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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 16:42:12 GMT
If Jiren is anything to go by, then if there is a certain limit then it hasn't been hit by a mortal yet, plain and simple. MUI Goku is also not yet on the level either. Then again we're all just speculating on a bunch of poorly written stuff and I'm just throwing out random theories. Well Jiren and Goku aren't a threat to the universe. They're not giving anyone a reason to intervene with their growth since they keep to themselves and helping to protect their universes. If Jiren was a major threat, Toppo, Belmond, and their Angel likely would've been the first to deal with him and Goku probably wouldn't have gotten a chance to meet him. The threshold I was talking about is the power that could rival or surpass an Angel which Goku and Jiren still fall under. You were saying that an Angel might be there to prevent a GoD from growing too strong. I was theorizing that something like that could happen to prevent other mortals from reaching a certain level that goes beyond what an Angel can control. We don't know what happens when a different race besides the Saiyans masters UI and if it results in the same huge power-up or transformation. Even if it gives him a power-up, my point is that MUI Beerus might still be between the range of stronger than the other GoDs but weaker than an Angel. In BoG, SSJG was 60% of Beerus' power but was retconned in DBS to be less than 5% so the gap between Beerus and Whis could've also been retconned to make it even wider. We know Whis had been training Beerus to learn UI so Whis wouldn't have been against Beerus mastering it and growing stronger.
Of course, Toriyama could continue for as long as he wants. I'm saying that the power scaling in DBS is far beyond what most shonen or DB fanfiction ever reach. If another story does have their characters reach universe level, it's usually meant as the final big showdown of the series. It's sorta redundant to keep getting stronger from there because eventually Goku won't even be able to use his full power without threatening the universe. He may reach that point in this movie since both Goku and Broly are stronger than Beerus and Champa when they last fought. I think Toriyama would've held off on making Goku that powerful if he wanted this to continue for several years.
They've already exhausted almost every fanfic idea but the one I hope they never resort to having a random evil guy appear out of nowhere with little to no backstory or motive. There are thousands of fanfics out there that resort to this kind of villain when they're out of ideas. This is the lowest tier anyone can go! Cumber from DBHeroes is the closest example of this since we all we know about him is that he's an ancient Saiyan who was apparently restrained and kidnapped by Fu.
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Post by Axalon on Oct 28, 2018 3:04:40 GMT
Well Jiren and Goku aren't a threat to the universe. They're not giving anyone a reason to intervene with their growth since they keep to themselves and helping to protect their universes. If Jiren was a major threat, Toppo, Belmond, and their Angel likely would've been the first to deal with him and Goku probably wouldn't have gotten a chance to meet him. The threshold I was talking about is the power that could rival or surpass an Angel which Goku and Jiren still fall under. You were saying that an Angel might be there to prevent a GoD from growing too strong. I was theorizing that something like that could happen to prevent other mortals from reaching a certain level that goes beyond what an Angel can control. I agree that something might be in place for mortals at well, but I'm just saying I don't think that they rival or surpass an angel at all. Not yet at least. All the buzzwords are about how they match up against GoDs, not the far superior angels as a benchmark. I think Whis could go down between Jiren and MUI Goku and defeat both of them easily with the same ease that El Grande Padre stopped two GoDs with one finger per god. I would be very upset if Saiyans were the only ones to get a powerup while everyone else can just dodge. Just freaking let them make DBs next Toriyama, given it's one of the few things they seemingly can't do nowadays! I mean, we've already passed that point. *rant incoming* TL;DR at the bottom.  It's only because of the nebulous "Well everyone in DB has ki control!" excuse you hear on battle boards that the universe hasn't already blown up. You know, the same reason that Cell is easily a planetbuster but him punching the planet at full force while he's a rage monster who isn't thinking clearly and is using every ounce of strength he can muster barely makes a crater.  Logic! This is why I haven't been able to take the Goku Black character seriously at all, hilariously enough since he's the most "fanfiction" type of character in DBS. He's the one villain in DBS with the goal of just wiping out everything in all the universes and he could literally do it with the ease of clapping his hands together really, really hard to destroy the universe and then he just...doesn't. We've long since passed the initial point of universe-busting by now and I don't think Black even destroyed a single planet onscreen! We have universe-busters and a fight between the two can't even shake up a planet sometimes! This was made worse by when the manga just had like a billion Merged Zamasus running around. Just...I dunno, have like ten of them start punching their fists against each other like Goku and Beerus above! Boom. Instant dead universe, no assembly required. No, the real problem with power scaling in DBS (and DBZ for that matter) is that it's power scaling for the sake of power scaling without any appreciable change in risk. Unless some character explicitly states something like "THIS BLAST WILL DESTROY THE PLANET YOU DAMN MONKEY" or "THEIR PUNCHES ARE GOING TO WRECK THE UNIVERSE!" you can quite safely assume that there is currently no threat whatsoever to the planet/universe as Goku gets punched into a mountain for the bajillionth time. A random energy blast that blasted SSB Goku into a skyscraper that was too strong for him to deflect or counter? Apparently that blast is simultaneously strong enough for him to not do those things and get pushed back but also weak enough to not blow up a continent or something just by sheer aftershock. It's all a bunch of telling and very, very rarely some showing, and is why almost every single fight in DBZ/DBS all looks the goddamn same despite the horrendous power scaling. Case in point:  That tiny little blast is apparently a planetbuster, going off of Goku and Vegeta's panicked reactions, and Vegeta fires an equally tiny blast to negate it. So what happens when, in the midst of a pitched battle someone prone to firing tiny blasts in succession *coughVegetacough* misses? Why, the planet doesn't blow up of course! Why? Like seriously, why? If the blasts were too weak to blow up the planet what did he possibly think they were going to accomplish, given the power scaling? This is why we have the TFS joke about "does that EVER work?". The true answer is that the consequences only matter when the plot requires them to matter. Even the ToP looks the same, since the arena was messed up to the point that there are now conveniently mountains to punch people through...  It's like Toriyama/Toyotaro/Toei can't conceive of a fight that isn't either a ruined city, a tournament arena, or some mountain range somewhere. The Cell Games gets bonus points for being an arena in the middle of a mountain range, while the ToP took an arena and made it into a mountain range! Truly perfection. I think the most creative it ever got was Janemba, when they fought in Candy Hell. TL;DR: To answer this point @skar I would say that Goku will never reach a point where he can't use his full power in fear of accidentally destroying something because it would run contrary to how it's been treated through all of DB. The closest we got was in the DBS BoG arc and Goku quite quickly learned how to stop that from happening. If he hadn't and the universe would've been destroyed, well, that's what Whis is there for to turn back time. Villains like Goku Black who seek to wipe out all life also won't do it because reasons. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 5:36:19 GMT
I agree that something might be in place for mortals at well, but I'm just saying I don't think that they rival or surpass an angel at all. Not yet at least. All the buzzwords are about how they match up against GoDs, not the far superior angels as a benchmark. I think Whis could go down between Jiren and MUI Goku and defeat both of them easily with the same ease that El Grande Padre stopped two GoDs with one finger per god. That’s literally what I said  . Maybe I worded it wrong but when I said “Goku and Jiren still fall under” I meant they are still far below the power of the Angels. In the next comment, I mentioned that a MUI Beerus might be stronger than MUI Goku but still be weaker than Whis. If the idea is that the Angels prevent mortals for getting too strong, Beerus and Goku mastering UI would have to be well below Whis' power since he's training and encouraging them to obtain it. The gap between Goku and Whis could still be wide enough that Goku might have no chance of reaching his power without another new transformation/change of hair color. I agree the physics wasn’t consistent but fans could write an essay about how Toriyama isn’t a scientist. There was a clear attempt to escalate their destructive capability as the series went on. In DBZ, the excuse was that the characters were concentrating their power or aiming away from the Earth to avoid destroying it. They’ve used that excuse in DBS as well but continue to escalate the power even more every few sagas. In BoG, Goku vs a suppressed Beerus could threaten the universe. Two sagas later, it was revealed that Beerus can’t fight Champa at full power without threatening both their universes. Goku Black only wanted to wipe out the mortals and preserve their planets so it even tried to account for why he didn’t just try to destroy the universe. In the ToP, MUI Goku and Jiren were causing the whole World of Void to shake. We don’t know how big that dimension was but I assume the reason it was chosen was to avoid any collateral damage. Storywise, there’s no reason to have the characters get this strong because there are other series that continue far longer than Dragonball without ever reaching planet level. Toriyama only did this every few sagas as a convenient way to show that the characters have become astronomically more powerful than before. If the series continues, Goku will eventually go up against an enemy in a battle that threatens multiple universes and then eventually against someone threatening the entire multiverse. Sure, Goku could learn to control his power so he won’t cause any collateral damage but based on all that we’ve seen then there will eventually be crazier displays of power. Whether Toriyama chooses to end the series or it gets cancelled after they run out of decent ideas, the series is going to come to end someday. It doesn't seem like they have many good ideas left. I’m saying that it’s not impossible to assume Toriyama had some kind of end in mind. In BoG, Beerus became the new goal for Goku to work towards and it could be that surpassing Beerus is as far as Toriyama intended for Goku to go. Since he decided to have all of DBS take place within a timeskip, it may have been intended give Goku something to do before the story transitions to EoZ and Goku retires to train Uub. |
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Post by Axalon on Oct 28, 2018 6:46:43 GMT
I agree that something might be in place for mortals at well, but I'm just saying I don't think that they rival or surpass an angel at all. Not yet at least. All the buzzwords are about how they match up against GoDs, not the far superior angels as a benchmark. I think Whis could go down between Jiren and MUI Goku and defeat both of them easily with the same ease that El Grande Padre stopped two GoDs with one finger per god. That’s literally what I said . Maybe I worded it wrong but when I said “Goku and Jiren still fall under” I meant they are still far below the power of the Angels. In the next comment, I mentioned that a MUI Beerus might be stronger than MUI Goku but still be weaker than Whis. If the idea is that the Angels prevent mortals for getting too strong, Beerus and Goku mastering UI would have to be well below Whis' power since he's training and encouraging them to obtain it. The gap between Goku and Whis could still be wide enough that Goku might have no chance of reaching his power without another new transformation/change of hair color. Ah, yeah I thought you meant Goku fell under the category of mortals to surpass angels, which really, really confused me. Seems we agreed and just took a while to come to the realization. I honestly don't put too much stock in world shaking. It was impressive back when Goku and Vegeta first fought but was laughable when SS3 Goku powering up literally did the exact same thing as Saiyan Saga Goku/Vegeta for reasons explained in my rant above about consistency being too consistent. Obviously a much more powerful version of the fighter who shook the world previously is just going to shake the world again! Come on Toriyama! I get that this is supposed to be a step above with the whole Void thing, but given we don't know how big the damn thing is beyond "infinite nothingness", so...we're shaking literally infinite amounts...of nothing?! Which in and of itself is a lie because we see all the stars and galaxies and crap, which is a far cry from "infinite nothing". Honestly I think they really are going to just retcon lots of EoZ. Uub is of course still a thing but he makes no sense given how EoZ plays out currently. Goku is so strong by now that it makes no sense that a reincarnated Kid Buu is going to be "the fight to watch" when Vegeta is standing right there and both have surpassed Kid Buu long ago. Piccolo of all people should know this, this isn't some dumb statement from Chiaotzu or something, it's Piccolo! He's been there for practically every new powerup! EoZ originally works if we assume that Goku in fact did the opposite of DBS and gained little to no power at all! So either Uub is going to get wanked up to MUI Goku++ levels, *somehow*, or it just won't make any sense at all. Truthfully I'm just waiting for this to all be just a game between Beerus and Champa, much like the Reincarnated Yamcha story, where it's all a bunch of crazy what-ifs the two GoDs have been throwing at each other in some kind of DBS D&D session and they keep one-upping each other with "OH YEAH? WELL THIS GUY STEALS YOUR GUY'S BODY AND GETS PINK HAIR AND THEN MEETS HIS FUTURE OTHER SELF AND FUSES WITH POTARA EARRINGS! WHAT NOW BEERUS?" and then Belmod jumps in and is all "Well MY guy is like, the strongest ever." and then Beerus is like "OH YEAH, WELL MY GUY GETS ULTRA INSTINCT LATER AND...HIS HAIR TURNS WHITE THIS TIME!" followed by "SERIOUSLY BEERUS? ANOTHER HAIR COLOR? GET ORIGINAL!". You know, stuff like that. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 16:28:06 GMT
I honestly don't put too much stock in world shaking. It was impressive back when Goku and Vegeta first fought but was laughable when SS3 Goku powering up literally did the exact same thing as Saiyan Saga Goku/Vegeta for reasons explained in my rant above about consistency being too consistent. Obviously a much more powerful version of the fighter who shook the world previously is just going to shake the world again! Come on Toriyama! I get that this is supposed to be a step above with the whole Void thing, but given we don't know how big the damn thing is beyond "infinite nothingness", so...we're shaking literally infinite amounts...of nothing?! Which in and of itself is a lie because we see all the stars and galaxies and crap, which is a far cry from "infinite nothing". Well, it doesn't make sense but it's just meant to show that they're so powerful they're somehow able to shake up this vast dimension and it's far beyond the times when their power only shook up the planet. The Buu saga also had SSJ3 reducing the fusion time and Gotenks and Super Buu ripping a whole though the Hyperbolic Time Chamber which at the time was meant to show how great and unstable their power has become. Other shonen try to avoid this by relying more on techniques and abilities but Dragonball has mainly been about surpassing limits and reaching new heights in terms of power. That's one of the many reasons why I have no problem with the series ending for good because it's just more of the same with it only getting crazier the longer it goes. I think the notion that the series could continue for several more sagas without even more insane feats is unlikely. DBS already has a being that could wipe out the entire multiverse so the question is if Toriyama wants to it continue until Goku eventually become that powerful or if he plans to end it before that. I recall Toyotaro saying that the goal is for DBS to eventually lead into EoZ so I'm assuming not much about is going to change. By DBS logic, Uub should have more potential than Freeza and possibly Broly and Goku could train him to use God ki/Ultra Instinct which would give him an even bigger boost. I have no idea how DBS itself ends but Goku is going to have to reach a point that he has no competition left then he gets bored and looks forward to training Uub again. In EoZ, Vegeta was implied to still be weaker than Goku so DBS will likely end with Goku being one form ahead. This would also line up with Goku having Ultra Instinct and Vegeta struggling to obtain it or find a different transformation to rival its power. I honestly wouldn't mind something like that. I'm still hoping DBS turns out to be a dream Goku had to pass the time. He speculates how far he can go as he keeps facing off against stronger and stronger opponents and what new gods he can encounter as the pantheon gets even more convulated. Goku comes to the conclusion that some things are best left alone and nothing in his dream came close to the experiences he already had. It ends with him appreciating what he had because sometimes asking for more may devalue or diminish what has come before it or something like that. It would be a win-win situation since they got to milk the series for a few years while leaving the original story alone. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 17:27:16 GMT
So what about the people that enjoyed the additions to DBS that have just been told that the series was a waste of time?
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 28, 2018 17:41:49 GMT
So what about the people that enjoyed the additions to DBS that have just been told that the series was a waste of time? Yeah, this is why it's a huge problem. However it's clear that the creators didn't intend to truly fit the additions into an organic history. The fact they decided to cramp up the whole serie as an interquel (and not a sequel) is proof of this. In over 20 years, they faced Saiyans, Freeza, Cell and Buu. in DBSUPER in less than 5 years they faced: Beerus, Golden Freeza, the U6 dudes, Black and Zamasu and Jiren and the ToP. Not to mention DBSuper also screws the end of Z a bit for the reasons @skar and Axalon have already said many times during this convo. Makes little sense to be excited about Uub when you've defeated fucking Jiren and overmaximum Broly. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 17:42:03 GMT
So what about the people that enjoyed the additions to DBS that have just been told that the series was a waste of time? Well they could do the same as the people who enjoy the original movies and GT: still enjoy it and view it as one of the many alternate universes in the franchise . That's how I look at it now but I'm just saying I wouldn't be against it turning out to be a dream. Edit Conqueror GengAccording to one timeline I saw, RoF (after Freeza's training), the U6 saga, and Goku Black sagas all took place within Age 779. I'm not sure of the source but I think it was mentioned one of the recent games. Toriyama is definitely trying to cram all these sagas before EoZ. |
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 28, 2018 18:29:10 GMT
So what about the people that enjoyed the additions to DBS that have just been told that the series was a waste of time? Nothing. My guess is they’ll keep Super in canon and just not bother explaining or even properly fitting it to the original manga ending. They are never going to deal Bulma sudden aging or Goten and Trunks growth spurt or even Goku not seeing his friends in years. At this point I think when or if they ever end anew DB stuff without going to a proper sequel they will just leave well enough alone and allow fans to come to their own conclusion. Uub problem I assume if he ever comes into the story Goku will mention Majin Buu’s massive potential to grow and learn quickly that he thinks Uub can easily catch up and to surpass even Freeza’s growth rate and wants to train him to be a proper fight for him. I don’t really see Uub coming into the story ever and if Toriyama still doesn’t want to set anything after the original ending they probably will just stay in this condensed timeline. |
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Post by Axalon on Oct 29, 2018 6:54:41 GMT
Other shonen try to avoid this by relying more on techniques and abilities but Dragonball has mainly been about surpassing limits and reaching new heights in terms of power. That's one of the many reasons why I have no problem with the series ending for good because it's just more of the same with it only getting crazier the longer it goes. I think the notion that the series could continue for several more sagas without even more insane feats is unlikely. DBS already has a being that could wipe out the entire multiverse so the question is if Toriyama wants to it continue until Goku eventually become that powerful or if he plans to end it before that. Oh I'm sure if DBS continues for a few more seasons we'll have Goku trading punches with El Grande Padre and threatening the existence of all the universes, or something like that. YA GOTTA UP THAT POWER CREEP, THOSE ARE ROOKIE NUMBERS! -Toriyama, probably. Oh I don't mind the Uub Potential Theory or whatever, I'm more just pointing out that EoZ just doesn't fit without retconning. It's just goes to show how bizarre it is that Goku vs. Vegeta isn't "the fight to watch" given what we now know about DBS as opposed to "Goku vs Kid Buu 2.0, Round 2". If Uub were already at these MAXIMUM power levels that would give MUI/SSB Goku a challenge, they would've felt it from Uub training prior to the tournament or throwing a temper tantrum or something. Hell, even if he were at regular Kid Buu levels they would've felt something at some point. Vegeta actually even points out to Goku that he hasn't felt anything powerful at all prior to the EoZ tournament, but Goku--spying on Uub like a stalker because he knows who he really is--professes otherwise and says he's hiding his power or something. Later, Piccolo then says--to Dende of ALL people--that Goku vs Uub will be THE match to watch...and Dende has no idea what he's talking about.  This is the same Dende, need I remind everyone, who did THIS in Manga Super:  So Dende already knows who he is, but in EoZ he's all like "HUHHH??" Either way it doesn't make sense. Either Dende didn't actually know Uub was Kid Buu in the original EoZ (which is contradicted by the scan above) or Piccolo says that Uub will be a better fight to watch than Goku vs Vegeta, which is contradicted by literally everything from SSG and up and Kid Buu being an absolute weakling compared to Vegeta, let alone Goku who possibly has true MUI at this point. I'm fine with Goku going on to take Uub under his wing because "Muh Potential" or whatever, I'm more just focused on how it actually plays out than what happens afterwards in GT in the future. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 19:17:20 GMT
Oh I'm sure if DBS continues for a few more seasons we'll have Goku trading punches with El Grande Padre and threatening the existence of all the universes, or something like that. YA GOTTA UP THAT POWER CREEP, THOSE ARE ROOKIE NUMBERS! -Toriyama, probably. That’s part of the problem I was talking about. Many joke predictions and memes have come true when fans are just look at what has happened with the series and parody it. The guy who came up with the Gohan Blanco meme probably didn’t expect to see a white-haired form and was only making a joke based on how many different colors we’ve seen already. I don’t doubt they might try to milk it as long as they can but I’m wondering what actual good ideas they have left. We all have ideas we wish to see like the humans or Piccolo getting a huge power-up, Gohan getting a God form, more focus on the next generation, and a reboot of the entire series with as much effort and dedication that the original had but I feel there’s a big difference between what we’re wishing would happen and what we realistically think will happen based on how DBS has focused on so far. That’s true but I assume they have to try and preserve as much of it as they can since the main selling point of DBS is that it’s part of Toriyama’s original manga. Besides those scenes with Dende and Piccolo, Bulma also mentioned that she hasn’t seen Goku in five years which conflicts what year it is currently in DBS. The ToP is supposed to be set in Age 780 so it’s only 3.5 to 4 years away from EoZ. Toriyama might alter some of it to fit with DBS but I don't think he can change it completely and claim it's still based on the original continuity. In 2004, he made slight changes to the ending in the Kanzenban edition but the original still exists and is being published. He explained in 2016 that he made those changes to emphasize that Goku's journey was over and that Uub would going to take the lead (someday?). There have been three versions of BoG so I guess he wouldn't be against having more than one version of EoZ as long as the original message remains intact. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 17:30:06 GMT
It looks like the manga is going to skip Broly (I guess we're supposed to assume the manga's version is the same as the movie) and moving on to the next saga, "Galactic/Galaxy Patrol Prisoner Arc".
Damn, I was hoping Broly would be the final villain of the series. This sounds like something out of Heroes. Did Buu release Grand Kaioshin? I'm so confused.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Nov 16, 2018 18:04:09 GMT
I would not have liked another "not bad guy" as a villain tho. Broly is more like a Jiren that actually makes sense now, and that actually got a backstory planned in time.
He's technically still the last villain of DBSuper1 though. How is the anime going to be called now? DBSuper2? I'd think so since Z was originally a misspelling of 2.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 18:53:38 GMT
Conqueror GengIf there is an antagonist this saga, I hope he's not as bland as Jiren. In my opinion, Jiren could've been in Heroes and he probably wouldn't have stood out much compared to its other villains. Honestly, I think the whole ToP saga probably would've been more fitting in Heroes. Having most of the other contestants standing around waiting to fight U7 might've worked better if they were NPCs in a video game. That would explain why they barely do anything when they're not interacting with the playable characters. I prefer they go with simpler stories like the Broly movie because it doesn't raise your expectations as much. You're going into that knowing it's mostly fan service and the only thing I got my hopes up for is Broly's new characterization. Of course, I would rather it end and not turn into another zombie series that gets milked forever but that doesn't look like it's going to happen until it gets so bad and even the most diehard fans give up. That's the most depressing way for a series to go out when it doesn't have a proper ending and it just gets cancelled once it stops making as much money as the studio wants.
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Post by Overridden With Joy Yuya on Nov 18, 2018 19:22:02 GMT
The fact we never got TTGL level destruction from any DB series from my knowledge is unironically the biggest blueball sinse,uhh,Super starting out with the movie recaps intead of a new arc? Yeah,sounds about right. It looks like the manga is going to skip Broly (I guess we're supposed to assume the manga's version is the same as the movie) and moving on to the next saga, "Galactic/Galaxy Patrol Prisoner Arc". I mean,assuming the manga,animes and movies are going to have the same script is whishful thinking,maybe they will follow plotline reminiscence of one another,if were lucky |
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Post by Xeno Black on Nov 18, 2018 21:48:43 GMT
Can someone translate this for me:  According to one person, this unknown dude wants to extract Grand Kai from Fat Buu's body. If this is true, how will this affect Buu's psyche, let alone his current form? And will the strange reasoning why U7 had five supreme kai's instead of one will finally be explained? |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 19, 2018 0:05:52 GMT
Can someone translate this for me: According to one person, this unknown dude wants to extract Grand Kai from Fat Buu's body. If this is true, how will this affect Buu's psyche, let alone his current form? And will the strange reasoning why U7 had five supreme kai's instead of one will finally be explained? Not a translation of the page, but a summary/synopsis of the next arc from Herms98.
EDIT: Included an Imgur of the image from his tweet in case you can't see it like I can't.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 19, 2018 0:43:38 GMT
Didn't they make it a point in Z (or hell maybe it was Super) that this is literally impossible? Like all the Kais from way back when are just a part of Buu now since it's been so long?
Yeah they did, but then again Kibitokai was supposed to be permanent too and the DBs could undo it, so maybe they'll use the DBs to extract the Grand Supreme Kai.
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Post by Xeno Black on Nov 19, 2018 2:39:42 GMT
If that truly the case, this makes me a little bit more excited about the next arc. Who is this villain that only the Grand Supreme Kai can help with? Is it possible it is the same "villain" that destroyed Jiren's childhood in some fashion? So many questions at this point I cannot help but to ask for.
But to me, basically Fat Buu is like the potara fusion of both Grand and South Kai with Kid Buu's body being the basis. If they do extract Grand Kai from him (which only the Super Dragon Balls could accomplish), will Buu basically become Buff Buu, or something entirely different? His power hypothetically speaking should plummet, but Grand Kai actually lowered it upon being absorbed thanks to his inherited good morals. And as a fission separated from Kid Buu, the cards are in the air on what will actually occur to the pudgy djinn. But I do hope that Grand Kai will eventually merge himself with Buu once everything is resolved. It wouldn't feel right continuing dragon ball with Buu being incomplete.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Nov 19, 2018 2:53:16 GMT
If that truly the case, this makes me a little bit more excited about the next arc. Who is this villain that only the Grand Supreme Kai can help with? Is it possible it is the same "villain" that destroyed Jiren's childhood in some fashion? So many questions at this point I cannot help but to ask for. But to me, basically Fat Buu is like the potara fusion of both Grand and South Kai with Kid Buu's body being the basis. If they do extract Grand Kai from him (which only the Super Dragon Balls could accomplish), will Buu basically become Buff Buu, or something entirely different? His power hypothetically speaking should plummet, but Grand Kai actually lowered it upon being absorbed thanks to his inherited good morals. And as a fission separated from Kid Buu, the cards are in the air on what will actually occur to the pudgy djinn. But I do hope that Grand Kai will eventually merge himself with Buu once everything is resolved. It wouldn't feel right continuing dragon ball with Buu being incomplete.
I don't see why normal Dragon Balls wouldn't be able to accomplish it since normal Dragon Balls were enough to defuse Kibitokai. I don't think the matter of time should make any difference here since Kibitokai wasn't any less of a permanent fusion than is the case with Fat Buu. Now if the Super Dragon Balls get used, I could totally see them just bringing back a duplicate of the GSK and possibly even South Supreme Kai too w/o any negative repercussions to Fat Buu at all, whereas normal Dragon Balls could have the repercussions you are talking about since they would only be capable of defusing instead of cloning, which the Super Dragon Balls should be capable of doing.
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. Maybe I worded it wrong but when I said “Goku and Jiren still fall under” I meant they are still far below the power of the Angels. In the next comment, I mentioned that a MUI Beerus might be stronger than MUI Goku but still be weaker than Whis. If the idea is that the Angels prevent mortals for getting too strong, Beerus and Goku mastering UI would have to be well below Whis' power since he's training and encouraging them to obtain it. The gap between Goku and Whis could still be wide enough that Goku might have no chance of reaching his power without another new transformation/change of hair color. 
