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Post by Archon on Nov 11, 2016 6:19:02 GMT
Q: "Can SSB3.5+ Vegito take Beerus" Toriyama: "Nah" It bothers me how "Who's the strongest fighter out of them all" was answered. The person asking the question obviously meant Fused Zamasu and Vegito. Saying "Well, Beerus is strong, but after him is Goku Black" is pointless. We already knew Beerus could beat Goku Black. What about the fusions? How the heck is Fused Zamasu being one person supposed to be a weakness? Or stealing Goku's body? I sense a Deus Ex Machina incoming. I also question how Trunks is supposed to be of any help in the upcoming battle when he's, like, 4 tiers of power irrelevant by now. That little comment about Vegito having a special weakness "not normally found in Potara Fusions" makes me pretty certain Vegito isn't going to beat Zamasu. They'll come up with some lame excuse to get Vegito to defuse so they have to find another way to win. I sense a tempus ex machina. Probably pull a "Let's go back in time to when Zamasu wished for immortality/Goku's body and kill him"
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Post by Axalon on Nov 11, 2016 6:20:47 GMT
Q: "Can SSB3.5+ Vegito take Beerus" Toriyama: "Nah" It bothers me how "Who's the strongest fighter out of them all" was answered. The person asking the question obviously meant Fused Zamasu and Vegito. Saying "Well, Beerus is strong, but after him is Goku Black" is pointless. We already knew Beerus could beat Goku Black. What about the fusions? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Beerus is stronger than the fusions. If true, this is something I don't mind. I actually love the fact that for all the progress Goku and Vegeta have made he's still just that much stronger than them. It's nice to finally have someone there as basically a big wall that Goku keeps running into face first. There has to be DEM coming. Given that it was just explicitly confirmed that he retained immortality and they don't have the seal needed for the Mafuba to work and apparently Vegito SUDDENLY has a weakness that apparently the average potara fusion doesn't have...yeah. DEM. Also have no idea about Trunks. I counted him out a long time ago and then suddenly he gets that still unexplained SSB 0.5 form that puts him somewhat on par with SSB. Perhaps he'll suddenly get SS3 and combine that form with his other powerup to stay relevant.
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Post by Symbiotic on Nov 11, 2016 6:49:31 GMT
Q: "Can SSB3.5+ Vegito take Beerus" Toriyama: "Nah" It bothers me how "Who's the strongest fighter out of them all" was answered. The person asking the question obviously meant Fused Zamasu and Vegito. Saying "Well, Beerus is strong, but after him is Goku Black" is pointless. We already knew Beerus could beat Goku Black. What about the fusions? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Beerus is stronger than the fusions. If true, this is something I don't mind. I actually love the fact that for all the progress Goku and Vegeta have made he's still just that much stronger than them. It's nice to finally have someone there as basically a big wall that Goku keeps running into face first. There has to be DEM coming. Given that it was just explicitly confirmed that he retained immortality and they don't have the seal needed for the Mafuba to work and apparently Vegito SUDDENLY has a weakness that apparently the average potara fusion doesn't have...yeah. DEM. Also have no idea about Trunks. I counted him out a long time ago and then suddenly he gets that still unexplained SSB 0.5 form that puts him somewhat on par with SSB. Perhaps he'll suddenly get SS3 and combine that form with his other powerup to stay relevant. I'll bet the weakness has to do with one half not being a Kaioshin. Not sure how that's relevant, but its worth considering.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 11, 2016 7:11:17 GMT
1. So does that mean the possible Vegito + Trunks Fusion can surpass Beerus if Trunks could reach SS3? 2. It's Bullshit on how Goku Black is considered the strongest when Vegeta straight up called him out on this and how Goku was the one who knew how to use the body's potential to the max. 3. Pointing out how Zamasu was just a single person originally just sounds "Wish Specific" cuz there really isn't much reason we had to have this info singled out (no pun intended) 4. So merging with a mortal has negative effects... okay I guess I could buy that, but I have to ask. Is Old Kai's witch a "God" (and I'm using the term loosely) or a mortal? If Zamasu fucked up by merging with a mortal but Old Kai didn't, then I call Bullshit. Like TFS Krillin said, it sounds like AT wrote Zamasu to have immortality and immediately regretted it cuz he backed himself into a corner. 5. "Trunks will get a chance to shine too" Sorry pal, as much as I hype for ya and that new form of yours, unless you become a SSG/B or some variation, you can't count. All you could do at this point is pull a Vegeta and launch an attack to distract the villain. 6. Vegito's weakness not normally found in the portaras... No. No. No. rant incoming Merged Zamasu has the weakness not normally found. Merging with a mortal and a God. This should've the climatic end. Goku and Vegeta realizing they can't reach the level of Merged Zamasu on their own and swallowing their prides to accept the help of fusion summoning Vegito. If that got out of hand, admit that wasn't enough and ask to fuse with the next strongest saiyan. Trunks. Or even more random: Gohan if that's acceptable, (#makeGohangreatagain) and have him fuse with Goku like we originally wanted. Or even better. Fusion dance Gohan and Future Trunks, and then portara fusion that and Vegito. That's the ultimate warrior.
I feel like Super is just making us question the abilities and nature of our original, beloved heroes of Z. Rant again Goku is now brain dead stupid.
Vegeta is now willing to play servant boy to Beerus when we originally see him full of his pride, finally swallowing when Goku was fighting Kid Buu.
Trunks admitted to have just let Vegeta and Goku fight Black (original intent, he had no idea about merged Zam) when in Z he was willing to fight along side everyone else. He may be behind in terms of power bc of Goku and Vegeta becoming Saiyan beyond gods but this is ridiculous how Trunks would've admitted to sitting out and letting the duo take care of the problem.
Gohan's slacking was worse than the 7 years peace. The idea of keeping him being so far behind from training. He could multitask, train, conference, father and still maintain his life properly. Now he just became lazier than Yajirobe. Gohan knew he had to fight for the greater good, Saiyan invasion he was kidnapped. Namek he went for the sake of Piccolo his first master. Cell he didn't have a choice but after hearing Trunks say humanity was at risk, he came through. Majin buu was the highlight of his mistake, how he didn't keep up and he regretted it. It's like in super he didn't learn anything in his life battles.
AND NOW VEGITO HAS SOME SORT OF WEAKNESS! I'd be fine with saying his fusion wasn't enough to rival Zamasu but having a weakness just threw his status of badass out the window, at least for me so far.
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Post by Archon on Nov 11, 2016 7:54:47 GMT
Oh snap I think I just realized what it might be. It might be a paradox thing. Two exact same souls being fused togethor might be similar to inbreeding or having purebred dogs. More likely for health issues etc. Might not be a body thing at all and just the souls.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Nov 11, 2016 8:18:07 GMT
Oh snap I think I just realized what it might be. It might be a paradox thing. Two exact same souls being fused togethor might be similar to inbreeding or having purebred dogs. More likely for health issues etc. Might not be a body thing at all and just the souls. IMO, fusing with himself certainly inflicted a huge mental damage. Look at how demented he sounded in the previous episode. I've always thought the craziest villains were those who truly believed their acts were righteous. Deformed Zamasu did not seem any weaker though. I read a theory on youtube, that said that due to: Swapping a mortal body with a god soul with some superpowerful magic orbs, while jumping in time while being safeguarded only by a time ring, only to ask for a OP immortality with those same orbs, then fusing with some magic earrings, in spite of having the same soul, and doing so in a powered up state, etc etc the natural balance and order is so screwed it may have started to have drawbacks. When you think about it, it makes lots of sense.
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Post by Axalon on Nov 11, 2016 8:52:28 GMT
2. It's Bullshit on how Goku Black is considered the strongest when Vegeta straight up called him out on this and how Goku was the one who knew how to use the body's potential to the max. Vegeta finally kicking Black's ass after all this time was so satisfying. Of course, since it was Vegeta and Vegeta can't ever be allowed to finish a main villain, it was too good to last.
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Post by Veya on Nov 11, 2016 17:11:34 GMT
Here's what I am expecting that they will "make Trunks shine": Mafuba.
Future Roshi is alive and well, so I am fully expecting them to get a Mafuba seal from him, and have Trunks use it on Zamasu² while Vegeto distracts him, the Mafuba is in itself a "cheat" technique that allows much weaker fighters to dominate stronger ones, so it would be the perfect way of making Goku, Vegeta AND Trunks relevant to finally beating Zamasu, I feel it would also tie a LOT of things together, now most details in the arc, like Goku forgetting the seal and Trunks learning the Mafuba and the like, have a purpose instead of feeling random.
I would legitimately bet money that this is what is going to happen if I could, it feels too logical.
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Post by Azoth on Nov 12, 2016 1:24:03 GMT
Anyone else feel like this saga is meandering? We've bounced between timelines two or three times, every solution so far has either failed or been rendered useless due to character stupidity, and these new events just seem like they're stalling for time. It feels similar to Buu Saga, just wandering around with a bunch of different solutions that didn't work. I feel like we could cut down on a lot of this material by dropping a bunch of these unnecessary scenes and ideas.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 1:57:07 GMT
I found something on Kanzenshuu about Vegetto's weakness. Apparently he's so powerful that it forces the Potara to have a time-limit and he defuses :/. I'm not sure where this spoiler came from since it wasn't on Herms's twitter. This is a preview for episode 67 which is supposed to be the last episode of the saga: ![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxACquGVQAAVEVa.jpg) I don't think a Senzu bean would help so I'm guessing what he pulls out of his pocket is the Zeno button. I hope that doesn't happen :/. EDIT It won't let me post the image for some reason so here is Herms's twitter account. Anyone else feel like this saga is meandering? We've bounced between timelines two or three times, every solution so far has either failed or been rendered useless due to character stupidity, and these new events just seem like they're stalling for time. It feels similar to Buu Saga, just wandering around with a bunch of different solutions that didn't work. I feel like we could cut down on a lot of this material by dropping a bunch of these unnecessary scenes and ideas. I think Toei might be stalling to give the manga time to catch up. It feels like it drags on a little. Toriyama is supposed to reveal the plot of the next saga sometime in December so I'm guessing the new saga might air in January. That means the manga will complete this saga in another two or three chapters. This saga in the manga will be six or seven chapters long while Toei stretch out the same outline to fill around 20 episodes!
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 12, 2016 5:31:05 GMT
Anyone else feel like this saga is meandering? We've bounced between timelines two or three times, every solution so far has either failed or been rendered useless due to character stupidity, and these new events just seem like they're stalling for time. It feels similar to Buu Saga, just wandering around with a bunch of different solutions that didn't work. I feel like we could cut down on a lot of this material by dropping a bunch of these unnecessary scenes and ideas. Wanna joke and say "It's called filler buddy" but yeah, I honestly feel like it should just wait for the source to match up, not be forced to drag an arc like this.
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Nov 12, 2016 11:51:59 GMT
I found something on Kanzenshuu about Vegetto's weakness. Apparently he's so powerful that it forces the Potara to have a time-limit and he defuses :/. I'm not sure where this spoiler came from since it wasn't on Herms's twitter. This is a preview for episode 67 which is supposed to be the last episode of the saga: RANT - NO! Why defuse! We want more VEGITO damnit! But then i fear they might spoil Vegito too as they did with Goku and Vegeta's volatile characters(Super only) That Zamasu's "spreading in the sky" feels more like XXI from DBM. Like XXI's original body is a dark cloud of absolute power with shining eyes or something.
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Post by Drakthul on Nov 13, 2016 3:16:02 GMT
The only reason why I disliked this episode was the retconning to a certain piece of jewelry.
Other than that, animation was spectacular (for once) and the battle was actually really well done.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Nov 15, 2016 20:01:01 GMT
Anyone else notice that if we take the vowels away from Zamasu's name, we get "Z" "M" and "S" and those are the names of the following dragon ball Z dragon ball Multiverse dragon ball Super All are in chronological order of appearance? Does anyone else see this as a nod from AT? AshanarkI know you posted your pic about Bra and Black similarities, could you take a crack at this?
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Post by Drakthul on Nov 16, 2016 3:41:30 GMT
Anyone else notice that if we take the vowels away from Zamasu's name, we get "Z" "M" and "S" and those are the names of the following dragon ball Z dragon ball Multiverse dragon ball Super All are in chronological order of appearance? Does anyone else see this as a nod from AT? Ashanark I know you posted your pic about Bra and Black similarities, could you take a crack at this? No.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 19:07:48 GMT
Vegetto was pretty epic for the few minutes he appeared. I didn't like the Potara timelimit BS and the Spirit Bomb sword was cool but didn't make any sense. It felt like a forced cheap way to have Trunks be the one to save his timeline. I'm hoping a lot of what we saw in the past few episodes is filler and not included in the manga version. The past few episodes felt really filler-y compared to how fights went down in the original manga. For example, Goku and Vegeta spent some time fighting Buuhan individually in the anime before Vegeta accepted to fuse while in the manga, Vegeta immediately figured out they were outmatched and fused before Buuhan arrived.
In this saga, they kept going back and forth between timelines without even trying to come up with a plan until like the third or fourth trip. In the original, it only took one beatdown for the heroes to realize they have to try something else. I'm guessing the manga version will have them only make one or two trips. Maybe they lose once and then Goku decides to learn the Mafuba before returning back.
I would've preferred if they left out all the filler and made the saga only 10-15 episodes instead of stretching it out to last +20 episodes. To give time for the manga to catch up, they could've had more slice of life filler like the SSJ Hercule episode or Piccolo babysitting Pan. That way the actual sagas would have better pacing and they wouldn't have to needlessly drag on the fight scenes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 4:20:20 GMT
I've been working on this parody about how I would perceive the Goku Black saga if it were a fanfic presented to me a few years ago ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) . I posted it as a link since it's kinda long: i.imgbox.com/8h86fLmp.pngOverall, I thought it was a fun saga. Zamasu was an interesting villain but I think his motives could've used a little more fleshing out. I don't remember it being explained how he planned to wipe out all mortals or what he planned to do afterwards. Was he going to go from planet to planet slowly committing genocide or was there some multiverse or universe-level mass extinction event he was working on? Was he going to create new lifeforms himself afterwards? Other than that I don't think anything about it really stood out. It felt like another "harmless" side-story type saga like the others we've seen in DBS.
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Post by Son Pan on Nov 18, 2016 4:43:15 GMT
I've been working on this parody about how I would perceive the Goku Black saga if it were a fanfic presented to me a few years ago ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) . I posted it as a link since it's kinda long: i.imgbox.com/8h86fLmp.pngOverall, I thought it was a fun saga. Zamasu was an interesting villain but I think his motives could've used a little more fleshing out. I don't remember it being explained how he planned to wipe out all mortals or what he planned to do afterwards. Was he going to go from planet to planet slowly committing genocide or was there some multiverse or universe-level mass extinction event he was working on? Was he going to create new lifeforms himself afterwards? Other than that I don't think anything about it really stood out. It felt like another "harmless" side-story type saga like the others we've seen in DBS. Wasn't he going to stick in Trunks' timeline/universe because it was one of the few where the God of Destruction wasn't around to oppose him?
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Post by Ashanark on Nov 18, 2016 5:08:57 GMT
Overall, I thought it was a fun saga. Zamasu was an interesting villain but I think his motives could've used a little more fleshing out. I don't remember it being explained how he planned to wipe out all mortals or what he planned to do afterwards. Was he going to go from planet to planet slowly committing genocide or was there some multiverse or universe-level mass extinction event he was working on? Was he going to create new lifeforms himself afterwards? Other than that I don't think anything about it really stood out. It felt like another "harmless" side-story type saga like the others we've seen in DBS. ![](https://s21.postimg.org/ts7b2fzg7/shere_khan_clap.gif) Always fun to see stuff deconstructed. You bring up a good point in your parody that if Zamasu can swap bodies with almost anyone, it would've been a lot smarter for him to swap with someone stronger than Goku. Also, you're right in that he never explained what he was actually going to do once everyone was dead. The Potara things bothers me. I mean, yeah, it bothers me because it's stupid, but the main reason it bothers me is that, from now on, every time I look up Vegito vs. Buu or when Vegito shows up in DBM, there's going to be commenters saying "But Potara only has a one-hour time limit!" I agree it was still fun to watch, and definitely an ambitious attempt: no Dragon Ball saga has attempted a serious romance, for one thing, or had a villain with as complex of a plan and backstory as Zamasu. But at the end of the day it seems very much like a fanfic: no real stakes, no one but the villain dies, there's weird logic/transformations/pacing, and the author's favorite character wins the day. While I rarely want to see something fail (I'd much rather see something be really good and succeed), perhaps it might be for the best if Super stays as silly as possible, so that years from now we can stick it in the same boat as GT: a heavily flawed but fun DBZ sequel than we can safely ignore.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2016 5:12:59 GMT
Wasn't he going to stick in Trunks' timeline/universe because it was one of the few where the God of Destruction wasn't around to oppose him? Yeah I remember him deciding to stay in the future timeline after Kaioshin was killed by Dabura since Beerus would be out of the way. I recall Goku Black being responsible for killing the Kaioshin of other universes to get rid of the other Gods of Destruction. I'm not sure what happened to Future Zeno or Future Kaio Priest guy or they couldn't intervene. What I meant was his Zero Mortal Plan where he wanted to wipe out all mortals. I was curious how he was planning to do that. Out of all villains we've seen, he's like the slowest when it comes to killing people ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) . Fat Buu managed to wipe out the majority of Earth's population in a day (or few hours?) and Super Buu finished the job in one attack. In the time Goku Black was terrorizing the Earth, a team of Saiyan Oozarus probably could've already wiped out all the humans.
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