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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 20, 2019 9:11:39 GMT
 Cool, so we're going to fight a China shop version of U6? I already see a pirate Magetta, a second-rate Hit, a discount Botamo, etc.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 16:28:01 GMT
Four galaxies are from filler. DBS showed up that they are way more galaxies then just four. I'm not sure where the four galaxies idea originated. I thought it may have been based on a mistranslation. There were several galaxies in the background when Super Shenron was summoned so there's definitely more than four in DBS. Having a smaller universe with only four galaxies might work better for DBS since there are so few inhabited planets anyway. The bigger the universe is, the fewer planets the Galactic Patrol would have under their watch. That's even less divided among the four Kais across the whole universe. King Kai might have the most populated quadrant though since he has the Galactic Patrol and most of Freeza's empire. |
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Post by squirz96 on Jul 20, 2019 17:04:19 GMT
Four galaxies are from filler. DBS showed up that they are way more galaxies then just four. I'm not sure where the four galaxies idea originated. I thought it may have been based on a mistranslation. There were several galaxies in the background when Super Shenron was summoned so there's definitely more than four in DBS. Having a smaller universe with only four galaxies might work better for DBS since there are so few inhabited planets anyway. The bigger the universe is, the fewer planets the Galactic Patrol would have under their watch. That's even less divided among the four Kais across the whole universe. King Kai might have the most populated quadrant though since he has the Galactic Patrol and most of Freeza's empire. I believe it comes after Cell Saga before Buu Saga began. Filler Arc where Goku fought Pikon. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 17:39:57 GMT
I believe it comes after Cell Saga before Buu Saga began. Filler Arc where Goku fought Pikon. I found this guide on Kanzenshuu that goes into more detail. The first time galaxies are mentioned in the series is during the discussion between North Kaiō and the Namekian Elder during Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza’s battle on Planet Namek. Up until this point in the series Kaiō had simply been referred to as “Kaiō”, with no indication that anyone else held that title. As the guide oni who took Goku to the Serpent Road explained in chapter 205, Kaiō “stands above all the gods in the universe”. However, later in chapter 323 Kaiō introduces himself to the Eldest as “the Kaiō of the North Galaxy” (北銀河の界王; kita-ginga no kaiō), at the time implying that there may be Kaiō of other galaxies. Since there is no real plural in Japanese, “North Galaxy” could also be interpreted as “North Galaxies”.
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The preceding sections above pertain to the original manga, its various animated adaptations, and official guidebooks written to accompany them. The newest series, Dragon Ball Super, complicates the view of galaxies in two ways. First, it reveals that everything previously seen within the franchise was confined to Universe 7 and that the Dragon Ball world actually consists of twelve universes in total. Therefore, even if Universe 7 really does contain a mere four galaxies, the total number of galaxies within the entire Dragon Ball world should be higher than that. More importantly, in Dragon Ball Super episode 31, Jaco explains that the universe contains a tremendous number of galaxies, and that his Galactic Patrol unit only covers the Milky Way Galaxy (天の川銀河). This is the first time this term is ever used within the Dragon Ball franchise.
In addition, the titanic body of Super Shenlong — as first shown in Dragon Ball Super episode 41 — dwarfs what appear to be a number of nearby galaxies, thereby seeming to show that Universe 7 contains more than four galaxies. Dragon Ball Super itself consistently depicts Universe 7 as containing countless galaxies, in contrast to Dragon Ball Z where it was stated there were only four. As outlined above, while this contradicts the Dragon Ball Z Afterlife Tournament filler arc and various guidebooks, it can still be consistent with the original manga itself if one interprets the ambiguous Japanese wording there to mean that North Kaiō oversees the “northern galaxies”. On that assumption, it makes sense to resolve the galaxy/area conundrum from before by saying that North Kaiō is in charge of the North Area, which contains numerous galaxies (the northern galaxies), one of which is the Milky Way Galaxy. I'm pretty sure Namek was the only planet we've seen that was outside King Kai's jurisdiction so the rest we've must be in his quadrant. I think that would make sense for there to be only one Galactic Patrol if it's for the most populated galaxy. Most the galaxies would be empty since there are more galaxies than there are planets while a few may only one or two inhabited planets. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 21, 2019 17:05:27 GMT
I believe it comes after Cell Saga before Buu Saga began. Filler Arc where Goku fought Pikon. I found this guide on Kanzenshuu that goes into more detail. The first time galaxies are mentioned in the series is during the discussion between North Kaiō and the Namekian Elder during Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza’s battle on Planet Namek. Up until this point in the series Kaiō had simply been referred to as “Kaiō”, with no indication that anyone else held that title. As the guide oni who took Goku to the Serpent Road explained in chapter 205, Kaiō “stands above all the gods in the universe”. However, later in chapter 323 Kaiō introduces himself to the Eldest as “the Kaiō of the North Galaxy” (北銀河の界王; kita-ginga no kaiō), at the time implying that there may be Kaiō of other galaxies. Since there is no real plural in Japanese, “North Galaxy” could also be interpreted as “North Galaxies”.
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The preceding sections above pertain to the original manga, its various animated adaptations, and official guidebooks written to accompany them. The newest series, Dragon Ball Super, complicates the view of galaxies in two ways. First, it reveals that everything previously seen within the franchise was confined to Universe 7 and that the Dragon Ball world actually consists of twelve universes in total. Therefore, even if Universe 7 really does contain a mere four galaxies, the total number of galaxies within the entire Dragon Ball world should be higher than that. More importantly, in Dragon Ball Super episode 31, Jaco explains that the universe contains a tremendous number of galaxies, and that his Galactic Patrol unit only covers the Milky Way Galaxy (天の川銀河). This is the first time this term is ever used within the Dragon Ball franchise.
In addition, the titanic body of Super Shenlong — as first shown in Dragon Ball Super episode 41 — dwarfs what appear to be a number of nearby galaxies, thereby seeming to show that Universe 7 contains more than four galaxies. Dragon Ball Super itself consistently depicts Universe 7 as containing countless galaxies, in contrast to Dragon Ball Z where it was stated there were only four. As outlined above, while this contradicts the Dragon Ball Z Afterlife Tournament filler arc and various guidebooks, it can still be consistent with the original manga itself if one interprets the ambiguous Japanese wording there to mean that North Kaiō oversees the “northern galaxies”. On that assumption, it makes sense to resolve the galaxy/area conundrum from before by saying that North Kaiō is in charge of the North Area, which contains numerous galaxies (the northern galaxies), one of which is the Milky Way Galaxy. I'm pretty sure Namek was the only planet we've seen that was outside King Kai's jurisdiction so the rest we've must be in his quadrant. I think that would make sense for there to be only one Galactic Patrol if it's for the most populated galaxy. Most the galaxies would be empty since there are more galaxies than there are planets while a few may only one or two inhabited planets. Was it really? I remember we did a lot of calculations back then when people were debating how far were the stranded in Babidi's trap. Namek was only like 6 or 7 light years away from earth. EDIT: Shit, I can't believe I always reference the distance of Namek wrong, lmfao Really? Shit, i was under the impression it was really far away considering it took a couple of days to get to, but the namekian spaceship was moving alot faster then any real world one. Didn't it get to Jupiter in under a minute? 73 million miles per second * 86,400 seconds = 6.3072 trillion miles per day 6.3072 trillion miles per day * 34 days = 214.4448 trillion miles Approximately 214.4448 trillion miles from Earth to Old Namek 73 million miles per second is 391.8 times the speed of light 34 day length x 391.8 light speed multiplier / 365 days in a year = about 36.5 years traveling at the speed of light 214.4448 trillion miles is about 36.5 light years
Astronomers just discovered the closest possible Earth-like planet outside our solar system. It orbits our closest neighboring star, Proxima Centauri. The planet is warm enough for liquid water, is almost certainly rocky and terrestrial, and could even have an atmosphere. A t just 4.2 light years away, scientists are even wondering if this may be the closest home for life outside our solar system. Well, I was off. It seems Old Namek is around 9 times the amount of distance the closest planet in Proxima Centauri is from Earth. This is still a very limited range though, not even close to Galaxy jumping-level stuff. This means Old Namek was at best 5-6 solar systems away. Our real-life Milky Way approximately spans around 100,000 light years (33,000 parsecs). Likely all the DBZ universe we saw, and all its teleportations only happened in a very close range of at most 90-150 light years away. Only exceptions to this rule are the Otherworld. A couple billion parsecs, ex: 4 billion parsecs would be: 13,046,255,108 lightyears away. This is around the equivalent span of 130,462 Milky ways stacked together. The Milky way is around 2777 times the span of DBZ Earth to Old Namek. Knowing the previous numbers... 130,462 * 2777.. They are about 362,292,974 times the distance of DBZ Earth to Old Namek now. They are unfathomably fucking lost.
Oh, and with all of this, I am wrongly portraying the universe as a jumbo sized pizza for the sake of simplicity. Real universe is some spread out fractal in every direction (and DBM universe likely is too) which would be better calculated by an sphere as opposed to a flat circle. So, not only they are lost within a range of 4 billion parsecs on every direction on 2D, but also a 3D plane. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 20:57:41 GMT
Conqueror GengChapter 328 King Kai mentions Namek was outside his jurisdiction. I meant Namek was the only planet we've seen visited by the Z fighters that wasn't in his quadrant.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Jul 21, 2019 21:16:28 GMT
Conqueror Geng Chapter 328 King Kai mentions Namek was outside his jurisdiction. I meant Namek was the only planet we've seen visited by the Z fighters that wasn't in his quadrant. Then this indeed means the DBZ universe is very, very very small compared to our real one. 36 light years is barely qualifying as solar system jumping stuff, let alone galaxy or universal. Namek would only be like 4 or 5 real solar systems away (including the empty space between them). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 23:59:28 GMT
Then this indeed means the DBZ universe is very, very very small compared to our real one. 36 light years is barely qualifying as solar system jumping stuff, let alone galaxy or universal. Namek would only be like 4 or 5 real solar systems away (including the empty space between them). That may have been the case originally. It wasn't until DBS that it was referred to as the Milky Way galaxy so it seems to be as big as our universe. The only explanation I could think of is that since the universe is divided up into four equal sections some galaxies are right on the border between two neighboring quadrants. The Milky Way could happen to be on the edge of King Kai's quadrant so part with Namek in it belongs to a different quadrant. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 28, 2019 4:17:37 GMT
I thought at first that Vegeta had been wanting to go to Yardrat to learn Instant Transmission himself because he didn't want to rely on others, but I had read too quickly thru the part when he denies Goku bringing him with the others to Galactic Patrol HQ. Then I checked the wiki to see if anything else could be learned from the Yardratians, but all I could find was something about them being able to manipulate time and space and there is no source for DB wiki's claim that they can do this. I'm curious to see what it is Vegeta wants on Yardrat then. I mean I guess it's possible I could be correct and that Vegeta was misdirecting with his claim about it being a stupid parlor trick not worthy to be used by the Saiyan race. I honestly don't see anything else that it could be because if Vegeta wasn't misdirecting I doubt there is any brute force fighting abilities the Yardratians are capable of performing that Vegeta doesn't already know how to do himself. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 5:50:51 GMT
Then I checked the wiki to see if anything else could be learned from the Yardratians, but all I could find was something about them being able to manipulate time and space and there is no source for DB wiki's claim that they can do this. I think that might be just a fancy way to say they could teleport. The concept of teleportation is sometimes described as manipulating or "folding" space to travel across vast distances. I could be wrong and they might be referring to a different Yardrat ability from a video game or something. I'm also curious what Vegeta wants to learn. When Goku returned to Earth, Vegeta had heard about the Yardrats before but only knew that they had unique abilities. Vegeta's only deciding to go to Yardrat now so I guess it would have to be something he assumes could help him against Moro's magic specifically and may not have been useful against a previous enemy. |
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Jul 30, 2019 12:04:54 GMT
Then I checked the wiki to see if anything else could be learned from the Yardratians, but all I could find was something about them being able to manipulate time and space and there is no source for DB wiki's claim that they can do this. I think that might be just a fancy way to say they could teleport. The concept of teleportation is sometimes described as manipulating or "folding" space to travel across vast distances. I could be wrong and they might be referring to a different Yardrat ability from a video game or something. I'm also curious what Vegeta wants to learn. When Goku returned to Earth, Vegeta had heard about the Yardrats before but only knew that they had unique abilities. Vegeta's only deciding to go to Yardrat now so I guess it would have to be something he assumes could help him against Moro's magic specifically and may not have been useful against a previous enemy.
Makes sense that that could be a fancy way to refer to Instant Transmission, but teleportation usually doesn't have to do with time, so maybe it could be referring to a video game ability that was added to their repertoire to make them more usable in game as playable characters OR just to make them more useful in the story as NPCs.
Yeah, it probably does have something to do with how to defeat Moro because now would be such a terrible time to choose to learn how to use Instant Transmission just for the sake of not having to rely on Goku to assist him via using it to teleport him away from the battlefield. Or maybe it is Instant Transmission and he thinks for some reason that he could use it in some way that he doesn't believe Goku could use it to defeat Moro. Alternatively he could just be being stubborn and wouldn't want to hand Goku a win if he could learn the Instant Transmission himself to do whatever he thinks can be done with it to defeat Moro.
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Post by Andres on Aug 23, 2019 21:52:09 GMT
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Post by Ashanark on Aug 23, 2019 23:02:22 GMT
One thing I like about Toyotaro is that while anime DBS Goku seems like he lost 80 IQ points since Buu saga, Toyotaro tends to have Goku's personality more in-line with the Goku we knew and love. A bit more savvy, a bit less goofy--like knowing not wearing pants in public is probably strange. I also like how Toyotaro tends to be a bit more consistent in his PLs. We've had multiple scenes of Goku and Vegeta working their way up from base to god forms, while the anime would either have Goku just fight people in base or SSB.
With that said...
The other day I was talking to Genghis about how I label end of 2016 as the "dark era" of DBM: fan discontent with DBM was at an all-time high because of Bra beating Cold, while on the other hand DBS was probably at the height of its hype, with its first and only real arc (Zamasu) about to enter its climax. I feel we've entered a kind of reverse period here: DBM is at the best it's ever been in my opinion, while this is by far the weakest era of DBS ever since the anime retold RoF. (Hopefully DBM sticks the landing on this saga a bit better than DBS ended Zamasu.) It has none of the originality of the U6 tournament, the mystery of Zamasu saga, or the hype of the ToP. It's just... there.
For all of Toriyama's faults, back in the day he was fairly brilliant at coming up with character concepts and designs. While DBS drowns in recolors and other laziness, every now and then we see a bit of this old brilliance at work. Beerus and Whis, for example, looked NOTHING like any fan character we'd ever seen before--they were entirely original. I won't lie and say Salagir is the epitome of innovation because he's not, but he is very good at taking old things and presenting them in new ways, or developing underused things. Toyotaro, though, really just seems like an imitator: taking other people's ideas and rehashing them, without really expanding or exploring them in any way. By the looks of it this is his first REAL saga, and to me he's scraping at the bottom of the barrel for ideas:
-- Namek again, because we didn't do that recently
-- Yardrat again, because we didn't do that recently
-- A guy who looks like a discount Android 17, because Android 17 is cool now
-- Bringing in Pui Pui's race for some reason...?
-- An extended fight scene of a Beelzebub lookalike killing random Pui Puis
-- A Hit lookalike killing random Pui Puis
-- An Android 21 ripoff
Moro has quickly lost any of the potential he might've had. Not to mention the fights are both visually and conceptually bland. No offense to Asura because he is frankly amazing, but it says something when there's fan content out there which makes official products look like a fancomic. DBS has always come off as uninspired Ascended Fanon but it's most apparent here. Still, the fact Goku is working with Merus to master Ultra Instinct (what is this, the third time? I've lost count) shows Toyotaro probably intends this to be a serious saga and not filler.
Guess we'll find out in about ten more months, huh?
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 24, 2019 5:03:15 GMT
I actually get the feeling that Meerus is only at the very least SSJ3+ Tier in speed. The way Goku frames it combined with what we've seen from Meerus to me comes across as he's got impressive speed and knowledge of fighting technique but not necessarily raw power.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 30, 2019 21:21:02 GMT
Well those chapters weren't that satisfying.
So it seems GSB shielding Goku and Vegeta isn't part of the plan. At least not yet. Moro using a wish to free prisoners he could've freed on his own was...strange. Then Moro eats New Namek and Planet Zoon (of all places I wasn't expecting Pui Pui's to ever be mentioned again), Vegeta's off being jealous and everyone important being stronger than him again--even though he should be stronger than Goku already sans UI...thanks to his newest transformation which Goku doesn't have.
I do think it's hilarious that Vegeta is mad that he can't win by punching really hard because his strength is being drained before he can punch his hardest though. So while I appreciate the effort I still don't think it'll end up anywhere other than a punchfest.
Merus is pushing at the very least SS3, with Goku being motivated enough to go SSG on his ass. There's no reason even remnants of the Frieza Force should even exist if someone of this caliber is hanging around, to say nothing of Frieza himself. Even assuming that Merus is fairly young and wasn't around in Frieza's hey-day, it boggles the mind that he would have anything left to resurrect him with a SS3/SSG tier patrolman out there.
That said, Moro's forces scouting out planets does make it likely that he would run into Frieza's empire at some point. Would be interesting to see Frieza get involved, since why the hell not at this point? Or Broly. Or heck, Frieza AND Broly.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 30, 2019 23:06:11 GMT
Well those chapters weren't that satisfying. So it seems GSB shielding Goku and Vegeta isn't part of the plan. At least not yet. Moro using a wish to free prisoners he could've freed on his own was...strange. Then Moro eats New Namek and Planet Zoon (of all places I wasn't expecting Pui Pui's to ever be mentioned again), Vegeta's off being jealous and everyone important being stronger than him a gain--even though he should be stronger than Goku already sans UI...thanks to his newest transformation which Goku doesn't have.I do think it's hilarious that Vegeta is mad that he can't win by punching really hard because his strength is being drained before he can punch his hardest though. So while I appreciate the effort I still don't think it'll end up anywhere other than a punchfest. Merus is pushing at the very least SS3, with Goku being motivated enough to go SSG on his ass. There's no reason even remnants of the Frieza Force should even exist if someone of this caliber is hanging around, to say nothing of Frieza himself. Even assuming that Merus is fairly young and wasn't around in Frieza's hey-day, it boggles the mind that he would have anything left to resurrect him with a SS3/SSG tier patrolman out there. That said, Moro's forces scouting out planets does make it likely that he would run into Frieza's empire at some point. Would be interesting to see Frieza get involved, since why the hell not at this point? Or Broly. Or heck, Frieza AND Broly.Such bluer transformation does not exist in the manga. Not that I blame you at all for not remembering, it's this unmemorable now so I understand the issue. And yes, at this point Freeza not getting involved or ending as a side casualty would be nothing short of plot negligence. |
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Post by Axalon on Aug 30, 2019 23:12:46 GMT
Well those chapters weren't that satisfying. So it seems GSB shielding Goku and Vegeta isn't part of the plan. At least not yet. Moro using a wish to free prisoners he could've freed on his own was...strange. Then Moro eats New Namek and Planet Zoon (of all places I wasn't expecting Pui Pui's to ever be mentioned again), Vegeta's off being jealous and everyone important being stronger than him a gain--even though he should be stronger than Goku already sans UI...thanks to his newest transformation which Goku doesn't have.I do think it's hilarious that Vegeta is mad that he can't win by punching really hard because his strength is being drained before he can punch his hardest though. So while I appreciate the effort I still don't think it'll end up anywhere other than a punchfest. Merus is pushing at the very least SS3, with Goku being motivated enough to go SSG on his ass. There's no reason even remnants of the Frieza Force should even exist if someone of this caliber is hanging around, to say nothing of Frieza himself. Even assuming that Merus is fairly young and wasn't around in Frieza's hey-day, it boggles the mind that he would have anything left to resurrect him with a SS3/SSG tier patrolman out there. That said, Moro's forces scouting out planets does make it likely that he would run into Frieza's empire at some point. Would be interesting to see Frieza get involved, since why the hell not at this point? Or Broly. Or heck, Frieza AND Broly.Such bluer transformation does not exist in the manga. Not that I blame you at all for not remembering, it's this unmemorable now so I understand the issue. And yes, at this point Freeza not getting involved or ending as a side casualty would be nothing short of plot negligence. It actually does exist in the manga. |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 30, 2019 23:25:04 GMT
Such bluer transformation does not exist in the manga. Not that I blame you at all for not remembering, it's this unmemorable now so I understand the issue. And yes, at this point Freeza not getting involved or ending as a side casualty would be nothing short of plot negligence. It actually does exist in the manga. Really? Wasn't it just the full power SSJBlue or whatever thing they did vs. Zamasu? Unless my memory is failing this bad in this regard (not that it would be impossible given my usual lack of interest) I don't remember it at all. There was no GoD tattoed Toppo, so when did this Bluer Vegeta happen? |
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Post by Axalon on Aug 30, 2019 23:39:35 GMT
It actually does exist in the manga. Really? Wasn't it just the full power SSJBlue or whatever thing they did vs. Zamasu? Unless my memory is failing this bad in this regard (not that it would be impossible given my usual lack of interest) I don't remember it at all. There was no GoD tattoed Toppo, so when did this Bluer Vegeta happen? Mastered SSB is what they used against Zamasu, with it's defining characteristic being that it has no aura. Goku pulls it out of his ass after Vegito de-fuses, with Vegeta getting it shortly after Zamasu was erased and using it on Beerus.  In the ToP, Vegeta gets really upset that Goku has once again surpassed him, while simultaneously realizing that he isn't suited for UI at all. This leads to him evolving his SSB state even further, which he uses on Jiren. Jiren notably says that it's the second strongest thing he's faced so far in the ToP (behind UIO Goku of course) and then summarily kicks his ass. Has a really flamelike aura a bit different from regular SSB auras.  |
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 30, 2019 23:42:22 GMT
Really? Wasn't it just the full power SSJBlue or whatever thing they did vs. Zamasu? Unless my memory is failing this bad in this regard (not that it would be impossible given my usual lack of interest) I don't remember it at all. There was no GoD tattoed Toppo, so when did this Bluer Vegeta happen? Mastered SSB is what they used against Zamasu, with it's defining characteristic being that it has no aura. Goku pulls it out of his ass after Vegito de-fuses, with Vegeta getting it shortly after Zamasu was erased and using it on Beerus. In the ToP, Vegeta gets really upset that Goku has once again surpassed him, while simultaneously realizing that he isn't suited for UI at all. This leads to him evolving his SSB state even further, which he uses on Jiren. Jiren notably says that it's the second strongest thing he's faced so far in the ToP (behind UIO Goku of course) and then summarily kicks his ass. Has a really flamelike aura a bit different from regular SSB auras. OH wow wtf. I wonder why they even bothered doing this since it has less impact than even the anime. This was never mentioned nor used in the Broly movie tho. Nor after it in Moro's saga. |
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