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Post by Son Pan on Mar 22, 2018 5:28:05 GMT
I personally preferred the anime episode that at least gave Krillin time to shine and eliminate 2 opponents before Frost took him out. I really liked 18 and Krillin team up. They are the only real couple in Dragon Ball that can function as a battle couple anymore, especially since Chi-chi and Videl stopped training. I know you guys all loved the Roshi episodes, but I always felt bringing Roshi back in the fold and giving him more prominence than Krillin, Tien, and Yamecha never made sense. Roshi already had a very important role earlier in the story and had a satisfying end in my opinion when he passed the torch to the next generation at the 22nd Tournament. If the Tournament of Power's goal was to have an old master be the skilled and technique guy to handle the other fighters with odd powers that might give more brute force warriors like the Saiyans trouble it just makes more sense to have Krillin, Tien, and Yamecha who are all martial arts masters in their own right and have surpassed Roshi in terms of technique and power I feel. This tournament would have been a great way to remind us that just because they aren't Saiyans or Nameks doesn't mean they aren't great martial artists the same way we're reminded Hercule/Satan is.
Those three actually using teamwork to overcome enemies might have been cool to see. While I'm not surprised Toyotaro didn't give Krillin and Tien highlight chapters it is extremely disappointing he did nothing with them and kept Roshi. I would have rather Roshi get taken out and Krillin and Tien taking down his opponent together to showcase how awesome they were. As it is I don't see why Toyotaro even bothered to add them and not just bring Goten and Trunks in it. Them getting eliminated for screwing around would have accomplished the same thing. If anything it worse in the manga, since it seems to be following power level scaling more seriously, so Goku not recruiting Cell and Dabura along with Freeza is even worse. Plus I'm not a fan of how Toyotaro just plays into fan's perceptions of Yamecha and Krillin. He has other characters make cheap jokes at Yamecha's expense and has Krillin way more cowardly and forgetting despite his fear that Krillin has more times than not participated in battles. Wasn't a fan of Krillin wimping out joke during the gathering for the tournament.
On the upside the battle royale actually feels like a battle royale and Jiren is actually doing something instead standing around for the majority of the tournament. Goku saving Roshi from Frost was a nice touch, given how Toyotaro's take on Goku has him even less sentimental than Toei's version, who at least gets great heartwarming moments from time to time. I can't imagine Toyotaro's Goku ever spending time with Chi-chi, Goten, and Pan while he is resting. It is a miracle Goku even cared about Roshi at all. Lord knows we weren't going to get any Goku and Krillin bonding moments. I like Vegeta as much as the next guy, but there are other characters Toyotaro and it would be nice to see you acknowledge them. For all the shit Toei gets at least their writers are great at the slice of life moments. When you take that away from Super and just focus on the fights and action it just makes it more noticeable when those things are lacking, as we saw in the Goku Black arc when Toyotaro screwed up his own power scale. I really hope Toyotaro can give us good and great fights here or else this arc is going to really fall flat on its ass.
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Mar 22, 2018 7:21:18 GMT
Mangastream is still on Chapter 31. They are pretty slow with DBS compared to other weekly/monthly mangas they cover.
Also, i found it odd for Frost to ask Frieza whether Goku is troublesome or not. Did he watch Goku in their previous tourney? Or was he knocked out?
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 22, 2018 16:46:17 GMT
I just checked back with the manga. Vegeta knocked Frost unconscious and they carried him away on a stretcher. They don’t show him again for the rest of the tournament it seems, so he probably did miss the remaining matches. It can line up with Frost being unaware of how strong Goku was is. It is hard to believe he wouldn’t have at least heard of how Goku gave Hit a hard time afterward. Frost is such nothing character now that I doubt either anime team or Toyotaro gave him much thought once Freeza came back into the story and Frost’s role as Freeza replacement was rendered void. I really wish they had kept Frost as Freeza’s good counterpart. That would have made Frost one of the better characters introduced. It would have made for a good potential showdown with Freeza in the Tournament of Power rather than a team up between them, especially since Frost being a rival of Freeza’s at the tournament would of have been incentive to give him a similar crazy up that Freeza got in between arcs and gave U6 another ace. Freeza actually having more challenging matches rather than just standing around, trolling, or planning which did get old at times from the episodes I watched.
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Post by sonleon on Apr 5, 2018 20:00:49 GMT
Dragon Ball Super Manga Chapter 2Obviously Super's chapter 2 has been out for a long time but i never got around to reading the Manga and honestly im to lazy. i didn't even know this guy was around but it seems like a good idea for the fans that like to sit back and watch. what do you guys think?
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 5, 2018 20:33:58 GMT
sonleonWe already have a thread on this (it's like 20 pages long). This will be merged. This is also in a wrong sub-forum. Please use the classification systems and sub-boards properly. It is better when following specific topics, materials or posts too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2018 13:49:09 GMT
The manga definitely feels more like a fast paced free-for-all happening over the course of a few minutes. It also feels more of a fight for survival with the stronger characters eliminating almost everyone they come into contact with rather than holding back so much that fighters like Ribranne and the U3 mask guy last so long. These characters unfortunately didn't get much development if at all in the anime so I rather they cut to the chance and eliminate them so that more screentime could be dedicated to the heavy hitters.
I would've liked for Tien and Krillin to get an elimination or two but at the same time I like that the fodder of U7 don't have as much plot armor as in the anime. I guess it's more fair that all the fodder characters are equally likely to be fodderized. I still got my fingers crossed that my boys Toppo and Dyspo get at least one elimination in the manga.
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Post by Axalon on Apr 21, 2018 16:03:30 GMT
New chapter is out.Holy shit. So this chapter is literally just five characters (not counting audience commentary). Dyspo, Toppo, Goku, Hit, and Jiren. All I can say is... WTF Goku. It's like the anime and manga are having a contest in who can do the characters dirtier. First Hit gets his ass kicked...OFF PANEL! So that glorious fight where Hit takes on Jiren and actually comes closer to knocking Jiren out of the ring than UI Goku not through power, but through skill? Doesn't happen. I mean, Manga Hit has always been more disappointing than Anime Hit but COME ON, I expected more than THIS! But that's not all. Now Goku's flanderization has literally come full circle. Jiren has already defeated Hit--but not knocked him out yet. Goku doesn't rush in to save Hit or anything, he just wants to fight Jiren before he runs out of juice, so he powers up to MSSB and immediately leaves Toppo/Dyspo behind to go fight him instead. This treatment only applies to Goku though. You see, Hit is absolutely all for working together as a team to beat Jiren and indeed the two of them do fight Jiren together for a little bit, Hit even rushing in to save Goku at one point with a solid kick to Jiren...until Hit says he has one more technique in store and that once it happens the two of them must go ALL OUT once it hits Jiren. Goku? Well... Just straight up powers down and is all like "Nah bro. Trying to get a new powerup. You go fight Jiren alone." WOW. Just wow. I'd really been hoping that with the accelerated pace of the manga we'd see less "Stupid Goku" moments in the ToP but I think this one has singlehandedly made itself the dumbest moment so far in either the anime or the manga, rivaled only perhaps by Goku's constant refilling stamina in the anime Goku getting UI by fighting an imploding Spirit Bomb. What's worse is that the anime's done! It no longer has a chance to out-stupid this moment! It shouldn't be a contest to make the dumbest Goku portrayal Toei/Toyotaro!
WTF has happened to Goku in Super? Is this really the same character who teamed up with Piccolo to save his biological son (since Piccolo is Best Dad) but is refusing to work as a team now? This is literally the opposite of when Piccolo said he had to charge HIS ultimate technique and they had to work together against Raditz! Is this the same character who decided to pass the mantle over to Gohan against Cell? Then again this does match up a bit with Buu Saga Goku who was playing rock-paper-scissors against Vegeta immediately after his family had been murdered by Kid Buu just to see who would get to fight Buu first so I suppose the Buu Saga's flanderization is now reaching the end point. Somehow it just all seems to stem from freaking Buu. Stupid Goku aside, Hit was...okay. Not as good as Anime Hit but then again he never has been. His ultimate technique overall is worse than his anime counterpart, and unlike the anime fight required no real strategy from Hit as he adapted to Jiren's fighting style and instead just...happened with Jiren naturally going "Nah bro" and overpowering it.
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Post by Ashanark on Apr 21, 2018 16:52:42 GMT
The manga really is a mixed bag. It has none of the anime's bad parts...but also none of the anime's good parts, either. Its main win is generally better characterization. Generally. Toppo and Jiren are better here. I especially like manga Toppo--so far, he's like the Future Trunks of his universe, pragmatic and not-bizarre. Jiren is also comparatively messing around a lot less than he did in the anime, and he talks more.
However...
Hit: Lol, screw techniques, raw power's where it's at and thus the only interesting character in Super sold out
As well as...
Hit: We have a chance to beat him together using my new technique Goku: You can count me out, then. I want to beat Jiren alone.
WHERE THE @*$% DID PEOPLE GET THIS IDEA THAT GOKU IS A MORON?
It's my longstanding theory TFS is primarily responsible for causing the DB reboot era. (Okay, maybe Kai played a role, too.) It generated new interest in a 15-year old series by being a fun, creative, and well-done show. But--and feel free to call me a crazy conspiracy theorist--in hindsight it may have caused more harm than good. Originally my complaint with TFS was only "Now all DB videos from now to infinity are crammed with endlessly repeated TFS quotes," but now my complaint is TFS has extended to ascended fanon. TFS's interpretation of characters is funny; we laugh, we joke, we run with the idea, but at the end of the day, I could've sworn most people remembered that TFS was a parody. Nevertheless, it's percolated enough through the fanbase that TFS's interpretations are how writers actually perceive the characters now. We know Toriyama is heavily influenced by whatever he's watching at the time (Future Trunks came out around the time Terminator 2 did, Beerus is based off a cat he saw a little bit before), we can freaking prove somebody at Toei is aware of TFS's Popo, at the very least, and doesn't it make more sense that Goku's actions in Super were made with the TFS version in mind?
Believe it or not, Goku was not actually a terrible father in DBZ. He was an awesome dad. He was also not an idiot: he had plenty of moments of shrewdness and planning that extended beyond mere in-the-moment battle decisions. His main moments of stupidity had some good justifications: he let Frieza power up to maximum so that, by beating him at his best, Frieza would not come back for revenge, which he might try to do if he wasn't at his maximum. Goku was wrong here, but at least he thought it through, and he was correct that he'd still be able to defeat Frieza even at full power. Yes, he gave Cell a senzu bean, but he knew Gohan would be more than enough for Cell--and he was right. Yes, he crushed the Potara against Kid Buu, but he was willing to fuse against Super Buu and, later, make a Spirit Bomb to save the day. Despite what Toriyama says, Goku actually did have his heroic moments in Dragon Ball, letting King Piccolo shoot out his knees so as to not harm Tien, sacrificing himself against Raditz, and sparing the Ginyus and Frieza. Yet there's enough material there that TFS's portrayal is not only funny, but makes sense in a way.
In other words, the fandom may have ruined itself.
So here is my theory: Toriyama flat-out forgot the original Dragon Ball manga. Like someone who "remembers" something that happened when they were 2 but is really creating a false memory gathered from things other people told them, Toriyama heard jokes about Goku's character from his editors, coworkers, and fans and came to believe those jokes are who Goku always was, and now writes the character that way. Toei portrays Goku the way they did because it is easy. Just as 80s Toriyama had Goku be "pure" so that he would not have to write a character who went through actual character development--like struggles, moral decisions and self-doubt--Toei writes a Goku who is a fighting-hungry moron because it is easier. Toyotaro portrays Goku as he is partly out of respect for Toriyama, partly out of a desire to appease the fanbase (who likes idiot Goku jokes), and partly because he's a major Vegeta fan who likes making Goku look bad.
I don't think I've ever seen character assassination on this level in a franchise before. Superman has been given his edgy moments but it was always a sort of "What-If" scenario and not a "this is who Superman is." It's simultaneously frustrating and utterly fascinating to watch.
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Post by Axalon on Apr 21, 2018 17:08:56 GMT
The manga really is a mixed bag. It has none of the anime's bad parts...but also none of the anime's good parts, either. Its main win is generally better characterization. Generally. Toppo and Jiren are better here. I especially like manga Toppo--so far, he's like the Future Trunks of his universe, pragmatic and not-bizarre. Jiren is also comparatively messing around a lot less than he did in the anime, and he talks more. However... Hit: Lol, screw techniques, raw power's where it's at and thus the only interesting character in Super sold outI think this is also part of what really irked me about this chapter as well, though Toyotaro honestly did a good(?) job distracting my attention away from it a tiny bit with Goku's idiocy, and also just really contributes overall to how disappointed I am in Manga Hit. I've raved about this fight before, but Anime Hit vs Jiren was quite possibly one of the best, if not THE best fight in the entire ToP. Everything about that fight could be encapsulated as pure power vs technique, and though this is DB and power naturally won, the technique and skill side of things was damn entertaining to watch. Here Hit was like, "Yeah my techniques just don't work in the face of power. Ima just generically powerup and leave it at that for the most part." Aside from his new Time Lag that was all he did, just generic kicks and punches. Such a waste compared to Anime Hit's sheer calculation and precision. Yeah. DC has the advantage of just making some alternate universe where "Today Superman was raised in glorious Soviet Russia!" (Red Son) or "Today Superman just snapped because of the Joker and is now a brutal dictator!" (Injustice) while not mixing it up with the ACTUAL Superman who is still just fine and dandy. ...UNLESS they plan on doing what Xenoverse did with GT and say that Super is also just some parallel timeline...which might also explain the anime and manga's differences between each other as being parallel timelines of each other as well... EDIT: You coulda fooled me. IMO Vegeta's been treated worse in the manga than in the anime while Goku has been given even greater heights comparatively.
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Apr 21, 2018 18:22:48 GMT
Anybody know when Toriyama's gonna drop the work and let Toyotaro handle it by himself?
Right now, i feel Toriyama's exit might save DB. Well, he can still contribute to some characters but STAY AWAY FROM THE PLOT.
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Post by Kirasha on Apr 21, 2018 19:25:06 GMT
Anybody know when Toriyama's gonna drop the work and let Toyotaro handle it by himself? Right now, i feel Toriyama's exit might save DB. Well, he can still contribute to some characters but STAY AWAY FROM THE PLOT. I don't think Toriyama leaving will change things, you realize this is mostly Toyotaro writing this all right? Sure Toriyama has some leeway about what happens, but this is mostly Toyotaro's doing right now. As for Chapter 35, all I can say is, that it is mediocre. I dislike how Hit was kicked out within, essentially, the first 10 minutes of the Tournament and hasn't done anything other than fight Jiren off and on panel and completely failing to do anything significant. Goku going all "Nah fam, you do you, I'll solo him later" is also jarring honestly, I know he's hinting at Ultra Instinct already but man....I dunno, this just feels wrong.
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Post by Azoth on Apr 21, 2018 19:31:39 GMT
Yeah, I'm not a fan of how the manga is handling this. Say what you want about Toei, but I think the anime did the pacing right for the TOP, at least.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 21, 2018 21:08:57 GMT
If I were to sum up the current manga ToP so far... I'd say uneventful, arbitrary are the best words to define it.
Most people who commented have already nailed it, but although it seems it will thoroughly lack unnecessary fillers, it also seems to lack all the memorable things and highlights. One would think this should have improved on things that were already good or ok (but far from perfect) but in turn this is just erasing and speeding things left and right.
Damn man, fucking Botamo and Magetta have outdone Hit already. Hit in the anime at least crapped Narirama, teamed up with Basil impromptu, almost managed to make Dyspo crap his pants and managed to knock Kunshi off. Here... nada. Total job.
Seems like the Manga being better than the Anime only applies in general level to Zamasu saga (and this is likely because this saga was the only one to be truly DBZ like, and the fact Toyotaro wrote the fanfics this saga was inspired off). I remember Toyotaro's U6 saga was mediocre too.
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Post by Axalon on Apr 22, 2018 0:56:36 GMT
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 22, 2018 3:23:09 GMT
Axalon To be fair, although you're right about the good strategy Hit showed (along with his more impressive Anime moves), this was thrown to shit when he himself said to Cabba and Co "Nah, I am fine, just go and get eliminated by someone else". Quite ironic this was reversed here. Honestly, I got lots of Tien vs. Yamcha vibes (I mean the first time they fought in DB) reading this. I was wondering if only the fodder elimination (such as Tien, Krilin, Rota) would be sped up, but it seems everything is being cut short. Will the last chapters (that are the ones that really matter anyway) truly make up for this? It is doubtful now. But I guess we're gonna see it soon. In 3 chapters of the ToP (I think?) almost 1/3rd or above of the fighters are already gone. With Hit eliminated, there are no more fighters on that level on other universes. Kale will probably be full of fan service, but I honestly do not expect much good to come from her or Kaulifla either. I am not even sure if we're getting Kefla here. Shit, with Hit gone so quickly I am almost rooting for her to appear. There is also Aniraza, but honestly he looked so ridiculous I'm mostly dismissing him as TOEI bullshit.
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Post by Axalon on Apr 22, 2018 3:36:33 GMT
Axalon To be fair, although you're right about the good strategy Hit showed (along with his more impressive Anime moves), this was thrown to shit when he himself said to Cabba and Co "Nah, I am fine, just go and get eliminated by someone else". Quite ironic this was reversed here. Very true, as I thought Cabba and the others actually listening to him and not just blowing up the floor under Jiren in the anime while he was frozen was also stupid and the worst part of that whole ordeal. I'm honestly not sure if we'll get Kefla or not. The anime devoted FOUR episodes straight to Goku's battle with Caulifla/Kale/Kefla though so I'd imagine we'll see something along those lines from them. Then again the anime also devoted a lot of time to Ribrianne which the manga has thankfully averted, so who knows at this point--but given that Ribrianne was a filler character whose biggest rival was #18 compared to the other fighters being much more Goku-centric in their focus lends me to believe we'll be seeing them fight Goku at some point.
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Post by Son Pan on Apr 22, 2018 8:56:39 GMT
Damn, I haven't even read the chapter yet, but now I'm not in a hurry to either. It sounds like it is disappointing. I hate to say it, but I'm not sure I'm that surprised.
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Post by Xeno Black on Apr 23, 2018 4:52:41 GMT
Despite all of our differences, I find it comforting that we all come together when the likes of Goku or Hit are mishandled. I agree with both Axalon and Ashanark since one has become less efficient while the other basically has his character assassinated...again. Main reasons I alone still dislike Super overall, but also nothing new neither. The ToP should be better than the anime, not worse. You would think Toyotaro would at least make the Hit Vs Jiren as epic as possible since it like literally the only major fight that isn't saiyan based. But instead he is too focused on making Goku a even bigger dumbass than before. I miss the old dbz days....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 8:43:41 GMT
Man I was hoping for another fast paced chapter full of fodder eliminations. Why Toyotaro?
-Goku keeps up with Toppo and Dyspo in SSJ2. I get they're both also holding back but why not go all out to eliminate Goku, one of the strongest in the tournament, and then go back to suppressing their power? Unfortunately it looks like both Toppo and Dyspo are destined to either stand around or hold back to the point where they don't eliminate anyone until the end :/. It's a shame because they're some of the few memorable characters in the entire tournament.
-Goku's line about not wanting to help Hit was pretty stupid. Perhaps Jiren should've threatened to kidnap Gohan so Goku is forced to team-up against him. This wasn't in the anime which unfortunately means that Toyotaro decided to include this line for whatever reason. I would've preferred if Jiren had knocked Goku to the other side of the arena and so he got preoccupied in another battle and couldn't help Hit in time.
-We lose Hit before Ribranne and the majority of the other characters I can't remember their names! Hit vs Jiren was also underwhelming. The only positive was that the power scaling was a little more conservative in the manga. In the manga, he went from around SSG tier at full power but could only maintain it for a minute or so to around SSJB tier tier. In the anime, he survived an attack from SSJB Kaioken x10, loses to regular SSJB in their filler rematch, and then outperforms Kaioken x20 in the tournament. He relied on his abilities but he had to have huge raw power or else he isn't going to be doing much damage to Jiren. In the manga, Jiren doesn't have to be over 20× stronger than SSJB. I thought Kaioken x20 was a huge jump during the Freeza saga and that was only at planet level so it becomes even more ridiculous and unnecessary when the characters are capable of destroying the universe.
Now that Hit has been eliminated, I don't think there's a lot left to look forward to in the tournament to be honest. I thought most of the new characters were pretty forgettable aside from the Trio De Danger and the main three Pride Troopers. The only others I had hope for were the Nameks but after seeing Dyspo and Toppo this chapter, I'm worried the Nameks also won't do anything noteworthy until their final battle before being eliminated.
Edit: I think the major appeal of the anime ToP that can't apply to the manga is that there was still mystery surrounding the new characters. Now we know who is going to be fodderized and who isn't going to be doing much until the end. The anime tried to occasionally have a villain/monster of the week format by having the Z fighters hold back so the contestant takes up the entire episode but that would take too long for the manga since its only released once a week. Overall, I don't think there's a lot of replay value this saga but I felt that way able most of DBS. There are a few memorable scenes and battles that I would watch again but not enough to watch the saga in its entirety.
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Post by Beerus the Wondercat on Apr 25, 2018 14:37:33 GMT
It's been a while everyone. Hope you're doing well. So Let's get started: -The manga arc for the tournament of power has been rather mediocre for me personally. I didn’t find the anime version that particularly good if I’m being honest. Only a handful of episodes I personally enjoyed over a sea of badly-explained poorly-paced time-consuming brain-damaging shite that plagued my enjoyment of the series for well over 60+ episodes. -Maybe my problem’s less with the manga but more with the premise, but I cannot stress how little I care about majority of these universes. I mean, I didn’t think much of them in the anime, but in the manga it’s WAY worse. We’ve only got introduced to 90% of the roster at the beginning of the tournament and I don’t care about any of them. Why should we? We have no clue about them as individuals, their mortal levels or anything remotely interesting. They made the wolf trio seem like complete throw-away characters despite the anime telling us they were a big deal. -I suppose it comes down to mere preference. In the anime, it felt a majority of the roster were pure fodder who only served to pad out episodes with gimmicky abilities that promoted the false-pretense that teamwork and techniques would defeat raw power!...Before being strong-armed over the arena. It felt like a large portion of fighters had over-stayed their welcome and made sitting though episodes a chore. For every Jiren vs Hit, we had a sniper episode. For every Ultra-Instinct, we had small-bug men. -For the manga, it seems to be racing ahead of the anime’s pacing, which might not be inherently bad if executed well. The whole appeal of a battle royal is the sheer chaos and bedlam that would arise from such an event. But we’re already one chapter in, and we’ve already lost a universe and I didn’t care. The manga has done a good job at giving Universe 11 more positive qualities. It gave more characterization for Jiren in the span of a few chapters that took the anime 50+ more to tell us. But I’m not sure that matters if the premise is so inherently flawed that we don’t care about the other 90% of characters participating. I probably enjoy the manga a tad more due to getting rid of fodder rather than it taking up the pacing. I just wish we could get a compromise of having cool, fun or even interesting characters that DON’T take away from the pacing. The two aspects that are particularly robbing my enjoyment of the manga’s latest chapter are the portrayal of Goku’s character and Hit’s character in the manga in general:1) Goku's character
It would seem despite Toytaro avoiding most of the anime’s pitfalls of turning Goku into the meme-worthy psychopathic moron that he’s become in toei’s rendition, Super’s outline insists on having Goku outright refuse any outside aid/or help in dealing with problems. He outright refuses to tag-team Jiren with Hit deeming it unfair and wanting to defeat Jiren using his own power. I’m going to tackle why I think Goku’s writing as a character is fundamentally flawed in general throughout all Dragon Ball media. -I know people have used the excuses of “The dub made Goku too heroic!” –which itself is debatable. Yes, the old Z dub changed the script quite often and added in lines, but a large majority of that was corrected in the Kai dub. In the Kai dub (which follows the subs to a T) he’s NEVER been this level of naivety or had bouts of stupidity. Even Toriyama thinks the Sub made Goku too heroic or changed aspects of his character. While I agree with him on certain instances (such as Goku looking regretful in the manga after defeating Frieza, while in the anime he just looks stoic) I cannot help but feel that Toriyama himself has written Goku incredibly inconsistently throughout all of Z to Super. -His refusal to team-up with Hit or Vegeta to deal with Jiren or Golden Frieza (ROF) is stated to the fact he wants to beat people with his own power or to fight strong opponents. Yet, at the beginning of Z when battling Raditz and he reveals that there are two Saiyans even stronger than him, Goku’s first reaction is being worried to which Piccolo asks him that the prospect of fighting these two warriors would be exciting, to which Goku disagrees and only wishes to save his son. In that same battle, he would sacrifice his own life just to stop Raditz and save his son. He was even willing to exploit the tail weakness in Raditz rather than fighting him-straight up. I have no-doubt Super’s Goku would probably not grab Raditz’s tail deeming it “unfair” but Z’s Goku actively tried everything he could to defeat the Saiyans. -At the end of the sage even asking Krillin to spare Vgeeta’s life so he could have a fair-shot at beating him, which directly contradicts his previous actions of wanting to neutralize the main threat. This lop-sided characterization would continue throughout all of Z. Ending Recoome and the other Ginyu Force because he wanted to settle it quickly and not draw Frieza’s attention. -Using the spirit bomb and allowing the others to stall Frieza was also something Toriyama had written. Goku didn’t want to challenge Frieza because he was strong, but because he was hurting and killing good people and his friends. Sure, after becoming Super Saiyan he started being irrational, but that intended due to the nature of becoming the Super Saiyan. But these small inconsistencies have always plagued Z from Goku giving Cell a senzu bean then telling Gohan to stop toying with Cell, to Goku not being satisfied with borrowed power in BOGS: to outright telling Vegeta to grow-up because he wouldn’t fuse-would who go on to refuse to fuse later against Kid Buu etc..: -Overall, I don’t think it’s a Super problem. Goku’s always been written inconsistently but rather than tried a stream-line one version of his character, we’re flip-flopping between the goofy clown who’s “not a hero for justice” –to someone showing regret at the acting of claiming someone’s life and choosing to stay dead to protect the Earth, to being a complete once in a life-time genius (according to Beerus), to “ lEtTiNg yOuR gUaRd dOwN” rookie mistakes. It’s just become a complete “he said, she said” deal where everyone has an idea on what character Goku is to the point not even the author seems to remember how he had wrote this character. I don’t think we should all expect anything different at this point. Goku as a character is just glorified Chinese whispers at this point. 2)Hit's character
Anything interesting about Hit in the anime is not present with the manga variant. The anime and manga have two approaches which sometimes works and often don’t. -The anime ops for the rule of cool when telling its stories. It has these cool moments like Universe-shaking punches, God-powered Kaio-Ken, Giant energy syches, half-immortal beings fusing with the universe, Super Saiyan rage, SSJB powering through black-holes and a whole other visually spectacular feats. However, when you sit-down to think about it, these feats are all superficial and completely nonsensical. From Goku Black making up his own powers on the fly to the universe shaking punches which NEVER has any relevance showcased outside BOGS when WAY stronger characters than SSJG and suppressed Beerus are going at it all the way to characters just inventing new forms on the fly COUGH TRUNKS COUGH-The manga however, ops for the safer approach and tells things more organically and structured. This helps with the pacing and consistently with stuff like the Goku Black arc and erasing a lot of the fodder fights from TOP which more emphasis on power-scaling and building off past-continuity. The problem with the manga is, it doesn’t seem to want to explore the newer aspects or take a creative risk. This can work in some-cases such as when the anime’s Black Arc just a nose-dive after nose-dive with the amount of insane bullshit happening. Being grounded can help and it certainly helped my enjoyment of the arc as a whole. However, this doesn’t work when talking about elements like Hit, Goku Black and Zamasu. The most creative (well, maybe not Black) and popular aspects of the super. They’re rather tame in the manga in comparison to how in the anime they’re full of character and have unique powers. -Manga Black didn’t stand out to me as in the anime he was a giant highlight alongside Hit who has FAR more going for him than his manga counterpart. It probably helped we got to see his outside the tournament arcs and showing what he can really do. Hit’s one of those characters that’s been a fine addition to Super. Yeah, his personality is basically TELEPORTS BEHIND YOU, but he brought back something we haven’t seen in a while in Dragon Ball before. Technique and uniqueness. -We enjoyed watching him fight because when he developed his powers, he also developed as a character through his competition to Goku. I feel like Toytaro just dropped the ball so damn-hard with Hit as the most interesting aspect of his character was thrown away for the sake of having a cool tag-team moment that ultimately proves shallow. Capped off with his ultimate attack just being a lag-switch before being knocked out without contributing a single aspect to his team, unlike the anime where he had eliminations and saved his teammates. -It’s tragically but hilarious twist when you take the time to realize, in the anime we were outraged and annoyed that Hit, a way more interesting and unique character jobbed to Jiren who’s blander than white bread. However, in a cruel-twist of irony in the manga’s case , Jiren has some semblance of personality and character while Hit has been uneventful and uninspiring. Talk about role-reversal.
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