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Post by Overridden With Joy Yuya on Jul 15, 2018 18:27:43 GMT
Im not fully sure how I feel about this movie. It might be nice to see Tori's take on all this, but much like everyone else, I think I was.. dumbstruck by the announcement. I was pretty exited by the announcement,mostly because of ulterior motives,but I think it's still to early too judge it either way at least until we get a full plot synopsys. As far as I know (Might be late) the only thing confirmed is that his voice-actor is on the list. Nothing else, he could even voice a different character... I find it very unlikely for then to bring back one of the original VAs of M8 to voice another character. Im curious about the role this hypothetical nu-paragus would play in the movie tho.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 15, 2018 18:35:07 GMT
Im not fully sure how I feel about this movie. It might be nice to see Tori's take on all this, but much like everyone else, I think I was.. dumbstruck by the announcement. I was pretty exited by the announcement,mostly because of ulterior motives,but I think it's still to early too judge it either way at least until we get a full plot synopsys. As far as I know (Might be late) the only thing confirmed is that his voice-actor is on the list. Nothing else, he could even voice a different character... I find it very unlikely for then to bring back one of the original VAs of M8 to voice another character. Im curious about the role this hypothetical nu-paragus would play in the movie tho. Since it's Broly there's a few things to consider: -As long as he's a green, violent, unstoppable juggernaut, the "MAXIMUM" factor will be present on him. -It can't be worse than a Bio Broly or screaming KAKAROOOOOOOD like a retard (which ironically is also one of the things he's most known for). Even DBM took this literally when he fought Vegetto. -His lore was good (a real legendary saiyan, tragic history, flashbacks, tying into Freeza and other saiyans) but the actual things explaining them were stupid as fuck (Goku crying, mind control, etc..) -The new movie will include Saiyan history flashbacks and lots of lore, so in this aspect they're doing it right.
At best we'll have one of the best DB movies (like the first Bardock special) and at worst we'll get another Broly movie like the previous 3, but with SSJBlue and stuff. I just hope they don't make him too wimplike like U6 Saiyans.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 15, 2018 18:46:09 GMT
Im not fully sure how I feel about this movie. It might be nice to see Tori's take on all this, but much like everyone else, I think I was.. dumbstruck by the announcement. freeza was a dumb fuck in super, he didn't test his golden form and lost for the same reason he lost in dbz. Lost ki and stamina, and then had to use a laser beam from his co-worker to down goku from behind. He got smarter later by controlling his golden form in hell...some how. I just wish his golden form were a god form of his own, it diminishes the awesomeness of god forms and god ki for a mere mortal to surpass a god ki user who isn't a kaioshin or god of creation. speaking of which, do kaioshin have a different ki than say beerus or god goku? They could sense kaioshin, but not beerus or wiss or even ssjb goku unless they themselves were gods. In any case, here's hoping the new brolly is good! Frieza learned to control his golden form with visualization Training. Basically, Imagine succeeding at something hard enough, and it helps train your muscle memory to -actually- succeed. Surprisingly, a real martial arts technique. (and one that atleast one study has apparently found semi-effective, not that I have links, only word of mouth, so take that with a grain of salt.) I dont actually put -any- stock in god ki being special, and never really have. As I said in a different thread, I think God ki is basically just toriyama explaining a trait he always had gods have, Probably even Kami/Dende.(I mean, it would make sense. They are literal gods, even if their actual power is far below Goku and gang.) As far as I know, God ki doesnt really prevent you from being sensed, so much as prevent your ki's depth/amount from being sensed.. exactly like what happened in the buu saga, when Piccolo tried to sense the Kaioshin. Plus, If we look further back, Im pretty sure no one has properly sensed out any of the gods. (Goku using IT to King kai might be the exception.. but King kai is also one of the characters explicitly able to sense the movements of Beerus, implying he does have god ki, and in theory Goku could have been sensing the ki of one of the other inhabitants of the planet.) I'm talking fnf freeza. and that arc in super. It was stupid to just go all gung ho with a new form, as he lost that time the same way he lost last time, he didn't have his power under control and lost stamina. Thats a dumb fuck move right there. controlling it in hell with image training is smart, but he should have fucking done that when he was alive the first time.
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Post by TransHumanMarissa on Jul 15, 2018 19:26:05 GMT
I'm talking fnf freeza. and that arc in super. It was stupid to just go all gung ho with a new form, as he lost that time the same way he lost last time, he didn't have his power under control and lost stamina. Thats a dumb fuck move right there. controlling it in hell with image training is smart, but he should have fucking done that when he was alive the first time. I should have been more specific, I was responding to you saying he learned to control his golden form in hell, which seemed to confuse you to some degree. (what with how you put 'somehow' Afterwards.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 7:58:49 GMT
Jesus wept. I guess it was only a matter of time that power levels would dominate this thread. This thread was supposed to provide me with teh lulz, not a migraine....
edit: aaand upon reading the rest of the newer posts I realise I was a tad premature, story of my life.... What a wonderful contribution to this thread I have graciously provided you all. No I won't delete it.
edit2: I just noticed I mixed this thread together with the game promo series thread.... Fuck I'm retarded.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 17, 2018 8:13:11 GMT
I'm talking fnf freeza. and that arc in super. It was stupid to just go all gung ho with a new form, as he lost that time the same way he lost last time, he didn't have his power under control and lost stamina. Thats a dumb fuck move right there. controlling it in hell with image training is smart, but he should have fucking done that when he was alive the first time. I should have been more specific, I was responding to you saying he learned to control his golden form in hell, which seemed to confuse you to some degree. (what with how you put 'somehow' Afterwards.) ok. misunderstanding on my part. Cheerio.
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Post by Azoth on Jul 17, 2018 22:57:20 GMT
I don't think MUI is a form Goku can just call on at will yet (remember, he couldn't whip it out against Vegeta at the end of Super), so I doubt Broly will be as strong/stronger than Jiren. I'm betting somewhere between Merged Zamasu and Jiren (before UI happened).
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 18, 2018 3:45:36 GMT
I don't think MUI is a form Goku can just call on at will yet (remember, he couldn't whip it out against Vegeta at the end of Super), so I doubt Broly will be as strong/stronger than Jiren. I'm betting somewhere between Merged Zamasu and Jiren (before UI happened).
As long as they follow previous patterns then he will be stronger than Jiren. They haven't broken the pattern yet even with Beerus going into Golden Frieza if you take into account that the Beerus that Goku fought only used a small fraction of his maximum power. He can't call on it at will, but that doesn't mean that he can't be forced into accessing it again just like when he fought Jiren.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Jul 18, 2018 5:18:36 GMT
I don't think MUI is a form Goku can just call on at will yet (remember, he couldn't whip it out against Vegeta at the end of Super), so I doubt Broly will be as strong/stronger than Jiren. I'm betting somewhere between Merged Zamasu and Jiren (before UI happened).
As long as they follow previous patterns then he will be stronger than Jiren. They haven't broken the pattern yet even with Beerus going into Golden Frieza if you take into account that the Beerus that Goku fought only used a small fraction of his maximum power. He can't call on it at will, but that doesn't mean that he can't be forced into accessing it again just like when he fought Jiren.
To be fair, didn't they break the trend when they had Gogeta appear in Fusion Reborn, which came before Wrath of the Dragon, whereas it took SSJ3 Goku's Dragon Fist to destroy the villain?
Janemba managed to take down SSJ3 Goku and he and Vegeta resorted to fusion to win.
Hirudegarn was powerful in the second form and only when he was tangible did Goku manage to land a hit on him and kill him.
Unless Goku's SSJ3 level was stronger in Wrath of the Dragon to the point he outclassed Gogeta, then in my mind, that means Hirudegarn had to be weaker than Janemba.
No doubt he [Broly] is stronger than Golden Frieza bc that was the last movie villain, but there is no official word on whether this trend will apply to Super's recent antagonist, aka Jiren bc it was the anime. Yes I know this movie will be related to the anime in some manner, but this is literally the first DBS movie (and by extension, DB Movie) that will be integrated into the Anime. All other movies were in "Parallel Worlds" or Alternate Universes that had no direct impact on the main story line.
[Also found something interesting, turns out Tapion's VA is the same one as English Dub Champa! No way anyone could've heard the similarities as opposed to Kai's Jeice and Dub Champa where the two were super similar in terms of voice compared to one another!]
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 18, 2018 17:19:57 GMT
As long as they follow previous patterns then he will be stronger than Jiren. They haven't broken the pattern yet even with Beerus going into Golden Frieza if you take into account that the Beerus that Goku fought only used a small fraction of his maximum power. He can't call on it at will, but that doesn't mean that he can't be forced into accessing it again just like when he fought Jiren.
To be fair, didn't they break the trend when they had Gogeta appear in Fusion Reborn, which came before Wrath of the Dragon, whereas it took SSJ3 Goku's Dragon Fist to destroy the villain?
Janemba managed to take down SSJ3 Goku and he and Vegeta resorted to fusion to win.
Hirudegarn was powerful in the second form and only when he was tangible did Goku manage to land a hit on him and kill him.
Unless Goku's SSJ3 level was stronger in Wrath of the Dragon to the point he outclassed Gogeta, then in my mind, that means Hirudegarn had to be weaker than Janemba.
No doubt he [Broly] is stronger than Golden Frieza bc that was the last movie villain, but there is no official word on whether this trend will apply to Super's recent antagonist, aka Jiren bc it was the anime. Yes I know this movie will be related to the anime in some manner, but this is literally the first DBS movie (and by extension, DB Movie) that will be integrated into the Anime. All other movies were in "Parallel Worlds" or Alternate Universes that had no direct impact on the main story line.
[Also found something interesting, turns out Tapion's VA is the same one as English Dub Champa! No way anyone could've heard the similarities as opposed to Kai's Jeice and Dub Champa where the two were super similar in terms of voice compared to one another!]
Come on you should know that non-canon content doesn't count. Also you're wrong about it being the first canon DB movie. BoG and Resurrection F were canon prior to them being retconned by Super.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Jul 18, 2018 18:13:56 GMT
To be fair, didn't they break the trend when they had Gogeta appear in Fusion Reborn, which came before Wrath of the Dragon, whereas it took SSJ3 Goku's Dragon Fist to destroy the villain?
Janemba managed to take down SSJ3 Goku and he and Vegeta resorted to fusion to win.
Hirudegarn was powerful in the second form and only when he was tangible did Goku manage to land a hit on him and kill him.
Unless Goku's SSJ3 level was stronger in Wrath of the Dragon to the point he outclassed Gogeta, then in my mind, that means Hirudegarn had to be weaker than Janemba.
No doubt he [Broly] is stronger than Golden Frieza bc that was the last movie villain, but there is no official word on whether this trend will apply to Super's recent antagonist, aka Jiren bc it was the anime. Yes I know this movie will be related to the anime in some manner, but this is literally the first DBS movie (and by extension, DB Movie) that will be integrated into the Anime. All other movies were in "Parallel Worlds" or Alternate Universes that had no direct impact on the main story line.
[Also found something interesting, turns out Tapion's VA is the same one as English Dub Champa! No way anyone could've heard the similarities as opposed to Kai's Jeice and Dub Champa where the two were super similar in terms of voice compared to one another!]
Come on you should know that non-canon content doesn't count. Also you're wrong about it being the first canon DB movie. BoG and Resurrection F were canon prior to them being retconned by Super.
I thought the discussion was about the DB movie villains trend where the next new villain was stronger than the last movie villain. We are talking about an upcoming movie, aren't we?
Bold: I mean... I guess?
Okay, so they were canon but then a new series took over and changed a couple of events. (4 years vs 6 months notably.) So now we have to discuss them in terms of theatrical purposes, not really "power discussions" or "character progression." (Ex: Beerus' 70% can't be used in the Super series discussion and his nature of "Easy Fun-going vs Malicious with a hint of humor" exists as a major difference between the two mediums.)
Point is that BoG and RoF Movies doesn't count in terms of discussing "cAnOn" events and that this Broly movie is the first where it directly counts into the anime series, unless this means we get a brand new series that retcons these events as well in which case we have to "disregard" this new Broly movie as well.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 18, 2018 18:20:59 GMT
Come on you should know that non-canon content doesn't count. Also you're wrong about it being the first canon DB movie. BoG and Resurrection F were canon prior to them being retconned by Super.
I thought the discussion was about the DB movie villains trend where the next new villain was stronger than the last movie villain. We are talking about an upcoming movie, aren't we?
Bold: I mean... I guess?
Okay, so they were canon but then a new series took over and changed a couple of events. (4 years vs 6 months notably.) So now we have to discuss them in terms of theatrical purposes, not really "power discussions" or "character progression." (Ex: Beerus' 70% can't be used in the Super series discussion and his nature of "Easy Fun-going vs Malicious with a hint of humor" exists as a major difference between the two mediums.)
Point is that BoG and RoF Movies doesn't count in terms of discussing "cAnOn" events and that this Broly movie is the first where it directly counts into the anime series, unless this means we get a brand new series that retcons these events as well in which case we have to "disregard" this new Broly movie as well.
No we're talking about the next villain in the line-up being stronger than the previous one in context of what's canon. That's why I had said, "As long as they follow previous patterns then he will be stronger than Jiren." Since when was Jiren a movie villain.
I was just pointing out that technically it isn't the first movie to be canon in regards to BoG and RoF. That was my point.
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 18, 2018 18:57:58 GMT
The pattern of next villain/antagonist technically breaks with Beerus still. He is still much stronger than later antagonists still. Perhaps Broly could be weaker than Jiren or or it will just sidestep the whole issue like it does with Beerus.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 18, 2018 19:04:07 GMT
The pattern of next villain/antagonist technically breaks with Beerus still. He is still much stronger than later antagonists still. Perhaps Broly could be weaker than Jiren or or it will just sidestep the whole issue like it does with Beerus.
Yes and no. When you only use the held back power then Golden Frieza was stronger than Beerus when he was holding back in his fight against Goku.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 18, 2018 19:05:47 GMT
Paragus design and some design images for Broly too. It looks like Paragus might be controlling Broly in the beginning or at least restricting his power by the look of things.
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Post by Xeno Black on Jul 18, 2018 21:23:24 GMT
I really like Paragus new design. Even with the girly colors he still looks cool.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 18, 2018 22:07:19 GMT
I really like Paragus new design. Even with the girly colors he still looks cool.
I know, right? Who knew someone could still look so manly while wearing a dress/skirt (not sure which that would be considered).
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Post by TransHumanMarissa on Jul 19, 2018 3:39:31 GMT
I -firmly- believe There is no Canon. Not officially. Instead, you have to divide up continuities by their focus. For example, you could have Manga Continuity, Or Anime Continuity. Or a 'Toriyama's work' Continuity. Because otherwise, What even -counts- as Canon? If its official Toei Content, then the dbz Anime and all its filler is Canon (and even Gt!). If its Toriyama's stories, then Both versions of super (Manga and anime) are somehow simultaneously semi-canon.. as are the last few dbz movies (BoG, RoF), meaning we have not one, but 3 'canons'. I guess we could count the ongoing stories, which at the very least excludes RoF and BoG as 'canon', but still leaves 2.
..Also, Im not convinced that androids 19 and 20 were stronger then mecha-frieza. But even if they were, Cell was certainly not stronger then 17 and 18, Until later after he absorbed some people. Dabura also wasn't stronger then Cell. (or if he was, it was not that much.) while all the rest of Babadi's henchmen, And Babadi himself, were clearly weaker then Cell. And when we get into the Buus, its debatable how Kid buu Stacked up to the Super buu Absorptions, so I dont really buy the idea that each villian must me stronger then the one previous.
Paragus' Design however,Im not a fan of. Its so gaudy! I do think he rocks his age though. I preferred the original overall, but I suppose I could get used to this, depending. Im getting more and more hype for this movie, the more I learn, but I think thats in part the shock of its existence at all finally wearing off.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 19, 2018 3:50:14 GMT
I -firmly- believe There is no Canon. Not officially. Instead, you have to divide up continuities by their focus. For example, you could have Manga Continuity, Or Anime Continuity. Or a 'Toriyama's work' Continuity. Because otherwise, What even -counts- as Canon? If its official Toei Content, then the dbz Anime and all its filler is Canon (and even Gt!). If its Toriyama's stories, then Both versions of super (Manga and anime) are somehow simultaneously semi-canon.. as are the last few dbz movies (BoG, RoF), meaning we have not one, but 3 'canons'. I guess we could count the ongoing stories, which at the very least excludes RoF and BoG as 'canon', but still leaves 2.
You choosing not to believe the truth doesn't change the truth. Canon is what is created by the author and the stuff the author accepts as canon that he didn't create. Up until the end of Z, the manga and the anime content that happened in the manga is canon. Filler is non-canon and so are the movies up until BoG. Toriyama said that BoG was canon when it was being created and the same for RoF. When Super came around it retconned what happened in those 2 movies so what happened in the BoG & RoF arcs of Super replaced the movies as what is canon. As for the Super manga, it's its own separate canon from the anime.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Jul 19, 2018 4:21:25 GMT
I -firmly- believe There is no Canon. Not officially. Instead, you have to divide up continuities by their focus. For example, you could have Manga Continuity, Or Anime Continuity. Or a 'Toriyama's work' Continuity. Because otherwise, What even -counts- as Canon? If its official Toei Content, then the dbz Anime and all its filler is Canon (and even Gt!). If its Toriyama's stories, then Both versions of super (Manga and anime) are somehow simultaneously semi-canon.. as are the last few dbz movies (BoG, RoF), meaning we have not one, but 3 'canons'. I guess we could count the ongoing stories, which at the very least excludes RoF and BoG as 'canon', but still leaves 2.
You choosing not to believe the truth doesn't change the truth. Canon is what is created by the author and the stuff the author accepts as canon that he didn't create. Up until the end of Z, the manga and the anime content that happened in the manga is canon. Filler is non-canon and so are the movies up until BoG. Toriyama said that BoG was canon when it was being created and the same for RoF. When Super came around it retconned what happened in those 2 movies so what happened in the BoG & RoF arcs of Super replaced the movies as what is canon. As for the Super manga, it's its own separate canon from the anime.
You're missing the point, those two movies were indeed canon for the time being, but we cannot use them in any analysis about the DBS series (except for "How different were the movies from the arcs" comparisons) about as much as we cannot use "Cooler's Revenge" in a DBZ series.
This DBS: Broly movie on the other hand is directly tied into the DBS storyline (both Anime and Manga? No idea, given the debate about SSJ Bluer). For the foreseeable future, it will not be altered in favor of making a new tv series nor does it currently have any plans to be retconned like the other two movies.
I guess you wish to call it the "third canon" movie but this movie will play a vital role in Super's series, one that will be here to stay and have a lasting effect on Super as a whole. Hopefully it isn't like the BoG and RoF movies where they made an antagonist brag about fighting at 70% but later was somewhat bored at seeing a higher level, nor they make the same mistake in regards to Goku getting hit by the laser in the Blue form (ignoring "let guard down" memes for a second). This new Broly movie will have a lasting impact on the history of the Saiyans, Frieza's PTO, and possibly Beerus (if Broly was the true Super Saiyan God of Legends).
In regards to the movie trend, Takao Koyama, one of the screenwriters for a majority of the DBZ movies, originally had the intent of making each DBZ Movie Villain stronger than the last one that Goku fought. (Currently debatable about Bojack since he was actually Gohan's fight and also Hirudegarn and Janemba). I brought up the two movies (before BoG) as an attempt to say there's no guarantee this DBS:Broly antagonist will necessarily follow the "stronger than the last" trend and may prove to be another outlier. For sure he would be stronger than Golden Frieza bc it follows the Movie trend, however in regards to Fused Zamasu or Jiren, there is no guarantee.
In terms of the Anime's Villain trend, this will depend on if his power exceeds that of MUI Goku (seriously, how does instincts give someone more power?) when he fought Jiren. If it doesn't, then he HAS to be weaker than Jiren but at least Stronger than Fused Zamasu. If he's weaker than Fused Zamasu, even SSJ Bluer Vegeta could handle him. So yeah, going back to Azoth's idea, unless we finally have an explanation for Ultra Instincts rather than an old "foreshadow" from RoF, or if Toriyama decides to keep UI as "a power Goku accidentally tapped into and doesn't know how to do it again" then Broly HAS to be weaker than Jiren, or we're gonna get another asspull in defeating Broly (if there's no MUI returning)... unless Broly becomes friends with the Z warriors, then he doesn't have to defeat Broly and he can be as strong as however the fuck he wants to be. Because his power. IS. MAXIMUMEST!!!
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