Dragon Ball Super Manga Thread (SPOILERS)

I always thought that was a bit weird of how DBS: Broly ignored both the anime and manga transformations. I suppose their reasoning behind this was to compromise between the fans of both mediums in order to cater to both into see the movie.

I've also heard some theories to why Goku and Vegeta didn't use any transformation above SSB. The most common one is that Broly would have just kept increasing his power in proportion to the power his opponents are using. Goku and Vegeta already saw how Broly just kept evolving as he fought, already overtaking their SSJ, SSG and SSB forms. Using Mastered SSB/SSB Kaioken/SSB Evolution would have made him too powerful, and could have drained their reserves enough for Goku to be unable to IT them to Piccolo.
Fusing into Gogeta was a better idea than using their last transformations because he exceeded Broly's LSSJ form. 

I just realized that Beerus and Whis must be closer than Moro's gang since he can just IT to Beerus' planet if he feels like it but can't sense Moro's minions because they're "too far away".



GO TO BEERUS AND WHIS YOU MORON.

I mean, do you honestly think BEERUS and WHIS would need to go full power for Goku to sense him when Gohan + Z Fighters like Roshi was enough for him to IT from there to Earth?

IT isn't even the only way for him to access it. Even if Beerus refused, he can always use the comm device Whis gave him to contact him. Beerus and Whis is absolutely a viable option.

So the new chapter is out.

Vegeta goes to Yardrat and they explain to him that their version of ki control is what allows them to do all their abilities. I expect we'll see a teleporting, multiplying, GIGANTIFYING Vegeta soon.

Goku meanwhile gets taken to another Time Chamber but one that's much less effective than the one on Earth (1 day = 3 days of training vs. 1 year), but that's just the prelude to Merus revealing that this whole time he hasn't even been using his full power. Merus is probably at least SSB level if not higher and has been concealing it all along. 




Of course, the fact that he wasn't splatted by Moro instantly in previous chapters was obviously a giveaway, but still it's nice to see a blatant confirmation.

The rest of the chapter is surprisingly about Piccolo, and how he's gotten incredibly soft and this softness is now the reason that Moro's forces are interested in Earth, with the big bad himself being interested depending on if his even tougher scouts survive Piccolo's wrath. So props to Toyotaro I guess for immediately distracting Moro with Earth so he wouldn't have to run into Frieza or Broly.

This was a nice chapter. Not action based, but it provided us with some answers to certain things and even gave us some new info about the Yardratians (not like we needed to know there were two types [did clear up the plot hole {for the Super Manga continuity} that was created when the Yardratian in the ToP looked like the non-canon Toei design and not the Toriyama design that these second type are]).

I like the new superior Ki Control methods that they Yardratians use; it's pretty cool actually that their method allows them to do many things like Instant Transmission, Gigantification, & Self-Duplication without them being actual techniques. Though I guess since Ki Control is required to do these things wouldn't that make them Ki Techniques? I guess that's a contradiction, but whatevs.

Honestly the rest of what I have to say is brought up in my below response to Axalon since I edited the above part in after responding to Axalon.




I'm responding to this portion of your post first cuz initially this was why I quoted it, but then I realized I wanted to discuss with you the other parts too.

I honestly don't think this shows Piccolo as becoming a big softie. Piccolo isn't a vigilante like most heroic characters in Western comics are. Piccolo just protects the Earth because he lives on it and is powerful enough to protect it from various threats. The only reason he approached those 3 was because he thought they might be related to the problem(s) Goku, Vegeta, and Buu were needed for in space. He wasn't exactly wrong about that persay since they were related to it somewhat since they'd been using their connection to Moro to get rich, but he didn't know that cuz they lied and said they had nothing to do with whatever it was Piccolo was talking about and were asking to be let go. Believing them when they said that while tied up doesn't mean he's gone soft cuz good people are inclined to believe others when they say something especially since they apologized for being the initial aggressor and said they'd leave Earth if he let them go. He let them go because he didn't see them as a threat to Earth with such low PLs. How was he to know that they were lying until Dende telepathically informed him that they were related to those events he thought they weren't related to? Also he's not a vigilante, so there was no reason for him to play space cop and turn them in to the Galactic Patrol for attacking him. Maybe a Piccolo from late DB or early DBZ might've killed them for attacking him, but he's no longer evil like that and had no reason to harm them, keep them detained, or turn them into the Galactic Patrol at least not until Dende telepathically told him to stop them from getting away.




I hope we don't see Vegeta using Gigantification as outside of crushing bones like Oozaru Vegeta did to Goku back in the day and the fact that Oozaru comes with a 10x, Gigantification doesn't really serve much usefulness in a fight and as Goku did with Piccolo during the 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi, it can actually be the opposite of helpful as it makes you a bigger and easier to hit target and in the case of Piccolo swallowing Kami it or if facing a more vicious or evil opponent, swallowing someone while much bigger can work against you since technically a person more willing to kill or inflict fatal or serious injuries could fuck you up from the inside if you're big enough to swallow them whole and don't chew them up when you decide to eat them or even if they decide to use your esophagus as a slide to further enter your body. Oh and if you think about how Cell used it versus Hirudegarn that isn't necessary against large opponents that don't have Hirudegarn's intagibility via smokification power AND even then I don't think Cell needed to do that and only likely did that cuz he thought it might be fun to use that power for likely the first time ever.

Wow I went off on a bit of a longer than intended explanation of why Gigantification could be tactically not a smart move. Anyways moving on, I could see maybe Vegeta find the Instant Transmission and Multiplication-Man Techniques to be useful, but I have a feeling that he'll likely create his own technique that will be helpful against Moro once he masters this much different, far superior Ki Control method that blows the standard Ki Control method outta the water. I wonder if this will create a plothole in Toyotaro's canon OR if he'll throw in a nugget of info that Goku didn't master this new method of Ki Control and only learned enough of it to be able to perform Instant Transmission and no other special techniques like Multiplication, Gigantification, or special other techniques like Vegeta is likely gonna use it to do.

OMK (Oh my Kami), I think I just figured out what Vegeta might do with this special Ki control that could/will help him defeat Moro and if I'm correct, I really really fucking hope that Toyotaro doesn't shit on Vegeta like Toriyama and actually has Vegeta be the one to defeat Moro. I think Vegeta might do something super simple with this superior Ki Control method and have it to where Moro's magic to drain his Ki doesn't work on Vegeta's Ki, so that way Vegeta can just fight Moro like normal with his Mastered SSJB and SSJB2 and his Ki attacks with no fear of Moro winning by leeching away his Ki &/or absorbing his Ki attacks. I have a feeling that if Moro couldn't absorb Vegeta's Ki that Vegeta with a little bit of training to boost his PL in SSJB2 could surpass Moro's PL and destroy him in a fight as long as it's done somewhere Moro couldn't absorb other powerful warriors energy or a planet's energy to surpass Vegeta PL-wise. BTW I know PL's are BS and that the anime even proved that, but I think if the PL is high enough above the opponent's PL and both fighters' fighting prowess are about the same then I think having more Ki energy in your body to use in a fight can and will make a difference as long as that higher level of power isn't obtained thru a form like SSJ3 that comes with a massive stamina drain that can make the power gain pointless if the fight takes too long. What makes me think this is because the anime and manga also proved this during the Frieza fight on Namek since even with inferior fighting prowess Frieza still humiliated pre-SSJ Goku in a fight and even survived a Spirit Bomb relatively unharmed (just took some time to reappear to allow a dramatic reveal that he was still alive). Goku's PL was 3 mil at full power (no Ki expended) and Frieza had a PL of 60 mil when fighting at 50% full power so that goes to show that a large enough gap in PL is enough to guarantee that you'll win a fight even if you aren't the more skilled martial artist (Frieza had no training in martial arts and Goku had years of martial arts training).[/div]



I like this reveal that HTCs exist on other planets and not just Earth and that they all don't have the same time dilation. There are two reasons that I like this. It shows that maybe Kami didn't create the HTC and that maybe a previous Guardian of Earth did, but even if he did, he likely learned how to do it while training to become the Guardian of Earth and didn't just create it because he's a Namekian and apparently Dragon Clan members that have mastered Magic Materialism to an advanced enough level can use it to create DBs and much more advanced things like maybe HTCs (though Toyotaro at least seems to be hinting that it's creation is not related to Kami being a Dragon Clan member though there is nothing to say that Magic Materialism doesn't play a part in the creation of one). Also the way Meerus talks about his planet's HTC (I'm assuming this is his home planet as his power being so high and the existence of this HTC seem to have some connection and I'm not implying such a minor difference in time has anything to do with why his PL is as high as it is) seems to imply that it doesn't have a 2 day per person per lifetime limit and that seems to imply that maybe the only reason Kami or the previous Guardian who created Earth's HTC only did so to prevent people from aging too much in such a short time via entering too often since most likely the only people to train in Earth's HTC would be humans and humans have such limited lifetimes and therefore overuse of the Chamber could age them too much relative to the amount of time that would pass in the outside world. The alteration of the rules on the new HTC and it's creation in the first place (maybe Dende created a whole new HTC and didn't just fix the door) does kinda make one think the HTC was created like that cuz Dende is a Dragon Clan member, but that's not necessarily true if it's created thru Magic Materialism and the method to create one using Magic Materialism is taught to Guardians of Earth since Popo could've very well trained Dende to know all the things a Guardian of Earth knows since Popo seems to have been on the Lookout 2 or more Generations of Guardian's of Earth and therefore would likely know what training a Guardian needs to receive AND possibly might exist as entity who can help many generations of Guardian since humans have such short lifetimes and a being that doesn't have such a limited lifetime would be the perfect attendant to multiple generations of Guardians.



I'm not sure if that is a big give away that he's at least SSJB levels of power that he wasn't splatted by Moro as Moro probably wasn't using full power and didn't Meerus only step in to save Goku and Vegeta and then immediately have them make a swift getaway (it's been two or 3 months since that chapter and I am a little vague and may be misremembering certain events)? Anyways I had a theory that he may not be even SSJ3 powerwise, but just speedwise, but this latest chapter at the very least reveals that he's at least SSJ3 powerwise too AND seems to possibly hint that Moro's whole species/race has such high levels of power and the reason Meerus didn't singlehandedly defeat the Frieza Forces long ago is that there is some reason his people keep their high PLs a secret, so he couldn't show he was stronger than Frieza so he didn't reveal to his GP superiors that he could singlehandedly stop Frieza's reign of terror (I wonder if that was hard for him to not reveal his people's secret about being massively powerful so he could save the Galaxy; I'd imagine if one thing haunts his dreams related to his work as a GP member it's that he didn't stop Frieza and his forces years or maybe even decades earlier than Frieza's reign of terror was put on ice by Goku defeating Frieza on Namek and Future Trunks killing both Frieza and Cold).




Well this does solve that potential issue since it's likely his second scouting party is gonna lose too and therefore he'll likely go there himself to see if it's worth snacking on. Oh and I like how this happening brings the story back to defending Earth though maybe Toyotaro didn't really need to do that since Goku and Vegeta were already invested in defeating Moro, but whatever, if it works it works and it does keep Frieza out of the story though it's not like that was actually necessary due to the fact that Frieza if he's back in the Planet Trading business probably wouldn't like Moro eating worlds that Frieza's forces could conquer and sell and therefore he'd probably want to help the good guys defeat Moro since it would've served his best interests if Moro wasn't eating prime real estate. As for Broly, I actually don't think that would be an issue since I have a feeling that worlds that are toxic and contain very little life like Vampa does would not be planets high up on Moro's list of devouring, so it's likely he wouldn't've run into Broly regardless and it's likely that Toriyama and Toei have requested that Broly not be used yet in the Super manga as Toeiyama likely doesn't want Broly to be involved in the manga or the anime for a while to come and he's therefore likely off limits to appear in the manga until Toeiyama gives the approval for him to appear in the manga.

Oh okay. I guess you were right and I wasn't thinking clearly on that subject matter for some reason.



Yeah, I guess it isn't, but Oozaru is a little different from Piccolo's Gigantification and this kind since Oozaru came with a 10x PL Multiplier and was only really majorly useful against Goku for that power increase and it's size allowing Vegeta to crush Goku in his hands and attempt to squash him with his foot. The reason the power boost was so helpful was cuz those were the days when PLs were so low that 10x stronger was a huge deal and also because Vegeta was already at a higher PL than Goku who had to use Kaioken to compensate, but was so tired at this point that I'm pretty sure his body couldn't even handle a Kaioken x2. Sure Vegeta was somewhat spent when he decided to go Oozaru and that's honestly why he did go Oozaru so he can regain a massive PL advantage over Goku and take advantage of some of the size aspects to it that were really only advantageous cuz Goku was in a weakened state due to overusing the Kaioken.



Okay I still think that in the room he wasn't even going to SSJ3 levels of power and was just using his Ki manipulation to up his speed to SSJ3 tier. I think this should be possible if you aren't disguise your PL way too low because using Ki to go beyond the human glass ceiling works by manipulating your Ki to improve your stats, so it should be possible with Ki manipulation to choose to amplify one stat more than others. When he fought Goku in the Galactic Patrol HQ room, he was mostly dodging and using fighting moves that seem to work well against stronger &/or bigger foes so it's likely he wasn't all the way to SSJ3 PL wise and only speed-wise. Alternatively he could've potentially even been using UI himself to dodge so successfully and attack at just the right opportunity.

As for not being concerned when Goku was starting to go SSJG, it's possible that he knew the room couldn't handle such a thing and therefore they'd have to end the sparring session there AND it's not like it's a fight to the death cuz it's just a simple sparring match so even if SSJG Goku would've far surpassed him in terms of power, who cares since it's just a simple sparring match and not a life or death battle or anything like that?



That doesn't work to imply that he could be an Angel in hiding since even Roshi knew about UI in the manga. Roshi used either UI itself or something close enough to UI to help Goku figure out how to use UI against Jiren. To me, it seems like UI isn't some super top secret ability exclusively known about only by the Angels and GoDs in the manga Super continuity, but instead just some really difficult highest of the highest tiers of martial arts mastery that Angels seem to be able to use naturally or learn easily and then taught to the GoDs by their Angel attendants, but even then the GoDs have difficulty learning and mastering it since it's such a highest of highest tier of martial arts mastery and straight up mastery of the body beyond the second glass ceiling using Ki manipulation.

I honestly never even considered him to be an Angel in hiding as to me that thought never occurred to me likely cuz I know that Roshi knew about UI in the ToP and helped Goku access that power in the ToP for his fight against Jiren. I really fucking hope he's not an Angel in hiding cuz I prefer my theory about his whole species being powerhouses that some reason decide to not reveal their true power to the greater Universe for whatever reason(s) they may have for keeping it a secret.