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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 2:52:47 GMT
1. Going off of how Goku and co. describe Moro's ki it sounds like everyone he eats doesn't go to the afterlife. They just get trapped in him. That's cool. He's kind of like a Janemba, except instead of all evil to ever exist in one form, he's all the souls he's ever sucked down a soda straw. I can't wait to see this translate to him punching harder than Goku and Goku punching him even harder back, but hey, maybe something good will come of it. I didn't notice that! It looks like Moro is a combination of every unused movie idea that hadn't already been taken from the manga. He's a galactic prisoner like Bojack and sucks the life out of a planet like the Tree of Might. Maybe he'll have Hirudegarn's ability? |
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Post by Axalon on Feb 5, 2019 3:02:34 GMT
1. Going off of how Goku and co. describe Moro's ki it sounds like everyone he eats doesn't go to the afterlife. They just get trapped in him. That's cool. He's kind of like a Janemba, except instead of all evil to ever exist in one form, he's all the souls he's ever sucked down a soda straw. I can't wait to see this translate to him punching harder than Goku and Goku punching him even harder back, but hey, maybe something good will come of it. I didn't notice that! It looks like Moro is a combination of every unused movie idea that hadn't already been taken from the manga. He's a galactic prisoner like Bojack and sucks the life out of a planet like the Tree of Might. Maybe he'll have Hirudegarn's ability? I think it's too early to say if he's also part Hirudegarn or not, though we'll see. I was actually thinking less Tree of Might and more Big Gete Star though, since the Tree at least gives you fruit for a powerup and, presumably, leaves the withered husk of a planet behind whereas the Star just OMNOMNOMs for sustenance and doesn't give anything back, planet included. But hey, as long as he doesn't incorporate Bio-Broly I guess it's all good... |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Feb 5, 2019 3:14:45 GMT
I didn't notice that! It looks like Moro is a combination of every unused movie idea that hadn't already been taken from the manga. He's a galactic prisoner like Bojack and sucks the life out of a planet like the Tree of Might. Maybe he'll have Hirudegarn's ability? I think it's too early to say if he's also part Hirudegarn or not, though we'll see. I was actually thinking less Tree of Might and more Big Gete Star though, since the Tree at least gives you fruit for a powerup and, presumably, leaves the withered husk of a planet behind whereas the Star just OMNOMNOMs for sustenance and doesn't give anything back, planet included. But hey, as long as he doesn't incorporate Bio-Broly I guess it's all good...Been there done that:  |
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Post by Axalon on Feb 5, 2019 3:19:29 GMT
I think it's too early to say if he's also part Hirudegarn or not, though we'll see. I was actually thinking less Tree of Might and more Big Gete Star though, since the Tree at least gives you fruit for a powerup and, presumably, leaves the withered husk of a planet behind whereas the Star just OMNOMNOMs for sustenance and doesn't give anything back, planet included. But hey, as long as he doesn't incorporate Bio-Broly I guess it's all good...Been there done that: |
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Post by Symbiotic on Feb 5, 2019 4:46:23 GMT
If Toriyama hadn't blown his wad early, we could've had Moro as the one who sealed the Old Kai inside the Z-Sword. That's a good way to build his villain cred, and as a feat it didn't add anything to Beerus.
>but how could he have sealed away the Old Kai if the GSK beat him millions of years later?
Could've been a King Piccolo situation and some idiot freed him.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Feb 5, 2019 20:22:38 GMT
If Toriyama hadn't blown his wad early, we could've had Moro as the one who sealed the Old Kai inside the Z-Sword. That's a good way to build his villain cred, and as a feat it didn't add anything to Beerus. >but how could he have sealed away the Old Kai if the GSK beat him millions of years later? Could've been a King Piccolo situation and some idiot freed him.
I'm a little confused here. Are you Saiyan he would've been sealed away himself after sealing away Old Kai, then freed like King Piccolo, and finally defeated again by GSK? If so that sequence wouldn't even be necessary as he can survive millions of years on his own no problem.
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Post by Axalon on Feb 6, 2019 1:54:33 GMT
If Toriyama hadn't blown his wad early, we could've had Moro as the one who sealed the Old Kai inside the Z-Sword. That's a good way to build his villain cred, and as a feat it didn't add anything to Beerus. >but how could he have sealed away the Old Kai if the GSK beat him millions of years later? Could've been a King Piccolo situation and some idiot freed him.
I'm a little confused here. Are you Saiyan he would've been sealed away himself after sealing away Old Kai, then freed like King Piccolo, and finally defeated again by GSK? If so that sequence wouldn't even be necessary as he can survive millions of years on his own no problem.
Holy shit...what if MORO IS ALSO TAKING FROM GARLIC JR WHO CAN LIVE FOREVER BUT WAS SEALED AWAY BUT THEN GOT OUT BUT THEN GOT SEALED AWAY AGAIN??!! |
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Post by Symbiotic on Feb 6, 2019 5:16:11 GMT
If Toriyama hadn't blown his wad early, we could've had Moro as the one who sealed the Old Kai inside the Z-Sword. That's a good way to build his villain cred, and as a feat it didn't add anything to Beerus. >but how could he have sealed away the Old Kai if the GSK beat him millions of years later? Could've been a King Piccolo situation and some idiot freed him.
I'm a little confused here. Are you Saiyan he would've been sealed away himself after sealing away Old Kai, then freed like King Piccolo, and finally defeated again by GSK? If so that sequence wouldn't even be necessary as he can survive millions of years on his own no problem.
Yes, since if he was draining planets for millions of years I don't think there'd be 28 good ones left in the present... or would there? Thanks Kor, you made a good idea even better. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Feb 6, 2019 20:05:23 GMT
I'm a little confused here. Are you Saiyan he would've been sealed away himself after sealing away Old Kai, then freed like King Piccolo, and finally defeated again by GSK? If so that sequence wouldn't even be necessary as he can survive millions of years on his own no problem.
Yes, since if he was draining planets for millions of years I don't think there'd be 28 good ones left in the present... or would there? Thanks Kor, you made a good idea even better.
No problem.
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Post by Axalon on Feb 7, 2019 21:01:44 GMT
I'm a little confused here. Are you Saiyan he would've been sealed away himself after sealing away Old Kai, then freed like King Piccolo, and finally defeated again by GSK? If so that sequence wouldn't even be necessary as he can survive millions of years on his own no problem.
Yes, since if he was draining planets for millions of years I don't think there'd be 28 good ones left in the present... or would there? Thanks Kor, you made a good idea even better. Don't forget the likes of Beerus, Frieza, Buu, the Saiyans, etc also all contributing to destruction every now and then. Aside from the creation of New Namek I don't think we've ever seen a planet get created in U7 either, so Shin and the Old Kai better start getting their asses in gear otherwise that number is just going to dwindle even further. Or at the very least use goddamned Porunga to help the creation effort or something. |
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Post by Symbiotic on Feb 8, 2019 4:35:42 GMT
Yes, since if he was draining planets for millions of years I don't think there'd be 28 good ones left in the present... or would there? Thanks Kor, you made a good idea even better. Don't forget the likes of Beerus, Frieza, Buu, the Saiyans, etc also all contributing to destruction every now and then. Aside from the creation of New Namek I don't think we've ever seen a planet get created in U7 either, so Shin and the Old Kai better start getting their asses in gear otherwise that number is just going to dwindle even further. Or at the very least use goddamned Porunga to help the creation effort or something. I'm laying most of the blame on Beerus for that one. Frieza & the Saiyans' modus operandi still needed the planet left to sell to others, while Beerus just blew them up for any silly reason. He should have known to slow down his pace since there was only one Supreme Kai left for millennia, and an unqualified one at that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 19:50:52 GMT
Don't forget the likes of Beerus, Frieza, Buu, the Saiyans, etc also all contributing to destruction every now and then. Aside from the creation of New Namek I don't think we've ever seen a planet get created in U7 either, so Shin and the Old Kai better start getting their asses in gear otherwise that number is just going to dwindle even further. Or at the very least use goddamned Porunga to help the creation effort or something. I don't think New Namek was created. Moori said they wanted to relocate to a suitable planet so I think Porunga just looked for one that appeared close enough to the original. In the Goku Black saga, we only saw Gowasu watching over mortal races and saying the Kaioshin only get involved if something disturbs the natural balance of the universe which I'm pretty sure is what we assumed the Kaioshin have always done before DBS. The whole creating planets idea may have either been un-retconned or left as supplementary information that won't appear in the series. |
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Post by Axalon on Feb 16, 2019 20:51:25 GMT
Don't forget the likes of Beerus, Frieza, Buu, the Saiyans, etc also all contributing to destruction every now and then. Aside from the creation of New Namek I don't think we've ever seen a planet get created in U7 either, so Shin and the Old Kai better start getting their asses in gear otherwise that number is just going to dwindle even further. Or at the very least use goddamned Porunga to help the creation effort or something. I'm laying most of the blame on Beerus for that one. Frieza & the Saiyans' modus operandi still needed the planet left to sell to others, while Beerus just blew them up for any silly reason. He should have known to slow down his pace since there was only one Supreme Kai left for millennia, and an unqualified one at that. I think Beerus should come up in 2nd place actually. Far-fetched as it may have been, Beerus at least HAD a reason. Buu just did it. Frieza and his ilk may have kept (most of) the planets intact, but their casual genocide surely wasn't helping the mortal level either. I don't think New Namek was created. Moori said they wanted to relocate to a suitable planet so I think Porunga just looked for one that appeared close enough to the original. In the Goku Black saga, we only saw Gowasu watching over mortal races and saying the Kaioshin only get involved if something disturbs the natural balance of the universe which I'm pretty sure is what we assumed the Kaioshin have always done before DBS. The whole creating planets idea may have either been un-retconned or left as supplementary information that won't appear in the series. You're right, they DID in fact just relocate to a different planet in the Namekians' case. That said, we know it's well within the capabilities of the dragons to make planets. As for the Kaioshin role, who even knows at this point? To me it looks like that lame Prime Directive from Star Trek where they just don't interfere with anything. If they don't even make planets anymore, then what even is their function anyway? Hope villains only stay as weak as Frieza, but let them conduct genocidal campaigns across the universe? I feel like the Kais are just kinda there to be there, if that makes any sense. Besides train Goku or warn him about things, what does King Kai even do from day to day that doesn't involve waxing his car? Seems like another world building failure. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 5:28:53 GMT
As for the Kaioshin role, who even knows at this point? To me it looks like that lame Prime Directive from Star Trek where they just don't interfere with anything. If they don't even make planets anymore, then what even is their function anyway? Hope villains only stay as weak as Frieza, but let them conduct genocidal campaigns across the universe? I feel like the Kais are just kinda there to be there, if that makes any sense. Besides train Goku or warn him about things, what does King Kai even do from day to day that doesn't involve waxing his car? Seems like another world building failure. Yeah, we didn't learn much about their role other than they watch over the universe and afterlife. I think it's better to stick with a simpler role than to retcon and add more to it but never actually explore it. Toei came up with the concept of God of Destruction before Toriyama become involved so I assume he decided to turn the Kaioshin into Gods of Creation after that. I don't think it's been brought up since BoG so I'm not sure if Toriyama forgot or just ignored it. When Beerus blamed Shin for their low mortal score, he never mentioned anything about Shin not creating enough planets. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Feb 21, 2019 4:17:34 GMT
Holy shit!!! Moro is indeed ridiculously OP beyond imagine. Damn I wonder if even Beerus could defeat him.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Feb 21, 2019 5:46:34 GMT
This alone made it the best chapter in my opinion.  Legit though, did Moro absorb the God Ki from Vegeta (can he even?) as well as Vegeta's SSJ energy, or just the latter and Vegeta is back to "Saiyan beyond God" crap where he can use God Ki in his base form? Hey so, Goku and Vegeta didn't turn Super Saiyan at all during the EoZ era, did they?... So... if Moro's energy drain from Vegeta somehow remains permanent, and Vegeta can't go SSJ anymore... and he only has God Ki left... and the last time the Supreme Kais fought Moro, they had to sacrifice some of their God Ki to seal him away... Yo, there's no way this is the last Saga for Super, is it? At least during this "not-Timeskip" era? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 17:11:15 GMT
Moro is a pretty badass magician! This doesn't seem like it's going to be that long of a saga. Moro is already God tier and has only gotten stronger after absorbing their energy. I'm not sure how the Saiyans are going to make it out of this unless someone comes to help them. Other random thoughts... -#17 might be their best bet against Moro. Assuming he doesn't any human ki leftover after becoming a cyborg, Moro wouldn't be able to absorb any of his energy. -Would Hakai work against him or could it also be absorbed? -In a previous chapter that revealed his planet eating ability, all the animals of that planet died. In this chapter, he only absorbed enough energy from the Nameks to make them dizzy. I guess they wouldn't go as far as kill the Nameks because I'm pretty sure they can't be wished back by Shenron. It would add some tension though since they can't rely on Porunga being able keep resurrecting people who have already died (if this took place after EoZ I mean). Yo, there's no way this is the last Saga for Super, is it? At least during this "not-Timeskip" era? This saga is written by Toyotaro with "supervision" from Toriyama so I don't think Toriyama would have someone else write the last saga...unless he wasn't sure how to end it and thought this was a good enough idea. Freeza is still out there so losing God ki means Freeza could easily kill them the next time. Side note: When Goku and Vegeta found out Moro was heading for New Namek, they quickly rushed there to protect it. It's nice they care about the Nameks but that about the rest of the universe? They let Freeza go so nothing is stopping him from conquering and clearing out planets until he eventually finds New Namek. It's supposed to be far out there but there are so few planets left that he would eventually run out of nearby planets and have to expand his search. |
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Feb 21, 2019 20:59:42 GMT
Side note: When Goku and Vegeta found out Moro was heading for New Namek, they quickly rushed there to protect it. It's nice they care about the Nameks but that about the rest of the universe? They let Freeza go so nothing is stopping him from conquering and clearing out planets until he eventually finds New Namek. It's supposed to be far out there but there are so few planets left that he would eventually run out of nearby planets and have to expand his search. That's not as bad as a Supreme Kai asking a couple of mortals for help rather than asking his soul mate [pun intended], Lord Beerus, who's definitely able to handle SSJ3 tier in just two hits. Not to mention, said threat is destroying the universe, even though the GoD of U7 was already destroying plants arbitrarily, based on whether they pissed him off or provided him bad food or both. As for why the duo let Frieza go instead of stopping him from potentially finding New Namek, I guess it's because they think Frieza wouldn't kill as many inhabitants in comparison to Moro? Idk man, it's about the same level of thinking in comparison to why there was no mentioning of New Namek or the HTC in the Future Timelines. Or why nobody threw Buu into Whis' "dimension" to speed up his nap time. Hell, even Goku's asking why they don't just attack Moro while he's charging up. The moment you apply rational thinking to a series like DB, the less the reader is going to be pleased with the course of action. Edit: I guess since the Kaioshins dealt with beings like Bibidi, who was just a mortal wanting to overthrow the Gods, Moro would just be another mortal who is super powerful and can suck the lifeforce out of the living beings. [Aka I doubt he can manipulate God Ki, absorb or otherwise, but that remains to be seen.] inb4 Frieza manages to find New Namek after all these years, and gets his power sucked away by Moro "just before retaining his power since Mecha-Frieza." Idk, it's good speculation material that Moro's gonna "end" Super here since the whole "GSK lost a lot of his God energy to seal Moro away." Combined with the fact that if Vegeta really can't turn SSJ anymore, that could explain why Goku's eager to meet Uub in the future. (Though one flaw would be Goku being stuck in base and Uub being SSJ3 tier because he's the reincarnated Buu?) Meh, time will tell. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Feb 21, 2019 21:02:21 GMT
Something tells me that what Moro did to Vegeta, Goku, & the Namekians wasn't a permanent drain. To me it felt like in his weakened state he was just performing a forceful energy drain magical version of the Spirit Bomb charging, but at a much faster rate and w/o the being stuck in one spot thing.
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Post by Ashanark on Feb 22, 2019 0:14:01 GMT
Oh look, Vegeta jobbing to the new bad guy. I seriously don't know how DB's writers keep coming up with all these original ideas.
Super's BoG arc was a retelling, RoF was a retelling of a "old bad guy comes back but stronger" crap idea, and tournament arcs write themselves. That means after the Zamasu saga, Moro is the second real arc of Super. All these arcs are pretty slim competition, and Skar was, of course, right that Super's next villain would be YET ANOTHER ancient evil person nobody's heard of, but nevertheless to me Moro is the most interesting DBS villain so far. His wish means he's King Piccolo with a Super 17 flavor (and the paint job of one of those fan-designed GoDs people came up with back before the ToP was a thing) but we've never seen a threatening magic user in Dragon Ball before. The closest you get are Chaotzu, Guldo, and Babidi and all of them were small fry, both physically and in plot importance. Unfortunately energy draining is such a broken ability that I can't see Toyotaro coming up with a satisfying way of beating Moro.
Shonen laws dictate the bad guy must achieve his ultimate strength and he must be beaten in a straight fight. If Toyotaro is ambitious this means Goku and Vegeta will only beat him by mastering Ultra Instinct. (Like, really really super-duper mastering Ultra Instinct.) If Toyotaro chickens out, this means Goku and Vegeta get their god ki back and beat Moro with SSB plus some Deus Ex Machina of the week. This is all unfortunate, because if Goku and Vegeta lose their god ki you could reset to EoZ PLs pretty easily. Heck, have Moro kill Beerus and have Frieza die killing Moro and you're good to go.
The older I get the less interest I have in Dragon Ball, but this saga has me intrigued so far.
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