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Post by Teh Jammah on Mar 19, 2017 1:22:32 GMT
It's amazing how a few minor changes here and there make everything so much better. Like Vegeta learning SSG (somehow, could admittedly have used more explanation)... or Goku grabbing the wrong thing for the seal (rather than straight up forgetting it). Let's see how they do the Vegito twist...
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Post by Xeno Black on Mar 19, 2017 3:14:32 GMT
Gowasu surviving because of Black missing his vitals is pure BS. I would rather have him die than seeing such a cliche cop-out such as that. At the very least Shin attempted to avenge him only to get sidelined by Zamasu in a single kick. He earns points for trying no matter how pathetic he was. For the second time Trunks fight with Black was practically skipped almost completely. I dislike things such as that since we could have witness another grand fight no matter how one-sided it was. It reminds me of the bs that happened in DBM when kaioken Goku's battle against Captain Ginyu in U8 was skipped also. SMH Vegeta's battle intro with Black was superb since it kind of reminded me when Vegeta fought Semi-Perfect Cell for some reason. But when Vegeta transformed into a Super Saiyan God, I love the battle animation between him and Black as SSJR. But the most intriguing part was Vegeta switching from God to Blue in a instant to get an edge over Black. Does this remind anyone about a certain thing in DBM: Anyways Goku performing a successful mafuba on Zamasu was beautiful to behold. But similar to the anime, it fails because Goku brought with him the wrong tag (still better than the anime when they forgot it). Go figure... Back to the fight, Goku powers down to the basic Super Saiyan God and pummels on Zamasu who regenerates again and again while also getting hit philosophically by Goku (of all people lol). With his emotions running amok, it almost appears he was about to turn on Black, but his counterpart convinces him to fuse (much to Goku catching on and trying to stop them). But in the end, Fusion Zamasu has been born and is read to fuck shit up, much to the horror of Goku and Vegeta.
Overall this chapter receives a 5 /10 since there were many things I did not enjoy. Gowasu's survival, Trunks skipped battle, cliche mafuba fail (was cool in action), Fusion Zamasu being created with Black being in Rose (I want to see Merged Zamasu in base dammit...) and the fact that Black will not get a proper conclusion in the manga before fusing / dying irks me to no end. To my complete disappointment it is basically following the anime almost completely despite some minor differences, which scares me on how this whole thing is going to conclude. If the next (or two) chapters have God Goku and Vegeta fusing to become either Gogeta or Vegito, defuse after beating him up, Trunks mopping the floor with Fusion Zamasu, followed by Future Zeno arriving to kill of Zamasu's essence will piss me off to high hell. I still have faith in Toyotaro that such a scenario will never happen, but this chapter questions my resolve in him. At the very least Vegeta's battle with Black was satisfying along with the cool twist of switching between Red and Blue instantly. Plus Goku in this incarnation still has a smudge of his Z self in him, thus he is not a complete fool and has moments of deep thought (trying to change Zamasu) and action when necessary (like trying to stop Fusion Zamasu's birth). These few aspects in this chapter highlighted it for me, but unfortunately the flaws outweigh the pros this time around. Hopefully the next chapter will be much better in content..
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Mar 19, 2017 3:33:05 GMT
Although how Vegeta is kicking Black's ass (Tear drop down my eyes XD) it's kinda Bullshit that we're hearing the same "Just use a stronger form the instant he attacks." But I admit it makes more sense than what happened in the anime where Vegeta just got vaguely stronger and Black somehow couldn't keep up.
As for the seal, I prefer a normal explanation that Goku grabbed the wrong one bc face it, in life and death, you may be careless... but you ain't forgetful.
Oh and Future Zamasu finally standing up to Black Instead of being the submissive one is finally something to set him apart from just another "Lackey"
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Mar 19, 2017 8:28:40 GMT
Loved this chapter! Also, an interesting argument (TL;DR) in the comment section of Mangastream, that the reason why Trunks was powerful in the anime is due to him being Hybrid Saiyan and also having enormous potential just like Gohan. (Did we have this discussion? about hybrid and all?) But it still doesn't make sense how his SS2 transformation was stronger than SSB ( SS1 + God Ki) And that SS2
Also, loved the way SSG was used here. Vegeta and Goku are rocking here!
Agree with Xeno on Gowasu's death. Give a point to Black ya'll! He should have a kill here..would demotivate the bad guys..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 21:47:37 GMT
That was a lot better than the anime! -Vegeta switching between SSJG and SSJB made a lot more sense than him just getting really strong from training. In the original manga, they didn't have any significant gains from training unless it was a new training method or they obtained a few transformation/technique. Goku and Vegeta trained together for three years before the U6 tournament so it didn't make sense that Vegeta could improve that much on his own within a year. In the unfinished draft for Toyble's AF, he had Vegeta use a combination of a mastered max USSJ, SSJ3, and SSJ4 to fight Xicor. It was explained that USSJ specialized in strength, SSJ3 specialized in speed, and SSJ4 had the best stamina and energy so he kept switching back and forth to dodge and attack. That's probably where he got that idea but I'm pretty that came out after DBM Trunks used a similar combo against Vegeta so maybe he was inspired by DBM! -Goku accidentally grabbing the wrong seal wasn't as bad as forgetting it but he should've at least taken the time to look at it first XP. Since it didn't work in both the anime and manga, I assume Toriyama wrote that the Mafuba fails and each writer was free to decide how they want to do it. -I liked that they acknowledged that Zamasu wasn't a threat to them without his immortality. Unless I remember it wrong, I recall him putting up a fight against the SSJBs in the anime. -I'm glad Goku Black is gone. When I heard the idea of an Evil Goku, I really tried to give it the benefit of the doubt but it's honestly more contrived than any Evil Goku I've seen in fanfiction. Usually it's a Goku who was possessed by some evil entity or wizard, hits his head and reverts back to being Kakarotto, or an AU where he never hit his head. In DBS, it's a god who traveled between two universes to gather planet-sized Dragonballs and wish to switch bodies with Goku who at best was the 27th strongest being in the multiverse after all the Gods of Destruction, Angels, Grand Priest, and Zeno. They went to such great lengths to make this fan service happen. It also makes Zamasu look like an idiot for going to the trouble of gathering the Dragonballs and NOT consider switching with someone stronger. -I hope Trunks at least gets a happy ending. That was another thing that ruined this saga for me. It brought back a great character like RoF did with Freeza and then shafted them in the end for the sake of cheap fan service. I really believe the saga would've been more entertaining if they took away the time travel and Goku Black and had it take place in the present to involve other gods. It was a waste of potential in my opinion.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 20, 2017 6:27:20 GMT
I thought Goku was just going to miss like Roshi did with Piccolo. I don't understand why they don't draw the seal on the pot itself rather than use paper seal to stick on there. Goku grabbing the wrong one still felt like a real bone headed move on his part and was still used as an excuse to prolong things. If Goku had just missed, because he still hadn't perfected the technique it would accomplished the same thing and give the good guys a trump card to use against Zamasu later to defeat him.
Vegeta achieving Super Saiyan God was awesome to see. He's been skipping forms left and right, yet somehow is still keeping up with Goku. Having Vegeta go back to obtain an earlier form worked for me as did Vegeta use Goku's trick to win. Goku has always been the more innovative fighter and its why he has always stayed ahead of Vegeta. Vegeta is straightforward and less creative. I like how SSG is better balanced even if it is less powerful than SSGSS. I approve of SSGSS/SSB being taxing on the body and power, since it gives legitimate reason for why they don't just pull them out all the time. It does make use of SSG instead of having it being a one and done deal. The switching back and forth is a cool strategy that is being used in more DB stuff. It is such a simple concept that works.
I can understand why SSG was used over Kaioken in the manga. It does fit with what it established. The longer SSB is used the more energy it saps from its user. Vegeta's fight with Black last time had the effect of Vegeta losing more power as the fight dragged on while Black kept getting healed and unlocked more of Goku's power. The gap in power is less obvious and outside factors are what determined Vegeta's loss beyond just simply being weaker. Adopting Goku's strategy of using SSG to conserve energy than using SSB to attack helped out more. As a result Black not knowing that and using SSGSS form means he was likely feeling the effects as well without realizing it so Vegeta took advantage of it.
Gowasu's fake out death was a cop out I didn't expect or get. We all knew it would be undone with the magic reset button with the Dragon Balls. We might as well have kept the impact of the touching death scene intact for as long as we could before it was undone anyway. I do think we're starting to see limits here when manga is forced to follow Toriyama draft. As much as he has been working to make all these things work for the greater story (and succeeding IMO) there are some turds even he can't make into gems like Goku needing to be forgetful and aloof at times. I expect Vegetto to appear and fusion still having one hour limit that is eaten up more by SSB again and Trunks will need deus ex machina to stop him before the Zeno button comes into play. Those are probably Toriyama's main ideas that he has to execute no matter what.
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Mar 24, 2017 15:23:17 GMT
Off Topic - Just asking, how many here follow the One Punch Man - original webcomic and/or the manga version? ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) (No, not making any threads for discussion just general knowledge)
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Post by Android 13 on Mar 24, 2017 15:49:16 GMT
Off Topic - Just asking, how many here follow the One Punch Man - original webcomic and/or the manga version? ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) (No, not making any threads for discussion just general knowledge) This will go in another thread, but I do. I follow the manga, and am waiting for the second season!
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Post by Axalon on Mar 24, 2017 22:30:41 GMT
Off Topic - Just asking, how many here follow the One Punch Man - original webcomic and/or the manga version? ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) (No, not making any threads for discussion just general knowledge) ONE PUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/arbHBoiUWUgmc/giphy.gif)
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Post by Xeno Black on Mar 25, 2017 4:13:37 GMT
I have reread the first five chapters of the manga and I will give you my honest opinion about them. You see, I feel like that the anime was better overall compared to the manga in terms of pacing (The anime shows Beerus waking up, filler activities, landing on Earth at Bulma's birthday party, initial conflict, extended God Goku fight, etc) which the manga unfortunately suffers at. However the manga does have some ups on the anime (better SSJ3 Goku vs Beerus, SSJ3 Gotenks vs Beerus, Vegeta using the Heat Dome Attack instead of Galick Gun on Beerus, Goku remaining a Super Saiyan God throughout his fight with Beerus while ending the battle with a kamehameha to his sun attack, Champa and Vados appearing, etc) which is always nice to see. But again the pacing (God Goku's fight felt short) and forced dialogue (you can tell for plot reasons that Beerus told Goku about the 12 universes and Whis being his master just because the author said so) was its greatest weaknesses. Granted the artwork is fantastic (minus a few background character shots), but the storyline was basically a shortened version of the anime though the few good differences (and mangastreams funny translation) made it good on its own. Thus the anime > manga for the God of Destruction saga (though the Battle of Gods movie is still the best in my eyes). While not terrible, but is average compared to the anime by this point.
Also I will like to mention that I hated it that the moment it goes into the Universe 6 tournament, you can clearly see Toyotaru mentioning the complete omit of the Golden Freeza saga. While some may like this since the storyline can go on, but I hated this since that is less material for the manga. Honestly Toyotaru only needed to include the three Resurrection F one-shots and draw the entire Golden Frieza fight to be done. I rather have the complete story for the manga adaptation than always going to the anime and movie for it. That way more power is given to the manga to make it stand out even more (like having SSJGod Goku fighting Frieza briefly with SSJBlue Vegeta killing him). Little ideas like this make all the difference in my book.
Also in chapter one Beerus makes a interesting statement that may be related to the infamous Mortal Level: ![](http://img.mangastream.com/cdn/manga/107/2831/013.png) Based on Beerus's dialogue, it appears his little pep talk to Goku that he does not destroy planets at random during the end of the exhibition match may not be farfetch. Granted the inhabitants did try to poison him with Beerus later attempting to destroy Earth initially (a major / important planet for Universe 7 IMO which would lower the ML if destroyed), but you can clearly see that Beerus wanted to destroy it from the get-go since it most likely wasn't contributing anything significant to the universe. Perhaps Beerus is not the lazy bum as we thought, though his sleeping habits does affect the overall quality of the universe negatively. Food for thought... Anyways once I finish all of the chapters up the 10, I will post my honest opinion about them. Until then, stay trill. Edit: Fuck it that picture's "jpg" will not work for shit no matter how many times I fix it. But to clarify it was in chapter one, page 14 where Beerus says "Yea, we couldn't let those kind of guys just go on living forever". Based on said quote, it could relate to the Mortals level though it is still up to debate.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 25, 2017 4:48:58 GMT
Only in Black's saga the manga gets considerably better than the Anime. And I truly mean this.
In the previous sagas there are not too many differences overall.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 17:36:57 GMT
Xeno BlackTo be honest the first thing that lead me to prefer the manga over the anime was that it skipped RoF ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) . I felt the only redeemable thing about that movie was the animation quality. Take that away and we're left with the RoF saga which I consider the worst saga in the franchise. I'm glad Toyotaro skipped it because it would've been a waste of time to risk falling even more behind the anime for a saga that was basically filler. We could've gone from BoG to the Champa saga and it would've been a smoother transition in my opinion. I would've preferred if the narrator in the manga didn't mention anything about Freeza in that one panel so I could pretend it never took place in the manga and it was entirely anime filler ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) .
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Mar 26, 2017 17:45:41 GMT
It is not skipped. Its release was a bit botched and doesn't appear in the main issues of the manga, but there's a RoF manga done by Toyotaro as well, right after the movie was made.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 27, 2017 9:40:58 GMT
Both manga and anime starting with recaps of both films would have been better than either form retelling them. They don't really add anything new. Reading monthly manga that retold a movie I had mixed feelings over wasn't appealing to me. Slice of life episodes seemed to have worked better because it was at least new material that explored the characters in normal situations, but I remember everyone bitching and moaning in reviews for early Super about how long things were taking and most agreeing they barely did anything to improve on the original BoG film, especially since they dragged things out.
Dragon Ball Kai made due with just giving people a recap of the events of Goku's childhood in the first episode then jumped right into the Z portions. DB is a popular franchise, so I doubt even people in Japan hadn't seen Battle of Gods or Resurrection F in some form that people would have been lost by the new series. A basic recap would work to fill people in. If they had to work on the premise of redoing the films they could have planned them out to be different and had them turn into real story arcs that build up to them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 14:49:09 GMT
It is not skipped. Its release was a bit botched and doesn't appear in the main issues of the manga, but there's a RoF manga done by Toyotaro as well, right after the movie was made. I remember that one but I think that was just a promotional thing for the movie and unrelated to Toyotaro's DBS manga. In the 3-part RoF manga, Goku was using Saiyan Beyond God while that form doesn't seem to exist in the DBS manga and was replaced with the regular SSJGod. Both manga and anime starting with recaps of both films would have been better than either form retelling them. They don't really add anything new. Reading monthly manga that retold a movie I had mixed feelings over wasn't appealing to me. That was one reason why I preferred the manga version of the BoG saga. It was only four chapters so that would've been 4-5 episodes as an anime (including all those slice of life scenes at the beginning) and barely an hour longer than the original BoG film. That would've at least been better than taking a 90 minute and stretching it across 10+ episodes without really adding anything new.
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Post by R I P I R I U S on Mar 27, 2017 16:16:19 GMT
Both manga and anime starting with recaps of both films would have been better than either form retelling them. They don't really add anything new. Reading monthly manga that retold a movie I had mixed feelings over wasn't appealing to me. Slice of life episodes seemed to have worked better because it was at least new material that explored the characters in normal situations, but I remember everyone bitching and moaning in reviews for early Super about how long things were taking and most agreeing they barely did anything to improve on the original BoG film, especially since they dragged things out. Dragon Ball Kai made due with just giving people a recap of the events of Goku's childhood in the first episode then jumped right into the Z portions. DB is a popular franchise, so I doubt even people in Japan hadn't seen Battle of Gods or Resurrection F in some form that people would have been lost by the new series. A basic recap would work to fill people in. If they had to work on the premise of redoing the films they could have planned them out to be different and had them turn into real story arcs that build up to them. Right, the recaps would also entice first-time viewers to go and watch the movies as a whole. The retelling just spoiled it with bad animations in a few scenes.
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Post by Son Pan on Mar 27, 2017 22:04:59 GMT
@skar For me it was still bad, because I had to wait a month for every chapter that didn't do anything different. It cut things down to try to move them faster, but it still dragged to tell a story that was already given to us in a better format. It turned me off so much that I dropped the manga by the time Universe 6 Tournament started and only checked back in when the Black arc started and majority of DB fans praised it. For me BoG arc was like U17 special of DBM. R I P I R I U SFair point. I imagine they would make the same amount of money doing that way as well. It's DB. I seriously doubt people would have dropped it if they just had a recap giving them an overview. It's fairly easy to follow.
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Post by Xeno Black on Mar 28, 2017 3:48:56 GMT
Xeno Black To be honest the first thing that lead me to prefer the manga over the anime was that it skipped RoF ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) . I felt the only redeemable thing about that movie was the animation quality. Take that away and we're left with the RoF saga which I consider the worst saga in the franchise. I'm glad Toyotaro skipped it because it would've been a waste of time to risk falling even more behind the anime for a saga that was basically filler. We could've gone from BoG to the Champa saga and it would've been a smoother transition in my opinion. I would've preferred if the narrator in the manga didn't mention anything about Freeza in that one panel so I could pretend it never took place in the manga and it was entirely anime filler ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) . I perfectly understand lol. Due to me being a completionist (meaning I want everything to be available the moment it was mentioned), I want the read the entire F saga since it was mentioned in the actual comic. It's that damn single page in chapter 5 (or was it 6?) that showed everybody mentioning the Frieza arc really felt felt cheap since it was material that was teased to us, yet will never see under the light of day underneath Toyotaru's pen. Granted I would rather have the entire mention of the F saga omitted so that I could chalk it up as filler, but that luxury was robbed from us due to that single page. But again all Toyotaru had to due was add in the three Resurrection F 0ne-shots [as for Goku using the Saiyan Beyond God Form against Whis instead of the actual SSJGod, perhaps Toyotaru would change it in the manga] and simply draw the Golden Frieza fight which would be no more than 3 chapters tops (Goku Blue vs Golden Frieza, Frieza's death by Veget hopefully, with the final chapter showing Goku and Vegeta getting back to normal and training once again). Granted the story will lag a little more, but in the grand scheme of things, I would prefer this than having a manga rushing along in a vain attempt to surpass the anime. Granted the Resurrection F is not the best thing ever (I love the movie version though due to the fighting despite some major plot elements), but it still would have contributed to the manga considerably than skipping it entirely while giving us a cheap overview of the entire situation. At least that how I see it. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by Griffith on Apr 18, 2017 22:58:37 GMT
You thought it was Toeism? Wrong.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 18, 2017 23:44:13 GMT
You thought it was Toeism? Wrong. Seems like Merged Zamasu is being thrown under the bus with a time limit too (arguing he's not a real Kaioshin). And the entire "Purple Mutant Zamasu" was thrown into the bus as well.
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