Dragon Ball Super Manga Thread (SPOILERS)

Conqueror Geng

Shit, I forgot this was post-Broly too. I forgot the Broly movie was even a thing. I should get around to watching that one of these days. Is it worth watching? Japan's tendency to spoil everything made it seem like I wasn't missing much aside from some better-than-normal animation for DBS.

That said, I do still think it's worse than Frieza/#17, on the basis that they at least trained. They worked for it in some capacity, and even though it was the flimsiest of excuses, it at least showed a desire to improve and a willingness to follow through. Buu is just stronger because he had some hypno-aromatherapy and can access a person he's absorbed, who was someone weaker than Kid Buu anyway at the time of absorption, and is now stronger than post-Broly Goku. Heck, even Toei's version of Buu will have at least trained! DBS has constantly been getting worse, gradually, at explaining these half-assed powerups.

First Frieza trains for four months because he's a mutant with potential or something, so now he's god-tier. Then Goku Black gets insanely stronger by abusing zenkais even though it's literally Goku's body and neither Goku nor Vegeta can use that same exploit for some bizarre reason and Vegeta and Goku don't even question that zenkais work differently for him, they just accept it. Then #17 fights off random poachers and becomes god-tier. Goku and Vegeta had to train with the Angel attendant to the GoD himself to do the same. Then Manga Goku watches Roshi dodge some slow attacks from Jiren and suddenly has insight into the ultimate state of warrior-ism. Now Buu smells some incense and becomes stronger than post-Broly Goku?

A good example of DBS strength gains? Anime Piccolo. By the ToP, Big Green has elevated himself to SS2 levels of power purely through training. It's pathetic nowadays of course, but considering that last time we saw him do anything substantial was when he was vastly weaker than Super Vegeta, that's a nice gain overall. SS2 is still essentially Goku's "warm-up level" for when he feels like transforming without going 100%, so Piccolo could conceivably have some good fights without even mentioning his tactical prowess.

I mean come on Toyotaro, I gave you more credit than that. The others I could at least chalk up to lazy Toriyama writing, but I don't think I can say the same here. Then again I'm fairly certain the universebusting thing came from Toyotaro as well, so it's not like he hasn't been injecting a little DB fanfic-isms already. Vegito appearing at all was certainly the case for this as well, since Toriyama hadn't even intended to use Vegito. At this rate I'm half-expecting them to just stop with the explanations at all. Frieza will come back with his new Absolutely True Pure Golden 24 Karat Form and be stronger than UI Goku and the explanation won't happen at all and everyone just accepts it as if it was always a thing. Then Goku uses SSB UI KKx10 and defeats Frieza, again. Then Vegeta reveals that he too got SSB UI offscreen just in time for the rematch with Jiren channeling full SUPER OWARI DA power teamed up with Hit using ZA WARUDO to enhance his Time Skip and no one even questions what the hell a Stand is and why Hit is suddenly posing like a sexy Captain Ginyu and Ho-Hoing to everything because you thought it was Hit, but it was me, DIO!



Yes I literally wrote half of that reply to Conqueror Geng to slowly build up to a Dio Brando joke.

Ashanark Yeah, it does show just how useful Buu would've been. Hell, even without the powerup everyone knows Buu would've been a damn useful character. I just don't really like that I guess that DBS is just so sub-par that it isn't even worth asking if it makes sense anymore, just gratitude that Toriyama-san in his infinite mercy (or in this case Toyotaro) has deigned to grace the pages of this chapter with a character besides Goku and that character isn't just jobbing hard to a new villain and is instead useful, if only momentarily. Then again I had similar issues with Avengers: Endgame and fanservice over logic so meh.

The Buu punching thing is cool though, despite the lack of sense. I wonder how Jiren stacks up to Moro or Grand Supreme Buu. He was the last major antagonist after all, and so far all three of them are stronger than post-Broly SSB Goku/Vegeta.

EDIT: Not letting go of the Moori point without some kind of retcon being stated though. There shouldn't have been any wishes made at all. Porunga should be dead. No Porunga means no Moro healing, no Moro healing means Buu should've ended him already.

Calling it now - Moro's mystery wish was to be immune to the Supreme Kai ability sealing skill so he is now "INWINCIBLE¡!"

But will somehow still job to being punched REALLY HARD because raisins.

That's true but like most things in DBS it usually involves repeating something that happened then taking it to an extreme far beyond anything in the series. The largest of power-ups in DBZ would only lead to a character jumping one or two tiers. DBS had these side characters jump through a few sagas worth of power-ups in one jump.

For example, imagine if U12 Trunks had a rage boost that pushed him to +Vegetto tier, U16/U18 Gohan slacking off for a few years and reaching Vegetto after a day of training, U14 #17 surpassing Vegetto after beating up weak humans for a few years, or U11 Fat Buu unlocking Grand Kaioshin's consciousness and surpassing every stronger form of Buu including Zen Buu. I mean they're kinda forced to do that to make anyone relevant since the God SSJ forms were made to be so astronomically powerful but that only results in crazier power-ups for the other Z fighters than what we're seen before and it feels like it gets more ridiculous each time. Buu might be the last though since they've already covered most of the Z fighters.


That might within Porunga's power since his magic was able to undo the Potara fusion in DBS. I'm curious why Moro ran away rather than face Buu head-on if he's now immune to Grand Kaioshin's magic.

I think another difference is that the supporting characters still relevant in DBZ were progressing each saga. Piccolo participated and grew stronger each saga until he retired and could no longer keep up after the Cell Games. In DBS, not only are the power-ups far beyond anything in DBZ but they're also for characters who have been out of the picture for a few sagas. It involves bringing back a popular characters that we haven't done anything since DBZ and making up for the power difference with one giant boost. It's like one last hurrah for these fan favorite before they fade away and go back to doing their thing. I feel like we won't see #17 or Gohan fight again especially since Gohan didn't show up in DBS: Broly and didn't sense the huge battle. This is probably the last chance for Buu to do anything before his name is checked off the fan service list. I agree it's a pretty absurd power-up if he's meant to be SSJB tier now but um pointing out that this might be their reasoning behind it.


That makes sense. I'm curious how they could defeat him now without Grand Kaioshin's magic. He almost killed Goku and Vegeta before so I don't think fusion or UI will make a difference and would only give Moro more power to absorb. Moro did have a lot inspiration from various movie villains so maybe his absorption works like Hatchiyak's blast or Hirudegarn when he became angry and leaves an opening.

A crossover with all of his friends and enemies to take down a being who threatens to erase them from existence in a snap?

Actually I think we're going to get something to do with the Spirit Bomb, possibly even 'Spirit-Saiyan'. Mostly because Moro's world eating technique REALLY looks like the Evil version of it.

Yeah I guess it might come down to that. We've already seen Goku and Vegeta use both fusions and team-up in SSJB so I'm guessing they won't defeat Moro that way. It could be UI but I assume they're saving its return for a +GoD tier threat stronger than Jiren since they made a point about Goku not being to access the form again after the ToP. I'm not sure what else they might do to be honest but it depends on what his last wish is. I just think Buu's magic will play a bigger role in the final battle than only stopping Moro's absorption.

I'm hoping there's more involvement from Buu since this is the only time they've had two magic users battle. King Piccolo was the only major villain who was defeated by getting punched really hard and Moro already shares enough similarities with him. I think there might be more to his defeat if there's an attempt for Moro to stand out from the characters he was based on.

When you said "punch him really, really hard" I assumed you meant that as their last resort move after everything else failed like what happened with King Piccolo. If all use of physical force against an enemy is considered the same thing then that includes not only 99% of Dragonball battles but almost all battles in the action genre. The hope is that there is some variety to it and doesn't end similarly to other battles.

For example, many fans are looking forward to XXI vs Zen Buu because it's a fight between the two strongest magic users in the tournament. It's kinda expected that there's probably going to be be some punching and blasting between them but also that there might some magic or techniques we haven't seen before.