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Post by TransHumanMarissa on Jul 19, 2018 4:41:51 GMT
You choosing not to believe the truth doesn't change the truth. Canon is what is created by the author and the stuff the author accepts as canon that he didn't create. Up until the end of Z, the manga and the anime content that happened in the manga is canon. Filler is non-canon and so are the movies up until BoG. Toriyama said that BoG was canon when it was being created and the same for RoF. When Super came around it retconned what happened in those 2 movies so what happened in the BoG & RoF arcs of Super replaced the movies as what is canon. As for the Super manga, it's its own separate canon from the anime.
The truth? Ok. But you should realize what actually is 'the Truth'. The truth is, whoever owns the Dragon ball franchise gets to determine what is and Is not Canon, and that is Toei. And you know what? They dont have an official stance. They simply work with whatever they want, as the Dragon ball Super heros thing shows, or as the retcons show. And you cant Deny their influence, since Toriyama Only Included Beerus and now Broly at the request of others. Toriyama Is simply an author, One they would not dare replace, but he does not own Dragon ball. Its a harsh truth, but it is about as 'True' as it gets. Besides, Like I said before. What is 'actual' canon then? The manga Dragon ball super, Or the anime Dragon ball super? Because both versions have Gregory. A DBZ anime only character. And both versions are worked from a rough draft made by Toriyama, but he doesn't actually direct either version, and the two versions contradict one another. if anything, Toriyama merely created the broad strokes of both Which, he also made the broad strokes of at least a few of the Filler arcs back in Dragon ball Z. Also, you said that Toriyama Specifically said BoG and RoF were Canon. So which is it? Is it things Toriyama considers canon which make the cut, Or is it the stuff he sort of directed? Because if Toriyama said it was canon, Then clearly it still is, his word is law, and I dont recall him saying super was canon at any point, right? Does that mean that Canon ends with RoF? Or maybe, Just maybe, The idea of one 'true' canon is total nonesense in a series which has never really adopted the idea of one 'true' canon. Edit: A correction. Shueisha I think, Owns the overall rights to Dragon Ball. However, Toei seems to have a large say in the Anime version? Or maybe even owns the Anime Version? I think My point still stands overall, but I thought it would be better to correct myself, as I literally double checked myself after I said this, and found my error.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 19, 2018 6:00:10 GMT
You choosing not to believe the truth doesn't change the truth. Canon is what is created by the author and the stuff the author accepts as canon that he didn't create. Up until the end of Z, the manga and the anime content that happened in the manga is canon. Filler is non-canon and so are the movies up until BoG. Toriyama said that BoG was canon when it was being created and the same for RoF. When Super came around it retconned what happened in those 2 movies so what happened in the BoG & RoF arcs of Super replaced the movies as what is canon. As for the Super manga, it's its own separate canon from the anime.
You're missing the point, those two movies were indeed canon for the time being, but we cannot use them in any analysis about the DBS series (except for "How different were the movies from the arcs" comparisons) about as much as we cannot use "Cooler's Revenge" in a DBZ series.
No I think you're misunderstanding my understanding of things. I completely get your point and I understand that those movies are no longer canon. My point is that since they were canon at one point that means that the Super movie is not the first to be canon. When it is released it will be the only one that is canon at that time up until the point if/when Super returns and retcons the movie, but it is not the first to be canon.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 19, 2018 19:40:17 GMT
I decided to alter Paragus' color palette a bit, better now?
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 19, 2018 20:12:31 GMT
I decided to alter Paragus' color palette a bit, better now? Much better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 22:35:46 GMT
Well this is a refreshing bit of news after the recent manga chapter turned out to be shit.
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Post by Xeno Black on Jul 19, 2018 22:36:29 GMT
I am glad I deleted my old post. Became a giant clusterf** As for the new trailer: I am sooooo happy that Frieza will be fighting against Broly. Perhaps my dream of seeing him getting the Toppo treatment will come into fruition. And similar to Battle of Gods, good action and tension appears to be abound. I just hope that Beerus goes back to his planet to not ruin the moment.
And from the look of things, Paragus appears to be controlling Broly and his actions. I am not a fan of this, but too much is shrouded in mystery before I can make a final judgement.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 19, 2018 22:56:57 GMT
The hype for this movie just got pushed to the maximum just like Broly's power level which is obviously the maximumest!!!
EDIT: Unless Toriyama has retconned the Saiyan Birthing Pods, it looks like Broly might be either genetically engineered or genetically modified after his birth. That might explain why Broly is so power that he could take a Super Saiyan on in base form and might even be insight into how Kale and Broly got their Berserker forms. Maybe both Kale and Broly were experimented on as babies in both of their respective Universes.
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 19, 2018 23:36:47 GMT
The animation looks clean and smooth, although I saw some glimpses of cgi during the fight that felt off (like the BoG movie). I didn’t expect Freeza to be part of this. It looks like the main three to challenge Broly will be Freeza, Vegeta, and Goku. It doesn’t look like it will be everyone against or all the Saiyans and Piccolo like in the old movies. Still not sure what to think about Broly development. If he is indeed genetically altered to explain his strength I would like and prefer it more than the old one. That would explain Broly’s craziness more without diminishing everyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 8:34:35 GMT
Can I just say, disregarding the outfit I love Paragus's design? He 100% looks like he would be a king in medieval times.
That pink dress is just not a fit. For a medieval King to don a fully purple outfit only further proves how mighty/rich/influential/grouse he truly is since purple ink was extraordinarily expensive and difficult to produce back then, hence why only recent national flags have purple on them.
When a country can't even afford purple ink you know that shit is overpriced.
Besides, since black is a shade that makes purple my favourite colour, meaning I would appreciate you not disrespecting the finest hue that our poorly evolved eyes can process lest a triggering of epic proportions were to take place.
edit: oh btw I feel I have to be honest with everyone here. That Broly trailer kinda got my blood flowin and I'm........I.....I'm...... BLUUUUUUURGGG! I'm looking forward to seeing this movie.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2018 21:54:42 GMT
I loved the trailer! The animation was beautiful and reminded me of the Freeza/Saiyan saga art style. This is going to be a good movie. For a medieval King to don a fully purple outfit only further proves how mighty/rich/influential/grouse he truly is since purple ink was extraordinarily expensive and difficult to produce back then, hence why only recent national flags have purple on them. Well there goes my theory! This is what I had in mind: Toei: Toriyama-san, how do you propose we change Broly? Toriyama: I was thinking to add a new side to his character. Toei: Are you going to change his appearance or make him smaller? Toriyama: Nah. Toei: That's good, Toriyama-san! Fans love it when he turns into the LSSJ hulking rage monster! Toriyama: Hmm..hulking rage monster...I've got it! I'll give him purple pants like the Hulk! Toei: Oh...that's quite the change, Toriyama-san.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 23, 2018 4:04:38 GMT
As long as they follow previous patterns then he will be stronger than Jiren. They haven't broken the pattern yet even with Beerus going into Golden Frieza if you take into account that the Beerus that Goku fought only used a small fraction of his maximum power. He can't call on it at will, but that doesn't mean that he can't be forced into accessing it again just like when he fought Jiren.
To be fair, didn't they break the trend when they had Gogeta appear in Fusion Reborn, which came before Wrath of the Dragon, whereas it took SSJ3 Goku's Dragon Fist to destroy the villain?
Janemba managed to take down SSJ3 Goku and he and Vegeta resorted to fusion to win.
Hirudegarn was powerful in the second form and only when he was tangible did Goku manage to land a hit on him and kill him.
Unless Goku's SSJ3 level was stronger in Wrath of the Dragon to the point he outclassed Gogeta, then in my mind, that means Hirudegarn had to be weaker than Janemba.
No doubt he [Broly] is stronger than Golden Frieza bc that was the last movie villain, but there is no official word on whether this trend will apply to Super's recent antagonist, aka Jiren bc it was the anime. Yes I know this movie will be related to the anime in some manner, but this is literally the first DBS movie (and by extension, DB Movie) that will be integrated into the Anime. All other movies were in "Parallel Worlds" or Alternate Universes that had no direct impact on the main story line.
[Also found something interesting, turns out Tapion's VA is the same one as English Dub Champa! No way anyone could've heard the similarities as opposed to Kai's Jeice and Dub Champa where the two were super similar in terms of voice compared to one another!]
as to janemba and hildegarn, the 2 might not have needed fusion after all. ssj3 goku was doing quite well vs janemba power wise, until janemba started using his powers of reality distorting as well as his strength. That gave him the edge over goku in the end. the battle was looking to be in gokus favor with the fight making janemba flinch and sparks surrounded him after a good thrashing by goku. janemba never took on ssj3 gotenks or mystic gohan, and those 2 are stronger than goku at the time. also, I would think dragon fist would kill janemba if it connected.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 29, 2018 3:44:14 GMT
A Behind the Scenes Update.
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Post by Xeno Black on Jul 30, 2018 1:32:27 GMT
I now think it is safe to say that a true generational gap has finally came to fruition. I've briefly touched on this in the "DBS vs DBM" thread, but all fans who came to this series in the 90's or earlier are officially a dying breed.
Yes I do mean that.
I am happy we are getting a new Broly film [fun fact: I am secretly a Brolytard fan], but now I fear that newer fans will mock us older ones for once believing at least the first Broly film could fit into the canon timeline. Or for enjoying Second Coming and Bio Broly. Same can be said for Dead Zone, Cooler's Revenge, Bojack's Unbound, Wrath of the Dragon, all of GT, etc. Besides the original manga, everything is truly secondary material that has no weight anymore. I kinda find this depressing honestly, like everything I once found in this series is no longer valid. I remember talking to a kai fan and he was genuinely surprised that at one time I'd prefer numbered saiyan forms (SSJ5, etc) over the new system (colors, emotions, etc). or that I once considered GT "canon" and thought Goku was quite smart, but just uneducated. Or me preferring Faulconer's music and English Dub over the Japanese. These days modern Dragon Ball is simply polarizing to me. Akira Toriyama no longer cares about its directional fate, bad fanfiction constantly squeezing through to become "canon", inconstant storytelling, redundant character tropes, useless transformations, and so much more. Classic DBZ was nothing like this, or at least minimized it to retain integrity. And sadly, some of the newer fans fail to see or understand me at times, which has me fearing about the Dragon Ball community as a whole over time [Note: not this forum, but most of the basic internet's fan bases].
While I do not necessarily miss the bad SSJ recoloring back in late 2000's or the more popular AF comics (with some being excellent), but nostalgia does make me wish I can go back to those simpler yet happier times. Nowadays Dragon Ball is actually a "weak" series, a complete 180 from its prime. To think that pirates finding a darn treasure called "One Piece" could actually surpass the original OG of anime worldwide in both popularity and sales speaks volumes. Dragon Ball is losing ground, a reality we must accept. And long as Toei in their "Dragon Room" and Toriyama continue at this pace along with us older fans slowly fading away, this will likely become a shit series. Real talk from a fan since 1999. Sorry for this miniature rant, but I needed to get this off of my chest after thinking about the new movie. I still think this movie will be good (despite my fears that Broly is still being controlled), but over time my faith in this series will become non-existent. If this movie flops (which is actually my worst nightmare), Dragon Ball is finished. Any continuation of Super, Heroes, Xenoverse, and whatever else would be pointless since the content creators can only rehash material without being able to make any true original content. ToP and Golden Frieza arcs are prime examples of poor original storytelling. How any fan can say those two are better than the Namek or Androids sagas is beyond me. But I'll stop here to not make this into a giant hate fest than what it already is. Just heartbroken words sprung from a fan whose heart is getting less and less into this gig.
Thanks for listening.
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Post by VoidSlayer on Jul 30, 2018 9:28:33 GMT
As some of you may know i'm not a huge fan of any of the various versions/knockoffs of Broly.
My one wish is he is represented well, as in we get to know his character is deeper then "KARKAROTTTT!!" and he's more then just a single minded, near invincible tank. A description of his powers and how he ticks, as well as a strong back story about how he originated and suddenly appeared would be almost too much to hope for.
But a DB fan can dream can't he?
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 30, 2018 21:24:08 GMT
I watched Youtuber video on the subject that sounded very likely to happen that killed my hopes of the new Broly being any different from the classic and will only just get a bigger power boost, which if anything validates the Broly fans of him being the strongest or most powerful in the end. The idea of a genetically altered Broly is probably not going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 3:06:46 GMT
What's this shit I hear about Broly having 5 fucking forms in this upcoming motion picture movie film?
edit: @thatguy - I saw a thumbnail from geekdom sayin he has 5 forms and I was so triggered that my evens just couldn't.
edit2: Xeno Black - While I don't disagree with your sentiments the DB fanbase has been a splintered mess the entire time thanks to manga elitists looking down on the anime fans and said anime fans attacking each other as they rabidly defend their version of choice, not to mention the massive divide caused by GT, only now it's just slightly messier. Kinda funny (ironic mayhaps?) that DB/GT fans are uniting against the cancerous scourge that is the nufanz.
As for OP beating out DB that is only natural since it basically replaced DB after the anime's run since there was no comparable alternative for shounen fans to sink their teeth into, that said, OP has NEVER made Crunchy Roll shit itself once, much less on a weekly basis and I doon't see OP taking over social media like DBS has.
But I have to recognise OP's sales numbers and yes, it is killin it but while DB is losin it's way in the eyes of 0ldfanz/purists the hype surrounding it these days can not be ignored. Also, don't worry about the games aspect of it for they will always take the newer stuff into account.
I understand your dismay but sadly, it was inevitable.
Fuck I had something else to add but I got distracted midpost cause a housemate distracted me. FUCK!! Pretty sure it was quality too......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 4:08:27 GMT
(Ignore everything past 1:24... Couldn't find a video that JUST included this section......)Thanks for reminding of the time in my life when my love for DB was at its peak. Arsehole.......
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 4, 2018 4:43:41 GMT
@thatguy, I didn't know you could read Japanese. That's so awesome.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 4, 2018 5:23:37 GMT
@thatguy , I didn't know you could read Japanese. That's so awesome. Lol I wish. I use the Google Translate app from my phone. It's surprisingly accurate (Like, REALLY accurate, still can't believe it. Gets the translation right 98% of the time, the other 2% isn't far off) but sometimes it can be tricky which is what took me a while.
There's a Google Translate app that can identify text in pictures and then translate it? I didn't know that.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 5, 2018 4:06:15 GMT
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