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Post by Son Pan on Oct 19, 2024 3:30:56 GMT
Today's page. The range of emotions Bra goes through this page is what I am talking about. She is mad at Buu and trying to kill him, then she realizes she hit her dad and brother in the attack as well. We see her shock, which becomes horror as Bra realizes she lost control again, and then she loses the form. This is how you write this type of character. She is flawed, but not heartless. She clearly loves her family, instantly regrets her actions, and here Bra's mistake is not only acknowledged by her and the story. If Bra had been written like this for the entire comic, I think she might be one of the most popular DBM characters.
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Post by عمار on Oct 19, 2024 23:18:58 GMT
Friday's page.
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Post by godjacob on Oct 20, 2024 0:35:11 GMT
Feels nice to see Zen Buu fail something, given how his story goes from here as DBM's biggest villain sue, it is a sight I miss.
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Post by jbame on Oct 20, 2024 11:43:45 GMT
Feels nice to see Zen Buu fail something, given how his story goes from here as DBM's biggest villain sue, it is a sight I miss. It was a simpler era, one where The Big 3 weren't able to do as they pleased because they kept each other in check. One where Zen Buu's powers were simple plot tools and intelligence and not omnipotence. One where Buu's biggest strength was only his regeneration.
Later on this rivalry/mutual counter with Vegito will prove to be extremely misleading, as Vegito as a SSJ2 and even SSJ3, fighting with the entire multiverse at his side, will not stand a chance against a Zen Buu who is massively holding back.
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Post by عمار on Oct 20, 2024 18:49:28 GMT
Back to the arena.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 20, 2024 19:57:35 GMT
Feels nice to see Zen Buu fail something, given how his story goes from here as DBM's biggest villain sue, it is a sight I miss. It was a simpler era, one where The Big 3 weren't able to do as they pleased because they kept each other in check. One where Zen Buu's powers were simple plot tools and intelligence and not omnipotence. One where Buu's biggest strength was only his regeneration.
Later on this rivalry/mutual counter with Vegito will prove to be extremely misleading, as Vegito as a SSJ2 and even SSJ3, fighting with the entire multiverse at his side, will not stand a chance against a Zen Buu who is massively holding back. The sad part is U4 Buu is the only one who really broke the balance. Vegetto had hard limits put on him, with his limited time at SS3 (meaning his full power is so great he can barely use it) and the insane hunger that requires him to need to consume senzu beans to maintain his body. Gast's actual ki was revealed to be closer to high SS3 level fighter to compensate for his high skill level in magic. The problem with U4 Buu is when you give him both ki that can rival SS2 Vegetto and magic that can work on a universal scale like the Dragon Balls with no cost then the character is just too broken to work in universe. Buu is essentially a reality warper with no defined limits. There needs to be a cost to keep him balanced. Since SS3 weakness was exaggerated to give to give Vegetto harder limits to balance him out then I think Buu's limit should have been giving him a cool off time where he cannot use magic the stronger the spell he uses. What that means is if Buu revives everyone at the tournament, it means he cannot use his magic for long period of time. That means he cannot regenerate, cannot split himself up, control parts of his bodies, transfer his consciousness to them, or absorb anyone. Buu wants to make a black hole, well that is complex magic and needs 5 minutes to recharge his magic to use again. Buu stays damn strong but giving him a cost for strongest spells and magic we see him use balances him out. Imagine in an alternate take on Buu vs Multiverse that after Buu used high level spells to seal off Gast that he couldn't use his magic for 5 minutes. The story shifts to trying to defeat Buu in those 5 minutes, before he his magic returns. It forces Buu to have to be clever to survive his enemies without regeneration or endless clones he can create from his body. Any damage he takes actually cost him stamina and ki. Even if he does manage to kill Vegetto and Bra we could have had it to where they damaged him enough for a joint group attack is enough to kill Buu right before his magic returns or he gets sealed by Mafuba from U9 Tien.
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Post by jbame on Oct 21, 2024 12:34:44 GMT
It was a simpler era, one where The Big 3 weren't able to do as they pleased because they kept each other in check. One where Zen Buu's powers were simple plot tools and intelligence and not omnipotence. One where Buu's biggest strength was only his regeneration.
Later on this rivalry/mutual counter with Vegito will prove to be extremely misleading, as Vegito as a SSJ2 and even SSJ3, fighting with the entire multiverse at his side, will not stand a chance against a Zen Buu who is massively holding back. Since SS3 weakness was exaggerated to give to give Vegetto harder limits to balance him out then I think Buu's limit should have been giving him a cool off time where he cannot use magic the stronger the spell he uses. What that means is if Buu revives everyone at the tournament, it means he cannot use his magic for long period of time. That means he cannot regenerate, cannot split himself up, control parts of his bodies, transfer his consciousness to them, or absorb anyone. Buu wants to make a black hole, well that is complex magic and needs 5 minutes to recharge his magic to use again. Buu stays damn strong but giving him a cost for strongest spells and magic we see him use balances him out. Imagine in an alternate take on Buu vs Multiverse that after Buu used high level spells to seal off Gast that he couldn't use his magic for 5 minutes. The story shifts to trying to defeat Buu in those 5 minutes, before he his magic returns. It forces Buu to have to be clever to survive his enemies without regeneration or endless clones he can create from his body. Any damage he takes actually cost him stamina and ki. Even if he does manage to kill Vegetto and Bra we could have had it to where they damaged him enough for a joint group attack is enough to kill Buu right before his magic returns or he gets sealed by Mafuba from U9 Tien. he should never have had hax instawin magic to begin with when any character with Majin Buu regeneration is unbeatable by 90% of the cast and he has SS2 vegito power level to back it up his "Magic" at the beginning of the comic was a simple plot device that let him fuck with electronics or grant quick powerups overnight, what made him a compelling character was precisely the Buu powers used intelligently: he could split up and hide body chunks anywhere he wanted, this gave him eyes over the entire arena, let him pop in and out anywhere he wanted, and even threaten to absorb everyone at once but now he is a walking Super Shenron (yes, super, he is directly stated to be above the dragon balls) that is implied to be able to kill vegito the exact same way he killed gast if not more easily and had to be asspulled out of the tournament because there is no logical way to kill him with the 10000 overpowered abilities he had
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Post by godjacob on Oct 21, 2024 17:35:24 GMT
Zen Buu is all the worst tropes of the DB Fan Villain I already was "eh" on him at the start but he just gets worse and worse as the story goes on. Character flaws? Nah he is above that kind of thing, limitations? He's not cool if he isn't the strongest and most broken.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 23, 2024 2:08:01 GMT
For me he was fine until it was revealed that he could revive everyone. That was when we learned Buu could wrap reality on the scale that the Dragon Balls can. Toriyama realized how broken that was, so made some limits by the Saiyan arc, to prevent the heroes from just wishing away every threat. If Buu is to be given that level of magic, then he also needed hard limits to prevent him from causally using it. For me the bigger the power the bigger the cost or restriction needs to be.
If Vegetto is given limits to balance him out, then Buu should have gotten the same treatment. Since, they didn't do that with Buu, as mentioned he had to be written out of the story quickly, in order to have a plot at all. As mentioned, the execution left much to be desired. The concept of an enlightened Super Buu who won and went on to absorb more beings with unique skills or aspects to him is a good concept. I don't even begrudge giving him more magic or wider arrange of spells, since he is traveling through the universe. Don't make Buu too broken.
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Post by EvilXoda on Oct 23, 2024 19:35:38 GMT
Woops. Nothing is here. IGNORE ME!
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Post by عمار on Oct 23, 2024 22:41:54 GMT
I guess that gives potential to Gast being able to mimic Bra's teleportation from the prior battle if he can mimic her swap move. Also I thought Janemba could heal himself with his teleport? Wonder why he hasn't done it yet... EvilXoda Wrong thread, my friend. xD
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Post by عمار on Oct 23, 2024 22:44:41 GMT
Wednesday's page. To answer Vegetto's question: Yes, Zen Buu wanted to absorb Broly. He just wasn't that serious about it.
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Post by EvilXoda on Oct 24, 2024 2:21:39 GMT
I guess that gives potential to Gast being able to mimic Bra's teleportation from the prior battle if he can mimic her swap move. Also I thought Janemba could heal himself with his teleport? Wonder why he hasn't done it yet... EvilXoda Wrong thread, my friend. xD That was embarrassing. Thanks for the tipoff. Well since I'm posting here anyway, what is the "Big 3"? Buu, Vegettto, and....Gast? Or maybe Broly? Or XXI? Honestly I do like the idea of there being a nebulous 3 fighters in the tourney that you couldn't be sure if they would win or lose if they meet up. But that went out the window IMO when it basically had Vegetto lose, at this point Vegetto was basically looking like the Saitama of the tournament after the Broly match, nobody could win with him in the ranks. Still think his fight with Buu at the end should've been more focused between the two than everyone else (even if there were some funny scenes. Him playing cards with the mini Cell jrs was adorable.)
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Post by jbame on Oct 25, 2024 23:04:34 GMT
That was embarrassing. Thanks for the tipoff. Well since I'm posting here anyway, what is the "Big 3"? Buu, Vegettto, and....Gast? Or maybe Broly? Or XXI? Buu, Vegito and Gast, 3 characters that were constantly shown to be far above the rest. This created a very interesting dynamic where those three were feared or respected by everyone else in the Tournament, yet in case any of them went rogue, the other 2 would stop him. It made you want to see how the fights between them would go- And in a classic example of the Worf Effect trope, these three were matched up against XXI to show off how dangerous he could be. This dynamic was lost later as the comic went on and Gast was shown to be only a SSJ3 level fighter with hax magic, and Buu was outright shown to be the strongest character in the series, at least until we see what XXI is hiding.
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Post by عمار on Oct 27, 2024 0:37:58 GMT
Friday's page.
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Post by عمار on Oct 27, 2024 19:36:48 GMT
This is shows that Yamcha (and the human in general) has potential if Toriyama cared about him. And here's in explanation from Salagir about the Future Androids being weaker than their present counter part:
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Post by Rudeman on Oct 27, 2024 23:37:18 GMT
Tien, Chaozu, Jamcha and Piccollo were on North Kaios planet. Tori could easily give humans Kaioken - they could still be relevant...
I get why Piccollo and Cell couldn't use Kaioken, even Salagir didn't go that route. Fortunately we have U9 to make our dreams come true!
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 28, 2024 14:39:54 GMT
Kaioken should have become the humans answer to Super Saiyan. Goiu discarding it for Super Saiyan, since it is superior to Kaioken. In the manga he was never going to use it again. Letting it become the humans signature move to at least allow them to keep pace with the aliens would have been good. That is why Universe 9 is one of my favorite universes in DBM. It shows humans didn’t need to be cast aside.
It sucks fans don’t like them enough to draw U9 stories. The concept of humans finding ways to overcome the threats that Goku and the Saiyans dealt with is a cool concept. It is even cooler that DBM did it without making the humans go the Saiyan route of getting a crap ton of transformations and zenkai power boosts. Yamecha is a cyborg, but other than that we see skill and teamwork became their bread and butter and allowed them to win against stronger foes. That is cool.
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Post by godjacob on Oct 28, 2024 21:12:34 GMT
This is shows that Yamcha (and the human in general) has potential if Toriyama cared about him. And here's in explanation from Salagir about the Future Androids being weaker than their present counter part: I mean, this is objectively incorrect. In the Manga Trunks thought they were weaker, but the Androids were fighting at half speed in the future and fucking around with them. Future 17 admits that much to Future Gohan (A fight Trunks was not present for).
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Post by عمار on Oct 29, 2024 3:22:30 GMT
I mean, this is objectively incorrect. In the Manga Trunks thought they were weaker, but the Androids were fighting at half speed in the future and fucking around with them. Future 17 admits that much to Future Gohan (A fight Trunks was not present for) Future Trunks was referring to HIS offscreen battles with the Future Androids, it has nothing to do with what Future #17 said to Future Gohan. And even if that's true, the Present Androids weren't going full strength either.
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