??????
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 13:36:32 GMT
Well if it's bad and appears in both the anime and manga then I blame Toriyama but if it only appears in the anime then I blame Toei . But you have to admit Toei gets way more blame for what they get wrong than Toriyama. Worse yet they almost get no praise for the positives they do manage to add. Some of the best DB moments I can think of that were anime only scenes. For example Gohan's first Super Saiyan transformation was a small thing in the manga, but the anime added a lot to it. They made it emotional, character driven, and breakthrough for the character that Toriyama passed over. Both have their strengthens and weakness and I think it does get a unfair we are so quick to blame them for Super's flaws when Toriyama in recent years has shown he has changed his mind on certain characterizations or thinks up general ideas for Super to use. I agree that Toei gets more blame than Toriyama and that's why I said in the other DBS thread that fans would be less willing to defend DBS if Toriyama wasn't involved. I like to differentiate between the Toei that's working on DBS and the Toei that worked on the original. We assume it's the same company that's been working on Dragonball since the 80's and technically it's the same face but a lot has changed behind-the-scenes. When we look at the credits for DBS, many of the staff members are new to the franchise and have never worked on Dragonball before. That's why I was saying that the staff that worked on the original and GT probably would've handled the filler/anime-only content of DBS differently. I guess the difference is that I would consider something equally bad regardless if it came from Toei or Toriyama while a lot of fans seem to dismiss it if it came from Toei and then jump through all kinds of hoops trying to excuse it if it came from Toriyama. I would've done the same a few years ago and I remember when I used to try to come up with some forced in-universe excuse for a plothole in the manga. At some point I asked myself "would I really be doing this if it appeared in GT or DBM?". No, I would just say the author forgot something or that it's bad writing. Toriyama might be the original author but he's just a man and capable of the same mistakes any other writer could make. I don't know if the diehard DBS fans realize this but defending an idea only if it came from Toriyama but dismissing it if it came from Toei or a fanfic is actually MORE disrespectful to Toriyama. That's basically saying they hold Toriyama to a lower standard because they're willing to accept almost anything from him while being more critical if the same idea came from a different writer. Out of respect for Mr. Toriyama, I choose to hold him to the same standard as anyone else who is now writing Dragonball. @invaderjim The Goku Black saga ended up being a lot longer in the manga than we expected. I assumed it was going to end this month (also the month before) but now it looks like it's going to be at least another month.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 20, 2017 16:33:02 GMT
I stopped reading the manga at the start of Trunks' return so I could read it all in one sitting. Plus before I get into it there are 2, maybe 3 eps I wanna rewatch before I do. (comparisons) I have been a fan of Toyble's DBAF since it basically came out and denying myself his take on Super for bingeing purposes is startin to blue ball me bad coz I can almost sense it has to be bloody close to done by now, so basically, how long do you guys think it has before that saga wraps up? Cheers in advance. Hopefully not more than one chapter. Vegetto's already gone. I LOL when I remember Toyotaro said the Manga would be ahead of the anime in January.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2017 17:20:42 GMT
I re-downloaded his DBAF earlier and yea, after recalling the massive waits between chapter releases I wouldn't have exactly taken his word for it. Still shattered with how DBAF 'finished'. I'm either very retarded and can't find the rest of it so yeeeaaa.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Xeno Black on Apr 20, 2017 20:27:30 GMT
I re-downloaded his DBAF earlier and yea, after recalling the massive waits between chapter releases I wouldn't have exactly taken his word for it. Still shattered with how DBAF 'finished'. I'm either very retarded and can't find the rest of it so yeeeaaa. It is officially done. The moment when Goku appeared as a SSJ5 to fight Xicor, it was prematurely ended in favor of Heroes and Super.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Griffith on Apr 21, 2017 10:47:20 GMT
I'm not even sure why the hell Toyotaro even decided to unfuse Merged Zamasu, because Black is a complete and utter garbage villain in the manga. Especially compared to his anime counterpart.
|
|
??????
|
Post by R I P I R I U S on Apr 21, 2017 15:18:46 GMT
Perhaps he wanted to keep the retcon more "equal" in terms of what the Potaras are really meant for so that permanent fusion only applies to Official Kais. But yet again, they could have made it a Universe 10 rule whereas the Potaras of Universe 7 fuse permanently.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Andres on Apr 21, 2017 15:47:53 GMT
Perhaps he wanted to keep the retcon more "equal" in terms of what the Potaras are really meant for so that permanent fusion only applies to Official Kais. But yet again, they could have made it a Universe 10 rule whereas the Potaras of Universe 7 fuse permanently. That's actually not a bad idea. But that would force Gowasu to give them their earrings instead of Shin. And had he removed his Potara, he would've been sent back to his timeline by the Time Ring.
But the concept is really good: not all universes are equals and not all Potaras are equals either.
|
|
??????
|
Post by R I P I R I U S on Apr 21, 2017 16:28:33 GMT
Perhaps he wanted to keep the retcon more "equal" in terms of what the Potaras are really meant for so that permanent fusion only applies to Official Kais. But yet again, they could have made it a Universe 10 rule whereas the Potaras of Universe 7 fuse permanently. That's actually not a bad idea. But that would force Gowasu to give them their earrings instead of Shin. And had he removed his Potara, he would've been sent back to his timeline by the Time Ring.
But the concept is really good: not all universes are equals and not all Potaras are equals either.Exactly my thoughts. This would save us from getting mad at the retcon as Merged Zamasu's Potaras work differently. But you are right about Gowasu giving his Potara and getting sent back by the Time Ring. So again, we would sill have Vegito retcon. Oh! But if the different rule concept worked, Shin could point out that their Potaras don't have that condition! Boy, things would have been so different with Vegito in the battle royale. Edit: LOL then DB Super would just be the adventures of Vegito the Ultimate Saiyan. A lot of things would change uptil now and might be fun for the most part. I liked Vegito's DBM characterization and would have liked to see something fresh here. Best and worst of the duo.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 21, 2017 16:47:46 GMT
Is the full traslation of the manga already available? Some big info shit apparently happened and it needs a review.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Andres on Apr 21, 2017 16:49:03 GMT
Is the full traslation of the manga already available? Some big info shit apparently happened and it needs a review. Apparently it is on vix.com. I can't access it from my location. Mangafox (which is where I read it) still doesn't have it translated.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 21, 2017 16:49:55 GMT
I'm not even sure why the hell Toyotaro even decided to unfuse Merged Zamasu, because Black is a complete and utter garbage villain in the manga. Especially compared to his anime counterpart. Both Black and Zamasu in the manga seemed a lot better to me. No bullshit powers, no unexplained "muh power grows like DBM broly while fighting". Merged Zamasu also looks a lot better in the manga. I hated that retarded white halo behind him, along with all his stupid asspulled Naruto abilities and 2-face transformation. Also, if Merged Zamasu defused then there will be no need for a "Unexplained SSJblue level rage trunks" or "instant learned 10 people Spirit Sword". Not to mention it's more humilliating that supposed "supreme gods" are also restricted by mortal laws.
|
|
??????
|
Post by R I P I R I U S on Apr 21, 2017 16:56:52 GMT
It's not on mangastream yet?
|
|
??????
|
Post by Ashanark on Apr 21, 2017 17:22:18 GMT
One thing I like about the manga was that there's absolutely no contest between Vegito and Merged Zamasu, as it should be. The only time Zamasu even touched Vegito was when he grabbed his ankles, and even then you could argue Vegito let him do it so he could chop off Zamasu's arms for the troll-factor. I like Zamasu weaponizing katchin in battle. Looks pretty cool, and it's better than summoning some strange purple bird. Goku and Vegeta attempting to fight Merged Zamasu solo seemed filler-y, though. By now the two of them should know they aren't going to stand a chance. If they'd jumped straight to fusion, they might've resolved Zamasu this chapter. As to the Potara retcon... If Zamasu's fusion ends in a later chapter, or if Gowasu's right in that only Supreme Kai can have permanent fusion...there's still a way to headcanon Buu Saga Vegito being permanent. Ironically, it's similar to how DBM handled it: Elder Kai basically said "Okay, it's not right for mortals to use the Potara, but this is an emergency, so go ahead, you have permission." In DBS manga terms, we could say Elder Kai temporarily raised Goku to the rank of a Supreme Kai, meaning the fusion was permanent. (And he did give Goku his life, you remember. Goku might've still had some Supreme Kai energy to make the fusion work.) I'd much rather ignore the retcon entirely, but this is one way for me to accept it. Andres If Gowasu took his Potara off, would he really not be a Supreme Kai anymore, though? Zamasu is currently wearing Gowasu's earrings, yet Gowasu says he isn't a Kai. I'd like to think there's something more involved with becoming a Supreme Kai than just wearing the earrings. I don't have the facts to back this up, but I'd suppose even if Gowasu did donate his earrings, he'd still be able to use the Time Rings.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 21, 2017 17:24:33 GMT
Zamasu's full Kaioshin status is greatly restricted due to the absence of a life link with a Hakaishin. Gowasu is linked to the incompetent elephant, but Zamas wasn't linked to anyone.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Andres on Apr 21, 2017 17:36:37 GMT
Andres If Gowasu took his Potara off, would he really not be a Supreme Kai anymore, though? Zamasu is currently wearing Gowasu's earrings, yet Gowasu says he isn't a Kai. I'd like to think there's something more involved with becoming a Supreme Kai than just wearing the earrings. I don't have the facts to back this up, but I'd suppose even if Gowasu did donate his earrings, he'd still be able to use the Time Rings. I guess it's a bit sketchy. Zamas needed the Potara to use the Time Ring to go to the future with Gowasu to see the Babari. And once Zamas killed Gowasu and took the Potara for himself, he was able to use the Rings to do all his shenanigans (Super Dragon Balls, Goku's body, killing Mirai Gowasu and traveling to U7). The shenanigans he couldn't do without the earrings.
If we dig deep into logic, a lot of DB doesn't really make sense or it contradicts itself.
Edit: Although, now that I remember, I think Black's return to his timeline was because he was traveling to the PAST instead of the FUTURE, which Whis thought it was theoretically impossible (or unforgivable, don't remember now). In that case, forget everything we said.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 21, 2017 18:31:00 GMT
I am really waiting to at least see one acceptable English translation. I've read stuff said on kaizenshuu forum's, but it's really chaotic and is hard to discriminate between deranged complaining, entitlement, animu is bettur, toei vs. akira, toyotaro retraces too much panels, and really valuable info.
It's very hard to truly make sense out of it. Even sometimes the anime is hard to decipher (such as this mortal level BS).
Reading the Kaizenshuu thread was depressing. I think there's some serious symptoms of "Arc fatigue there". Black's saga had cool moments but its pacing felt so twisted it was really hard to put it effectively. Although the end was shitty and rushed, we all were glad it already ended. And now, 3 or 4 months later, we're still hearing of it (albeit with slight differences.)
Manga should have been released first, with a whole team, not only Toyotaro.
If we had seen none of this BS and lack of teamwork, an animated Toyotaro manga + some TOEI filler of the good kind + good soundtrack would have been awesome. It would also have been received better due to no Arc-fatigue.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Azoth on Apr 21, 2017 20:23:34 GMT
VIZ translation of chapter 23Anyway, I do like the anime interpretation of this bit better. Zamasu had bigger, more impressive attacks, and he had a colder, more superior demeanor than raving lunatic like here (until he turned into Bio Zamasu). Goku and Vegeta also weren't acting like this was a game, they were in legitimate danger and reacted appropriately, namely by attacking him at the same time rather than taking turns. Freeza's return, by contrast, was no real threat to either of them, once they figured out his weakness. Anyway, as for the big Potara Retcon, this just adds more questions. Zamasu used them first, but Vegeto is the first one to separate? If it's a matter of energy usage, then Zamasu should drop first, as Black was Super Saiyan Rose, and that should be draining him faster just by using it (unless I'm forgetting something.) Just have Shin tell Vegeta and Goku that they can separate later using the Dragonballs. For Buu, just say residual kaioshin magic bullshit. Gowasu may have had to do a ceremony to officially recognize Zamasu as a kaioshin, but the earrings are like the ID badge.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Griffith on Apr 21, 2017 23:55:04 GMT
I'm not even sure why the hell Toyotaro even decided to unfuse Merged Zamasu, because Black is a complete and utter garbage villain in the manga. Especially compared to his anime counterpart. Both Black and Zamasu in the manga seemed a lot better to me. No bullshit powers, no unexplained "muh power grows like DBM broly while fighting". Merged Zamasu also looks a lot better in the manga. I hated that retarded white halo behind him, along with all his stupid asspulled Naruto abilities and 2-face transformation. Also, if Merged Zamasu defused then there will be no need for a "Unexplained SSJblue level rage trunks" or "instant learned 10 people Spirit Sword". Not to mention it's more humilliating that supposed "supreme gods" are also restricted by mortal laws. But, Black and Zamasu also lost all of what made them entertaining in the anime, they don't work together, and Black especially lost what made him a good villian in the anime. In the anime Black was what you would call a smug super, Black never lost his composure even when something took him by surprise. When things went bad for anime Goku Black, he wouldn't throw the mother of all bitch fits like Cell, Freeza, Vegeta, Super Buu, and Coola, Black keeps on going, keeps on smiling and never lets anything really shake his resolve. And, that's a stark difference to Manga Black who is almost the exact opposite to his anime version, he's always losing his cool over something, when Goku and Vegeta arrive in the future he almost chokes on his coffee, and when he sees them he's not excited to fight them. And anytime something goes counter to his plans he gets really pissed off and gets incredibly angry. He's a considerably more generic character in the manga. He doesn't have that level of smugness Black in the anime has that makes him a joy to watch. Another thing the manga version lacks is Black's weird obsession/respect for Goku. In the anime Black has a love hate relation ship with the Saiyans and Goku himself. They're are also numerous instances when he praises Goku as the finest warrior of the Saiyan race. He compliments the Saiyan's body to get more powerful. Black in the manga in his own twisted and hated way does in fact respect Goku. This kind of dynamic between the two characters is what makes him even more fascinating, because you have a antagonist who is literally in Goku's skin, who kinda knows how to be kind of like Goku, and wants to be more like Goku to succeed in his plans. However, Black also hates everything that Goku stands for. He hates Goku for being as powerful as a god, for humiliating him, and for a whole bunch of other reasons. He hates the Saiyans because they're a vile warrior race, but he also respects them for being a powerful warrior race. And unfortunately this is an element completely missing in the manga. The decision to remove Zamasu V Goku in the manga makes it have an overall better story structure, because Black's origin in the anime is absolute nonsense. However, removing the Zamasu V Goku battle makes the whole ordeal a far less personal thing, and because these two haven't interacted with each other in the manga, they really do not have much going on with each other. Which makes manga Black a far lesser character for it. There are some subtle differences between the two of as well, anime Black has this sort of smugness around him, he's obsessed with beauty, where he feels like he's the ultimate god, the ultimate power, that he's the most beautiful god of them all. Black in the anime has this whole element of elegant to his character. The way he fights is elegant, it's very casual, it's very relaxed, and this works well with the whole smug super aspect of his character. Were him being so smug, and so casual makes him seem even more in control of the situation, even when shits going bad for him. It's another element that makes him an incredibly compelling antagonist, and in the manga he's just a brute, he grabs Trunk's by the face, he bashes him into the wall and then he just throws them around buildings. There's another element to Goku Black's character that both the anime and the manga fuck up, and that's how he gets more powerful. The anime version has him grow stronger through pain, but they don't explain how it works. Black gets more powerful, the stronger the enemy he fights, but the problem with that is Goku Black miraculously heals from all damage, they're several times where he just gets the living shit kicked out of him, and it doesn't fase him at all. The manga brings back the Zenkai, not necessarily a bad idea, works similar to what the anime has, the more powerful the opponent the stronger Goku Black gets. The problem with that is nothing really implies Black needs to fight a powerful opponent to get stronger to power up, and since he uses Future Zamasu's healing ability to keep going it's baffling that he does not have him almost kill him over and over, and over again, and just heal him to massively power up. The problem with the manga version is that it tries to be more logical, but it just does not make any sense. The only advantage Black in the manga has over Black in the anime, is the Zero Mortals plan. In the manga Black and Zamasu have hardly started it yet, they've only wiped out several civilizations. Unlike the anime where they've nearly killed everyone and Black's only Super Saiyan 2 tier.
|
|
??????
|
Post by Conqueror Geng on Apr 22, 2017 0:56:38 GMT
Both Black and Zamasu in the manga seemed a lot better to me. No bullshit powers, no unexplained "muh power grows like DBM broly while fighting". Merged Zamasu also looks a lot better in the manga. I hated that retarded white halo behind him, along with all his stupid asspulled Naruto abilities and 2-face transformation. Also, if Merged Zamasu defused then there will be no need for a "Unexplained SSJblue level rage trunks" or "instant learned 10 people Spirit Sword". Not to mention it's more humilliating that supposed "supreme gods" are also restricted by mortal laws. But, Black and Zamasu also lost all of what made them entertaining in the anime, they don't work together, and Black especially lost what made him a good villian in the anime. Black is hardly what you would call a good villain, Anime or not. Both Zamasu and Goku Black (both anime and manga) are a collection of clichés and stereotypes. On his defense he is far more brutal and appears crazier in the manga. Considering the course of action in the manga, it makes sense Goku Black was truly baffled at seeing Kakarotto and Vegeta in the timeline he was. He had no knowledge they could travel in time, and in such timeline they were already dead for decades. This only makes him more unrealistic to me. His overconfidence in the anime seemed unfounded to me, and became annoying at times. His outbursts of anger and overall volatile nature are in tune with his omnicidal plans and vain declarations of godhood (despite he himself murdered gods) and hatred of mortals (despite he took a mortal body). Implying an evil Goku isn't generic by itself, lol. It makes no sense for Manga Black to do this since he never really met Goku. He only watched him in a Youtube video. The lack of constant rageboner, in my case makes him more tolerable. Dynamic between Zamasu and Goku Black is more interesting in the manga because it comes down to the point they become so demoralized they begin fighting each other. Which I don't mind. This whole respect stuff made zero sense to me in the first place. Implying a really forced scene that was no more that a friendly spar somehow implies "more personal stuff". It doesn't. It's just toei handling things wrong. Even in the ANIME, Goku never did anything to truly unleash the anger of any rational person. In both versions, Zamasu got angry "just because" and because he was already "racist". I am also glad this was removed. I don't like metrosexual narcissistic villains. Black in the manga seems like an angrier, madder version of the Joker instead. This is all fine for me. I prefer some brutal, violent fighter (complementing his demented nature) than some knife wielding thug. I also like that he doesn't have Kamehameha or IT in the manga. It really made no sense for him to do that. If he could already do Kamehameha and IT, then he should also have been able to go SSJrose + Kaioken, which he didn't. Another thing I'm glad the manga removed. A saiyan body, nor a kaioshin soul have ever been established to grow in power with pain. Please give examples. I seriously can't think of anything in the manga that truly makes less sense than the anime. Even the non-sense (which there is a lot still) is still less of a non-sense than most things that happened during the Anime. Black in the manga originally couldn't even turn into SSJ, but he improved through fighting with Trunks. Then Vegeta defeated his SSJ2 to the point of nearly killing him, Mirai Zamasu healed him, and then, another Zenkai. He further received another one and finally became SSJrose. Rushed? Yes, very. But not non-sensical. Makes far more sense than "Ahhh Goku has punched me a few times, now I gotz all his powers and more". Also, they're very aware that Zeno could catch them. That all being said, there are certain moments from the Anime that are sorely missed: Goku Black and Zamasu meeting and hugging (this scene would have been epic in the manga). Goku Black krillin Goku's family in Kaioshin attire. Future Zamasu's first entrance as a stream of light from the clouded sky. Merged Zamasu screaming "Son.... GOKUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (although the timing and execution for this in the anime were quite bad). Goku Black's curved sword attack. Merged Zamasu randomly screaming pseudo-religious zealot named attacks. I also would have liked the anime scene where Goku and Vegeta ignore Zamasu talking for some minutes to appear in the manga. That's about it. Future Majin Saga was far better in the manga. Gowasu's and Shin's presence is far, far better than the anime. No "Super Trunks bullshit" is something to truly be glad for as well. Vegeta's portrayal is also far more dignified, as well as Goku. He shows some serious moments of empathy in the manga, and doesn't act so careless. It's also good that Goku did the Mafuba and not Trunks through some video. Even the seal stupidity was greatly toned down. No Yayirobe and CO and no Bulma in the battlefield is also cool to me. They did not really serve any purpose. Of course I am only talking from a history telling and artistic perspective. I am not factoring the limitations and advantages of their particular formats like soundtrack, good voice actors, explosion effects, etc..
|
|
??????
|
Post by Griffith on Apr 22, 2017 3:11:00 GMT
Black is hardly what you would call a good villain, Anime or not. Both Zamasu and Goku Black (both anime and manga) are a collection of clichés and stereotypes. On his defense he is far more brutal and appears crazier in the manga. Considering the course of action in the manga, it makes sense Goku Black was truly baffled at seeing Kakarotto and Vegeta in the timeline he was. He had no knowledge they could travel in time, and in such timeline they were already dead for decades. This only makes him more unrealistic to me. His overconfidence in the anime seemed unfounded to me, and became annoying at times. His outbursts of anger and overall volatile nature are in tune with his omnicidal plans and vain declarations of godhood (despite he himself murdered gods) and hatred of mortals (despite he took a mortal body). Implying an evil Goku isn't generic by itself, lol. It makes no sense for Manga Black to do this since he never really met Goku. He only watched him in a Youtube video. The lack of constant rageboner, in my case makes him more tolerable. Dynamic between Zamasu and Goku Black is more interesting in the manga because it comes down to the point they become so demoralized they begin fighting each other. Which I don't mind. This whole respect stuff made zero sense to me in the first place. Implying a really forced scene that was no more that a friendly spar somehow implies "more personal stuff". It doesn't. It's just toei handling things wrong. Even in the ANIME, Goku never did anything to truly unleash the anger of any rational person. In both versions, Zamasu got angry "just because" and because he was already "racist". I am also glad this was removed. I don't like metrosexual narcissistic villains. Black in the manga seems like an angrier, madder version of the Joker instead. This is all fine for me. I prefer some brutal, violent fighter (complementing his demented nature) than some knife wielding thug. I also like that he doesn't have Kamehameha or IT in the manga. It really made no sense for him to do that. If he could already do Kamehameha and IT, then he should also have been able to go SSJrose + Kaioken, which he didn't. Another thing I'm glad the manga removed. A saiyan body, nor a kaioshin soul have ever been established to grow in power with pain. Please give examples. I seriously can't think of anything in the manga that truly makes less sense than the anime. Even the non-sense (which there is a lot still) is still less of a non-sense than most things that happened during the Anime. Black in the manga originally couldn't even turn into SSJ, but he improved through fighting with Trunks. Then Vegeta defeated his SSJ2 to the point of nearly killing him, Mirai Zamasu healed him, and then, another Zenkai. He further received another one and finally became SSJrose. Rushed? Yes, very. But not non-sensical. Makes far more sense than "Ahhh Goku has punched me a few times, now I gotz all his powers and more". Also, they're very aware that Zeno could catch them. Well, that's your opinion of him. I would call Perfect Cell a boring mess of a villain who got less, and less interesting the closer he got to perfection. And I do call him that. Heck, even calling Black a bad villain is an unpopular opinion. I don't understand that, Goku Black in the anime was the guy who pinned a helpless father to the wall while telling him how he killed his family. Of course his manga counterpart did it, but it was far less impressive. And for the second part Anime Black did have the luck to visit them first so he was aware of them. So, it's unrealistic if someone constantly believes that they're in control? Someone who doesn't constantly flip out and have the mother of all bitch fits the moment everything goes wrong? And for the annoying part, that's just your opinion. And how is it in-tune? Even if it is it makes him far more of a generic character for it.
But Black is only an evil Goku in concept alone.
And he's far less interesting of a character for it, his conflict with Goku is no longer personal, he's now relegated to some random Kaio Shin who got a bit mad that a mortal was that strong. Black Goku respected Goku for his power, and he hated him for being that powerful. Black Goku hated the Saiyans for being a scummy warrior race, but he respected them for being a powerful warrior race. It's a hate respect relationship. Dynamic between Zamasu and Goku Black is more interesting in the manga because it comes down to the point they become so demoralized they begin fighting each other. Is it more interesting than two warriors who know each other so completely that their both a dangerous force to be reckoned with? And why should they be so demoralized they still have the potara. He did, in the anime Zamasu who was already distrustful of the mortals was humiliated in one on one battle with a mortal. proving to him that mortals are not only savage and vile, who constantly war, and kill, they can also become as strong as the gods themselves. In the manga Zamasu watched a video and got a hissy fit because of it. I'm not implying, I'm stating that a one on one match where Zamasu was completely humiliated in battle, against a mortal who already was disrespectful to him, and while he already is distrustful, and disgusted of them already, solidifying not only his hatred towards the mortals, but making his battles with Goku much more personal is not "Toei handling things wrong." Of course there is the problem of his origin making no god damn sense. But if you want you can take the manga version, while making more sense, carries absolutely none of the emotion, and makes the conflict not personal at all. Well then, you can take a boring generic villain who's been done too many times. And Black in the manga isn't an angrier, madder version of the Joker, he would have to be much, much more sillier for that to be the case, and even then how does not make him better. O.K then. Also, Manga Black still has the Kamehameha, he used it against Future Trunks while he was escaping. Same way Cell never had Kaio Ken. Except, it's never been established what would happen if both of them fused together. And once again that aspect should have been explained more, and even then it's still a better idea than just reintroducing Zenkai's. Please give examples. I seriously can't think of anything in the manga that truly makes less sense than the anime. Even the non-sense (which there is a lot still) is still less of a non-sense than most things that happened during the Anime. Black getting stronger through Zenkai's and not using Zamasu to abuse that, Vegeta's strength against Black before he got his Zenkai makes no sense, of course I do agree with you that the manga makes more sense than the anime, arguing against that would be a fools errand. And that's the point, he improved through Zankai's which was the stated way that he gets stronger in the manga. Goku Black getting stronger through pain and stronger opponents makes more sense than having Zenkai's, which are easily spammable, and never actually using them.
|
|