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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 2:08:52 GMT
Hmm, haven't checked this thread out for a while and I could use a good laugh. *DB- is officially canon* Fuck this I'm out!!![](https://media1.tenor.com/images/aa26bdc2819d39974667bce6922ab10d/tenor.gif?itemid=5251340) Stop lying to yourself Jim...........
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 5, 2018 2:16:34 GMT
I wasn't a fan of Minus either. I know people felt like Goku and Superman's origins were similar enough as it is, but Toriyama completely overhauling it to make it so Goku's parents send him away to save him out of love and making them feel like better people felt meh compared to his original origin story. I liked Goku was legitimately sent to conquer Earth and he happened to have an accident that made him forget and made him more gentle. It had this whole nature vs. nurture aspect to the character that succeeded in adding a new layer to Goku when the alien origin was created way back then. I can see Toriyama liking the fist Bardock film enough to make him canon, but wanting to change the story to fit his own sensibilities better, but it felt like the special really did nothing new or was even really entertaining.
That being said I do like some new elements added here, such as Saiyans babies being in incubators. I always thought Vegeta was older than Goku and about the same age as Raditz or slightly older. Other than that it does a great job showing how the Saiyans treat their offspring like a production lined soldiers who are going to be used to conquer worlds. I would hope this adds more to Gine's character, because she felt like she was just there in the special from my memory. Also have the Saiyans really only been working for Freeza for a few years when he destroyed the planet? I always thought they had at least been working under him for a generation or two. I don't know why though.
Say what you will about Toei I have to admit that they did have some cool ideas and added a lot of cool stuff in their anime only added Saiyan lore. The Tuffle and Saiyan war always felt awesome, Bardock movie was great and made a minor character stand out, the original Broly movie kind of worked in some ways, and Freeza blowing up the planet was so much sweeter in both Z anime and the movie itself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 2:21:06 GMT
Ahh who fucking cares..... just gimme that fucking DB content and I'll slurp it up like the cock hungry slut that I am.
FUCK!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 3:54:33 GMT
Son PanWhat's interesting is that Toriyama was actually the one to come up with the Tuffles for the anime. Kanzenshuu has a guide listing Toriyama's contributions to the anime including filler characters and ideas. Toriyama: Planet Plant is a difficult planet to live on, as its gravity is unusually strong. However, two races live here. The majority of the inhabitants of Planet Plant are Tsufruian. Their bodies are small, but knowledge-wise they have a comparatively advanced culture and civilization. The other race has an unusually small population, but their bodies are large and strong. They are a primitive, warlike race called the Saiyans. Their biggest distinguishing characteristic is that they have tails, and every one of them seems to be a warrior.Toei deserves credit for the Bardock TV special and one of my favorite DB stories in general. When we say Toei, we're not really giving credit to the various writers who worked on the series and have since retired. Takao Koyama wrote the Bardock special along with the original 13 movies and Plan to Eradicte the Saiyans. He also spent many years working on the anime including GT. I think his last contribution was the Tarble special before he retired. I like think DBS would've been much better if he was still around.
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Post by supergojita3 on Oct 5, 2018 3:59:54 GMT
So I just watched it again with the subtitles and just now noticed this, was Frieza's first form design retconned?
i.imgur.com/ttayZt7.jpg
He's missing the shoulder covers and the lines throughout his appendages. Wonder if that's a mistake or something. .Its his other OTHER restricted form, even more restricted than his 4th restricted form...or they just gone dun fucked up.
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Post by Jason9000 on Oct 5, 2018 10:27:13 GMT
So I just watched it again with the subtitles and just now noticed this, was Frieza's first form design retconned?
i.imgur.com/ttayZt7.jpg
He's missing the shoulder covers and the lines throughout his appendages. Wonder if that's a mistake or something. .Its his other OTHER restricted form, even more restricted than his 4th restricted form...or they just gone dun fucked up. Honestly, I just took it as it being a younger Frieza and didn't have 'grow' into his shoulder pads left. Since he some how has bio armor as well. Although to be honest I always thought that Frieza was old and that his father was getting close to ancient. That the reason he wanted to gain immortality was because he was afraid of dying and didn't want to find out that there was a Hell and he would be sent there on account of his genocidal tendencies. Not just so one could ever challenge him. Although Super showed us that immortality means shit and that if Vegeta did become immortal, he would have lost to Frieza and if Frieza had any sense he'd just fly off into space holding onto Vegeta and chuck him into a star where he'd be stuck till the star burns out in intense agony. Poor guy would probably go mad from the insane pressure of gravity and the heat.
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Post by Kirasha on Oct 5, 2018 10:44:16 GMT
Frieza looks younger yes, most likely didn't grow out his bioarmor just yet and all that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 13:49:16 GMT
supergojita3Freeza: This isn't even my first form! Jason9000I could buy Freeza being younger if it was a flashback well before he destroyed Planet Vegeta. In every other version of that iconic moment whether it was in the anime or manga, Freeza looked the same as he did on Namek so I don't know if they would intentionally decide to change him now. It could just be the more roundish, early DBZ style art makes him look younger because Goku also looks younger in the trailer. I think the missing shoulder pad things might just be an animation error. Freeza was always wearing his armor in his first form in the Bardock special, RoF, Minus, and on Namek aside from a few seconds on Namek before he transformed. Since his shoulder things aren't vision when he's wearing the armor, the animators may have forgot he had them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2018 21:22:56 GMT
supergojita3 Freeza: This isn't even my first form! Jason9000 I could buy Freeza being younger if it was a flashback well before he destroyed Planet Vegeta. In every other version of that iconic moment whether it was in the anime or manga, Freeza looked the same as he did on Namek so I don't know if they would intentionally decide to change him now. It could just be the more roundish, early DBZ style art makes him look younger because Goku also looks younger in the trailer. I think the missing shoulder pad things might just be an animation error. Freeza was always wearing his armor in his first form in the Bardock special, RoF, Minus, and on Namek aside from a few seconds on Namek before he transformed. Since his shoulder things aren't vision when he's wearing the armor, the animators may have forgot he had them. This is just hilariously painful to read because it could be true. I mean Freeza isn't one of the most prolific animated villains of all time or anything...... I mean what, is EVERYONE involved with "official" DB content these days senile or somethin? Struth mate....
I want to believe that they are at least TRYING to take this movie seriously so this was done intentionally.
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Post by Axalon on Oct 7, 2018 0:08:05 GMT
Ah damn it DB Minus is blundering its way into this movie. Great. Still, I think its hilarious that DB Minus retconned Bardock: Father of Goku, but is itself being retconned to include Broly in it.
Oh DB and your elusive grasp of continuity...JUST GIVE BARDOCK HIS BANDANA SOAKED WITH THE BLOOD OF HIS COMRADES BACK GODDAMMIT.
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Post by supergojita3 on Oct 7, 2018 1:42:15 GMT
Ah damn it DB Minus is blundering its way into this movie. Great. Still, I think its hilarious that DB Minus retconned Bardock: Father of Goku, but is itself being retconned to include Broly in it. Oh DB and your elusive grasp of continuity...JUST GIVE BARDOCK HIS BANDANA SOAKED WITH THE BLOOD OF HIS COMRADES BACK GODDAMMIT. You know, that would be nice. the blood soaked bandanna would be a great nod to those who liked the OG bardock story. Did you guys see mistare fusions review and dissection of that movie? it was great.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 1:58:19 GMT
@invaderjim It's the best I can come up with unless they can offer an explanation in the movie. I get the feeling that 90% of retcons/changes in DBS were unintentional and they're a result of either Toriyama or Toei forgetting how something originally was so they slap on a new idea without giving it much consideration. A lot of them were pointless and require fans to come up with extra headcanon to make them work. I don't think any author purposely go out there way to do something like that especially when leaving it alone requires less work and makes more sense for the story.
It's like DB Minus for example. Toriyama may have looked back at the manga and thought "Hmm I included Goku's father in a panel or two in the manga. I guess I should give him a backstory!" completely forgetting about the original Bardock TV special. Toriyama always seems like a humble guy in interviews and he was apparently inspired to include Bardock in the manga after watching the TV special so I doubt he would truly believe that his short mediocre chapter about Goku's parents was superior to the original if he remembered it.
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Post by supergojita3 on Oct 7, 2018 2:03:40 GMT
@invaderjim It's the best I can come up with unless they can offer an explanation in the movie. I get the feeling that 90% of retcons/changes in DBS were unintentional and they're a result of either Toriyama or Toei forgetting how something originally was so they slap on a new idea without giving it much consideration. A lot of them were pointless and require fans to come up with extra headcanon to make them work. I don't think any author purposely go out there way to do something like that especially when leaving it alone requires less work and makes more sense for the story.
It's like DB Minus for example. Toriyama may have looked back at the manga and thought "Hmm I included Goku's father in a panel or two in the manga. I guess I should give him a backstory!" completely forgetting about the original Bardock TV special. Toriyama always seems like a humble guy in interviews and he was apparently inspired to include Bardock in the manga after watching the TV special so I doubt he would truly believe that his short mediocre chapter about Goku's parents was superior to the original if he remembered it. Ironically, he put bardock in the manga as he was a fan of the toei movie, and made him canon after toei made the film, not the other way around with tori bot making him and toei adapting him. Ah well. I hope the new movie is good, and who knows, maybe it will be good. At least the animation is good.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 2:27:07 GMT
@invaderjim It's the best I can come up with unless they can offer an explanation in the movie. I get the feeling that 90% of retcons/changes in DBS were unintentional and they're a result of either Toriyama or Toei forgetting how something originally was so they slap on a new idea without giving it much consideration. A lot of them were pointless and require fans to come up with extra headcanon to make them work. I don't think any author purposely go out there way to do something like that especially when leaving it alone requires less work and makes more sense for the story.
It's like DB Minus for example. Toriyama may have looked back at the manga and thought "Hmm I included Goku's father in a panel or two in the manga. I guess I should give him a backstory!" completely forgetting about the original Bardock TV special. Toriyama always seems like a humble guy in interviews and he was apparently inspired to include Bardock in the manga after watching the TV special so I doubt he would truly believe that his short mediocre chapter about Goku's parents was superior to the original if he remembered it. ![](https://i.imgflip.com/2jkd0r.jpg)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 5:28:47 GMT
@invaderjim Yeah that seems to be the case. I'm not sure what happened to Toriyama but it's been 20 years so who knows. He may have forgotten/changed so much that he's no longer in the same mindset as he was when he wrote the original. Maybe he spent that time reading new manga or watching new anime so he was subconsciously influenced by them when he looks back at his own work and now he's trying to portray the Saiyans as more misunderstood or something.
In this day and age of half-ass reboots and sequels, I think it's easier to view them as a separate continuity from the original work. Toriyama's free to change whatever he wants for his own author canon. I still prefer to look at the manga + Bardock TV special as the original story and everything else as existing in some other continuity. I guess that's the only way I can enjoy it without getting frustrated at any unnecessary changes.
I've always liked the concept of LSSJ having the potential to surpass the other forms and live up to its name. I'm looking forward to Broly kicking some ass and seeing what the new side to his personality is going to be. Hopefully they don't waste too much time on the Minus flashback portion of the movie.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 5:40:37 GMT
@skar I honestly think it came down to him only wanting to milk the franchise for all it's worth and with the moe anime culture booming atm it's easier to make money with "nice" saiyans than "mean" saiyans.
I also don't think he is capable of delivering on the near 30 years of hype generated by his fans and neither does he so instead of disappointing us AND not gaining a new audience he decided to disappoint us and get that new audience coz he knows full well that over 90% his old fans will STILL watch whatever is churned out.
I mean him retconning Bardock and the Saiyans couldn't have been an accident coz he had to get it cleared by his editors and I am pretty sure those cunts have to be on the ball to keep their job so..........sigh
My life is a lie.....
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Post by supergojita3 on Oct 7, 2018 5:44:29 GMT
@skar I honestly think it came down to him only wanting to milk the franchise for all it's worth and with the moe anime culture booming atm it's easier to make money with "nice" saiyans than "mean" saiyans. I also don't think he is capable of delivering on the near 30 years of hype generated by his fans and neither does he so instead of disappointing us AND not gaining a new audience he decided to disappoint us and get that new audience coz he knows full well that over 90% his old fans will STILL watch whatever is churned out. I mean him retconning Bardock and the Saiyans couldn't have been an accident coz he had to get it cleared by his editors and I am pretty sure those cunts have to be on the ball to keep their job so..........sigh My life is a lie.....I thought he had no editors now. He is the editor and keeps toyataro and toei in check. Quite the role reversal or so I thought. Does he have editors who keep him in line? I recall the cell saga was originally just a geezer and a fatso until 2 editorial changes got us cell. Imagine what the android saga would have been like without any editors to make the changes they did.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 7, 2018 6:03:15 GMT
@skar I honestly think it came down to him only wanting to milk the franchise for all it's worth and with the moe anime culture booming atm it's easier to make money with "nice" saiyans than "mean" saiyans. I also don't think he is capable of delivering on the near 30 years of hype generated by his fans and neither does he so instead of disappointing us AND not gaining a new audience he decided to disappoint us and get that new audience coz he knows full well that over 90% his old fans will STILL watch whatever is churned out. I mean him retconning Bardock and the Saiyans couldn't have been an accident coz he had to get it cleared by his editors and I am pretty sure those cunts have to be on the ball to keep their job so..........sigh My life is a lie.....I thought he had no editors now. He is the editor and keeps toyataro and toei in check. Quite the role reversal or so I thought. Does he have editors who keep him in line? I recall the cell saga was originally just a geezer and a fatso until 2 editorial changes got us cell. Imagine what the android saga would have been like without any editors to make the changes they did. It's interesting that a pretty good saga like this was mostly done at random. Despite this was unintended I like how the Androids were built up by Trunks as some shadow figures. Then we get this old man and a fat mime. Then we saw one beating the shit out of a sick Goku. But one of them gets quickly one shot'd by Vegeta who has just turned SSJ for the first time. WTF?! How can this be? Then we see the old man getting cornered and playing hit and run tactics. Then Trunks comes all confused seeing the beheaded Android 19. Was he surprised one of his Androids was so quickly killed? Then we learn the old man is indeed Dr Gero. WTF! Those are not the Androids. The chase continues and all goes as expected, but these dudes kill Gero and in turn release another Android (16) that was not even supposed to be! They break Vegeta's arm, they go search a sick Goku. But we're seeing all of them do not really seem that evil at all. They're just slightly thuggish guys doing stuff for the lolz, up to the point they use a Van, intimidate police and change clothes. Definitely not the kind of dudes who would turn a place into an apocalyptic wasteland. But then people are going missing leaving clothes behind, and we find yet another (broken, older) time machine! The rest is all history. There's an even bigger threat who is just supposed to use the previous threats as fodder for becoming "perfect". I think the point in the fun of this saga is clear now. Intentional or not this was very well played.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 6:21:43 GMT
@skar I honestly think it came down to him only wanting to milk the franchise for all it's worth and with the moe anime culture booming atm it's easier to make money with "nice" saiyans than "mean" saiyans. I also don't think he is capable of delivering on the near 30 years of hype generated by his fans and neither does he so instead of disappointing us AND not gaining a new audience he decided to disappoint us and get that new audience coz he knows full well that over 90% his old fans will STILL watch whatever is churned out. I mean him retconning Bardock and the Saiyans couldn't have been an accident coz he had to get it cleared by his editors and I am pretty sure those cunts have to be on the ball to keep their job so..........sigh My life is a lie.....I thought he had no editors now. He is the editor and keeps toyataro and toei in check. Quite the role reversal or so I thought. Does he have editors who keep him in line? I recall the cell saga was originally just a geezer and a fatso until 2 editorial changes got us cell. Imagine what the android saga would have been like without any editors to make the changes they did. He is as much an editor as I am an NBA superstar. He jots down some bullet points for his "vision" and they run with it. He obviously doesn't have that much say in what they do since the anime and manga are almost completely different, which is dumb.
I was talking about when he made DB-. He still had to submit it to Jump, via an editor. Whether or not the editor changed anything is the real question however I suspect they didn't as a sign of respect since iirc it was only meant to be a celebratory one shot, not the basis from which to rape the franchise inside out.
If anything the old school fans are his fucking editors these days.......
Remember when they had the Battle of Gods commercial with Gohan goin SSJ? Well that was passed by AT and everyone at TOEI so fuck knows wtf is happening over there. Either everyone is senile as fuck or they are too scared to speak against AT.
It's like he is the George Lucas of modern day TOEI and everything after minus is like the prequels.
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Post by Axalon on Oct 7, 2018 8:13:54 GMT
As for Frieza's appearance I'm hoping that shot in the trailer was just him destroying some OTHER planet. Or, y'know, just killing someone with a Supernova. For some reason. Surely they wouldn't not put Frieza in armor when he destroys Planet Vegeta? Hell, they even put him back in the same armor for RoF, and then had Frost wearing the same getup, so it's not like they haven't recently used the design or anything.
As for armorless Frieza without the shoulder plates, I'm thinking that's just a "younger" design, as others have already said, and the lack of shoulder plates is to give Frieza a younger appearance when he meets baby Vegeta or something.
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