hold the position that this fight itself isn't dragging, but the release schedule just makes the fight seem like it is dragging. If you take pages from the actual manga and only release them one page a day of course the chapter will feel slow. I have been saying this for years now, we are going to have to choose between fast chapters that give us a lot on DBM schedule but feel rushed we reread them when the chapters are done, or gradual progress that feels slow on DBM schedule while feeling action packed and good length when it is reread.
Two chapters fight are not long by a manga standard. I think this chapter flows better when it is reread as a whole. I've reread the pages we had a week ago and the flow felt fine to me. I think this is the optimal way to show a proper rematch between Vegeta and Goku. If this fight had been given the same treatment as the quarter finals matches, I guarantee a lot of people would have been up in arms at another rushed fight.
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Oct 27, 2023 18:18:23 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by Son Pan on Oct 28, 2023 3:04:15 GMT
On the Supreme Kai World
Gohan: Dad, why didn't you use SS3 against Vegeta? You could have beat him instantly than helped us stop Dabura and Babidi.
Goku: Toriyama hadn't thought of the form yet.
Gohan: What?
Goku: I mean, I didn't want to hurt Vegeta's pride.
Gohan: Are you serious?!
Goku: Well....Yeah, plus I generate a lot of energy when I transform into level 3. Who knows? All that energy could have gone straight to Buu.
Gohan: That is a better excuse.
Toriyama: Why didn't I think of that and had Goku say it in the manga?
DB Fans: Yeah, why didn't you!?
If people are upset or disappointed with DBM Goku and Vegeta match they would have hated the manga version of Goku and Vegeta rematch in the Buu arc. Toei added way more to that fight and made it more memorable than it was in the manga. It was just punches and kicks, the same thing people are complaining about this fight, and neither party uses major ki techniques in them manga if memory serves.
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Oct 28, 2023 14:09:22 GMT
On the Supreme Kai World Gohan: Dad, why didn't you use SS3 against Vegeta? You could have beat him instantly than helped us stop Dabura and Babidi. Goku: Toriyama hadn't thought of the form yet. Gohan: What? Goku: I mean, I didn't want to hurt Vegeta's pride. Gohan: Are you serious?! Goku: Well....Yeah, plus I generate a lot of energy when I transform into level 3. Who knows? All that energy could have gone straight to Buu. Gohan: That is a better excuse. Toriyama: Why didn't I think of that and had Goku say it in the manga? DB Fans: Yeah, why didn't you!? Lol! That's just shows that Toriyama was just having fun making this arc. He wasn't taking the story seriously anymore. He back to how Dragon ball used to be. If people are upset or disappointed with DBM Goku and Vegeta match they would have hated the manga version of Goku and Vegeta rematch in the Buu arc. Toei added way more to that fight and made it more memorable than it was in the manga. It was just punches and kicks, the same thing people are complaining about this fight, and neither party uses major ki techniques in them manga if memory serves. Most of them remember the fight from the anime. I doubt they ever read the manga. Which is why they're comparing the anime fights to this. Plus, the release schedule play a role as we will (slowly) find out how boring or exciting these two fight will go.
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Oct 29, 2023 19:12:22 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 1, 2023 19:08:03 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 3, 2023 19:01:21 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 5, 2023 19:08:43 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 8, 2023 19:52:32 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Nov 10, 2023 5:28:57 GMT
good all around.
I missed a few posts. keep it up
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 10, 2023 19:10:54 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 12, 2023 19:16:38 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by supergojita3 on Nov 13, 2023 22:58:06 GMT
so...vegeta gets the first hit, and goku "spoiler" gets the last!
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 15, 2023 19:11:59 GMT
|
|
??????
|
Post by عمار on Nov 17, 2023 19:34:49 GMT
|
|