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Post by Ashanark on Dec 1, 2020 20:54:45 GMT
Moro is Dragon Ball's nadir. I can't think of an official DB arc lower-quality than this.
The Moro arc is fascinating to compare with the Majin Rebellion, since both reveal flaws in their respective authors' writing which were present all along, but never to such a great extent. They make many of the same mistakes, but in different ways. With Toyotaro, I've often seen a lack of meaningful character moments or arcs, lots of convoluted logic and characterization, lack of continuity, recycled scenes and plots, and perhaps most frustratingly, a tendency to draaaaaaaaaaaaag thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiings ouuuuuuuuuuuuut far longer than they should be. All of these flaws are at their worst in Moro.
In effect, Moro saga is a Frankenstein's monster of better-executed scenes from other arcs--and now, in the case of Goku's susanoo, other franchises. It proves the point which has been on many people's minds (first really starting in Buu saga, from my experience) that Dragon Ball's manner of storytelling is running up against diminishing returns. Toyotaro tries his darndest to create some tension but simultaneously cannot--or dares not--threaten the Status Quo, and basically everything that happens is Strictly Formula: Goku wins, Vegeta jobs, everyone else is fodder, nothing is lost except characters introduced for the arc.
The impression I get, in fact, is that of an author who has no clue where he's supposed to go and is desperately scrambling for things to do... which explains why this arc meanders the way it does. If DBZ is two 6-year olds playing with action figures, then Moro arc is a 6-year old marooned at Grandma's house for eight hours and having to entertain himself. Truly, who could've ever predicted this arc would've ended with a Goku megazord headbutting a planet-sized Moro?
Some positives:
-- It's nice to see Uub again, and portrayed as relevant.
-- Fat Buu's fight against Moro.
-- Gohan and Piccolo's combined Kamehameha/SBC, and their counter SBC.
-- Goku flying through Moro's fists.
-- All things considered, Merus is probably the most meaningful one-shot character we've seen in DBS.
Some of the concepts, though meh, could've still worked in theory, but overall the execution was very poor. To me, DBS: Broly is still the best thing to come out of the franchise in the past decade. Between BoG and Broly, the best part of DBS is still the U6 tournament.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Dec 12, 2020 7:18:22 GMT
Moro is Dragon Ball's nadir. I can't think of an official DB arc lower-quality than this. The Moro arc is fascinating to compare with the Majin Rebellion, since both reveal flaws in their respective authors' writing which were present all along, but never to such a great extent. They make many of the same mistakes, but in different ways. With Toyotaro, I've often seen a lack of meaningful character moments or arcs, lots of convoluted logic and characterization, lack of continuity, recycled scenes and plots, and perhaps most frustratingly, a tendency to draaaaaaaaaaaaag thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiings ouuuuuuuuuuuuut far longer than they should be. All of these flaws are at their worst in Moro. In effect, Moro saga is a Frankenstein's monster of better-executed scenes from other arcs--and now, in the case of Goku's susanoo, other franchises. It proves the point which has been on many people's minds (first really starting in Buu saga, from my experience) that Dragon Ball's manner of storytelling is running up against diminishing returns. Toyotaro tries his darndest to create some tension but simultaneously cannot--or dares not--threaten the Status Quo, and basically everything that happens is Strictly Formula: Goku wins, Vegeta jobs, everyone else is fodder, nothing is lost except characters introduced for the arc. The impression I get, in fact, is that of an author who has no clue where he's supposed to go and is desperately scrambling for things to do... which explains why this arc meanders the way it does. If DBZ is two 6-year olds playing with action figures, then Moro arc is a 6-year old marooned at Grandma's house for eight hours and having to entertain himself. Truly, who could've ever predicted this arc would've ended with a Goku megazord headbutting a planet-sized Moro? Some positives: -- It's nice to see Uub again, and portrayed as relevant. -- Fat Buu's fight against Moro. -- Gohan and Piccolo's combined Kamehameha/SBC, and their counter SBC. -- Goku flying through Moro's fists. -- All things considered, Merus is probably the most meaningful one-shot character we've seen in DBS. Some of the concepts, though meh, could've still worked in theory, but overall the execution was very poor. To me, DBS: Broly is still the best thing to come out of the franchise in the past decade. Between BoG and Broly, the best part of DBS is still the U6 tournament. Moro saga would have worked really well as a one-shot 90's movie and this would have fixed the dragging out problem which IMO was the most jarring. Broly's movie was good because it was a combination of concepts from 3 of the best 90's movies and worked in this short movie format. |
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Post by Azoth on Dec 25, 2020 14:49:15 GMT
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Post by Azoth on Jan 20, 2021 23:41:40 GMT
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Post by darrieloni on Jan 21, 2021 21:25:17 GMT
The Oozaru from Granolah's nightmare has the same scar on his cheek that Bardock does.
Since that is most likely Bardock, if Granolah saw his base form, then he won't react well to seeing Goku
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Post by thebritwriter on Jan 21, 2021 21:28:55 GMT
We may get the weird scenario where Frieza has to be saved in this arc.
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Post by squirz96 on Jan 21, 2021 21:44:47 GMT
I hope this won't go downhill. Moro saga started also strongly but after midpoint quality dropped of it. I have no idea what this phenonema is called but Super and it's arcs are cursed with it.
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Post by Azoth on Feb 19, 2021 21:30:48 GMT
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Post by squirz96 on Feb 21, 2021 7:53:16 GMT
Positives:
Lore is being expanded.
Possible hint of future enemy?
Negative:
I am disappointed that hinted technique was indeed Hakai and not just some sort unseen power. Well, I guess Beerus considers Vegeta to be plausible successor.
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Post by Jason9000 on Feb 21, 2021 14:12:21 GMT
Positives: Lore is being expanded. Possible hint of future enemy? Negative: I am disappointed that hinted technique was indeed Hakai and not just some sort unseen power. Well, I guess Beerus considers Vegeta to be plausible successor. This sums up my thoughts on the chapter. Love that the lore is being expanded. Although I find Beerus whole line of “Before creation comes destruction” to be selfish...no that’s it. Maybe paradoxical. I can’t quite think of a proper word right now. What I mean is that in order to destroy there has to be something created in the first place. This ‘catchphrase’ has been around since the Xenoverse games when you pick him as a character, makes him look more like a selfish asshole now that it’s canon to the manga. Now it’s not some silly phrase from the games to make him sound cocky. I’ve mentioned in the past how I loathe Beerus as a character and this chapter just reinforces my apathy for him. |
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Post by squirz96 on Feb 22, 2021 1:27:13 GMT
Positives: Lore is being expanded. Possible hint of future enemy? Negative: I am disappointed that hinted technique was indeed Hakai and not just some sort unseen power. Well, I guess Beerus considers Vegeta to be plausible successor. This sums up my thoughts on the chapter. Love that the lore is being expanded. Although I find Beerus whole line of “Before creation comes destruction” to be selfish...no that’s it. Maybe paradoxical. I can’t quite think of a proper word right now. What I mean is that in order to destroy there has to be something created in the first place. This ‘catchphrase’ has been around since the Xenoverse games when you pick him as a character, makes him look more like a selfish asshole now that it’s canon to the manga. Now it’s not some silly phrase from the games to make him sound cocky. I’ve mentioned in the past how I loathe Beerus as a character and this chapter just reinforces my apathy for him. One of more frustrating thing that comes from the fandom. Ofc not all of them but some are saying that because Beerus "ordered" to destroy planet Vegeta Freeza did so. Making look like Beerus is some kind of master manipulator who pulls the strings and is some kind of a shadow emperor - a puppet master. While in reality Freeza did not because Beerus "ordered" but he wanted for his own gain and pleasure. Him suggesting to Vegeta that Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta because he ordered him to do so is factually incorrect. |
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Post by Jason9000 on Feb 22, 2021 2:12:43 GMT
This sums up my thoughts on the chapter. Love that the lore is being expanded. Although I find Beerus whole line of “Before creation comes destruction” to be selfish...no that’s it. Maybe paradoxical. I can’t quite think of a proper word right now. What I mean is that in order to destroy there has to be something created in the first place. This ‘catchphrase’ has been around since the Xenoverse games when you pick him as a character, makes him look more like a selfish asshole now that it’s canon to the manga. Now it’s not some silly phrase from the games to make him sound cocky. I’ve mentioned in the past how I loathe Beerus as a character and this chapter just reinforces my apathy for him. One of more frustrating thing that comes from the fandom. Ofc not all of them but some are saying that because Beerus "ordered" to destroy planet Vegeta Freeza did so. Making look like Beerus is some kind of master manipulator who pulls the strings and is some kind of a shadow emperor - a puppet master. While in reality Freeza did not because Beerus "ordered" but he wanted for his own gain and pleasure. Him suggesting to Vegeta that Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta because he ordered him to do so is factually incorrect. I think that’s one of Toriyama’s retcons. I remember after Beerus was introduced in Battle of Gods back in 2013, he decided to involve Beerus in every convoluted event in the series. Frieza blowing up Planet Vegeta? No that wasn’t fear of the Super Saiyan. It was Beerus telling him to do it AND the story of a Super Saiyan God along with the Super Saiyan. Dinosaurs wiped out? That was Beerus. No wait he actually failed as we still see dinosaurs running around because Beerus is both incompetent and somehow the best fighter of the gods of destruction in the manga despite sleeping for centuries. Elder Kai locked in the Z sword? It was an evil sorcerer that was afraid of the Elder Kai’s Unlock Potential technique that could be used to create a powerful warrior! No it was just Beerus throwing a hissy fit after an important meeting between the Supreme Kais actually discussing how to do their jobs. He couldn’t get away with blowing up the Sacred World of the Kais so he....somehow locked him in the Z sword despite showing no magical ability at all. But it’s okay because Beerus’s food pr0n-I mean love of food makes him a whacky, silly character. That hides how he and most of the other gods and angels are perfectly fine genociding planets to satisfy a vague ‘mortal level’ of a being that has the mentality of a five year old that has the power to wipe out the multiverse and not understand why that’s wrong. Remember kiddos, it’s all about keeping the Universes in balance! So long as you like food and are ‘really strong’ it’s okay. |
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Post by Andres on Mar 18, 2021 15:13:24 GMT
mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1009016
Okay. New chapter is out.
And while nothing much happened, I really liked it. I like exposition, lore and character development. I enjoyed it
Also, Granollah? Nice. I'll wait till everyone is up to date before talking or spoiling anything. But I do have some... questions for everyone to discuss, regarding his abilities.
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Post by Azoth on Mar 20, 2021 20:21:41 GMT
That has all the pages, in case the other link cuts off at 27.
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Post by Azoth on Apr 20, 2021 21:48:38 GMT
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Post by Jason9000 on Apr 20, 2021 23:14:54 GMT
I like them as well. Much more crafty than other villains of the past. It’s been a while since we’ve seen villains that can manipulate the heroes for their own goals. I’m also glad that Whis finally shut down the debate of Ultra Instinct being a technique and not a transformation like stated way back in the Revival of Frieza arc and the beginning of the Tournament of Power. To this day I’ve seen people argue what it is. Goku is stuck in the mindset that it is one and he can’t easily break out of thinking that way. Glad he still has some struggles. I was afraid the end of the Moro arc was setting him up to no longer struggle with the technique. |
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Post by supergojita3 on May 4, 2021 2:51:56 GMT
so far I read the dbs manga to kill off some boredom, not so much of its awesome action or adventuring.
so far most of the threats weren't god ki fueled demi gods or some kind of actual threat that couldn't be beaten using tactics.
the buu saga goku was all gung ho on using fusion, even suggesting fusion with gohan as well as vegeta. now he's against using it at all unless its a fan service movie or the opponent is using fusion.
plus he was all about raising the future to take on threats, now he's like "fuck those guys, gimme the strong guys to fight!" as bad as the buu saga was, at least it did have some emotional growth and maturity for goku, even if it did regress at points. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
and you'd think gohan would have learned after cell and buu to train some, maybe not as much as goku or vegeta but some. and he has shenron if he needs a special chamber, like make a gravity room with books and office supplies that can handle the huge gravity so he can sit in 100x gravity and do office stuff or read a book. then have safety things in place in case videl or satan walk in and don't get crushed.
even walking in intense gravity would add a few points and keep in shape.
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Post by Azoth on May 21, 2021 11:00:08 GMT
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Post by Azoth on Jun 20, 2021 16:01:03 GMT
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Post by godjacob on Jun 20, 2021 17:25:26 GMT
Not gonna lie...that might be the most clever use of the clone technique I've ever seen in the series. I'm liking Granolah more and more.
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