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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 3:05:17 GMT
For the love of... Ashanark, you moving that post had me trippin balls for a minute there. For what it's worth that was nice write up and who wouldn't read a well crafted post detailing Buu Saga PL's?
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 7, 2017 3:27:37 GMT
Yep. Another gripe I have with these powerlists is that Goku tend to be over-estimated. Vegeta spoke some big words to Gohan, but so what? Thus far there are no feasible power feats that suggest they're severely stronger than in Buu saga (at least in the case of Goku mostly, who was already SSJ3). However, most of these PL's always put as some sort of default, that Goku/Vegeta are close enough in strength and there is nothing that truly indicates so. Really, it's very hard to compare, but were they not the protagonists, no one in their fucking right minds would think Vegeta would go from 2nd Cell Jr level to Mystic Gohan, when there were no real threats after Buu? This would amount to 50x the gains he made previous to that in his whole life. Goku's upgrade from Basic SSJ, then Super Buu, then Mystic Gohan is only slightly less exaggerated. I instead placed them on Super Buu levels, but considering all what Ashanark said this is still a lot. A more 'conservative' version of this that sorta applies to this DBM (apparently?) would be. Goku SSJ3 = 1 Kid Buu = 1 Super Buu = 3 1 + (1+1 = each kaioshin) Gotenks = 3 Mystic Gohan = 5 Buutenks = 6 (3 = super buu) + (3 = gotenks) Buuhan = 8 (3 = super buu) + (5 = gohan) Vegetto = 80 (Buuhan x 10) Ashanark calculations are far more accurate, but also impossible to convey in a proper, practical way. We've already Gone full retarded just going from SSJ3 Goku to SSJ3 Gotenks. When you already factor SSJ1 Vegetto it gets even more massive. Now imagine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 Vegetto? By Ashanark's analysis Gotenks should be around the thousand times stronger than Goku. Vegetto should be a thousand times stronger than Gotenks then.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 3:37:10 GMT
Yep. Another gripe I have with these powerlists is that Goku tend to be over-estimated. Vegeta spoke some big words to Gohan, but so what? Thus far there are no feasible power feats that suggest they're severely stronger than in Buu saga (at least in the case of Goku mostly, who was already SSJ3). However, most of these PL's always put as some sort of default, that Goku/Vegeta are close enough in strength and there is nothing that truly indicates so. Really, it's very hard to compare, but were they not the protagonists, no one in their fucking right minds would think Vegeta would go from 2nd Cell Jr level to Mystic Gohan, when there were no real threats after Buu? This would amount to 50x the gains he made previous to that in his whole life. Goku's upgrade from Basic SSJ, then Super Buu, then Mystic Gohan is only slightly less exaggerated. I instead placed them on Super Buu levels, but considering all what Ashanark said this is still a lot. A more 'conservative' version of this that sorta applies to this DBM (apparently?) would be. Goku SSJ3 = 1 Kid Buu = 1 Super Buu = 3 1 + (1+1 = each kaioshin) Gotenks = 3 Mystic Gohan = 5 Buutenks = 6 (3 = super buu) + (3 = gotenks) Buuhan = 8 (3 = super buu) + (5 = gohan) Vegetto = 80 (Buuhan x 10) Ashanark calculations are far more accurate, but also impossible to convey in a proper, practical way. We've already Gone full retarded just going from SSJ3 Goku to SSJ3 Gotenks. When you already factor SSJ1 Vegetto it gets even more massive. Now imagine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 Vegetto??????? I would honestly put Gotenks at 2, maybe 2.5 at best and I would have Vegetto 2 maaaaaaybe 4 times Buuhan. 10 just seems a tad excessive to me. Wait, are you calculating this as of now in the DBM story or during the Buu saga?
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 7, 2017 3:41:09 GMT
Yep. Another gripe I have with these powerlists is that Goku tend to be over-estimated. Vegeta spoke some big words to Gohan, but so what? Thus far there are no feasible power feats that suggest they're severely stronger than in Buu saga (at least in the case of Goku mostly, who was already SSJ3). However, most of these PL's always put as some sort of default, that Goku/Vegeta are close enough in strength and there is nothing that truly indicates so. Really, it's very hard to compare, but were they not the protagonists, no one in their fucking right minds would think Vegeta would go from 2nd Cell Jr level to Mystic Gohan, when there were no real threats after Buu? This would amount to 50x the gains he made previous to that in his whole life. Goku's upgrade from Basic SSJ, then Super Buu, then Mystic Gohan is only slightly less exaggerated. I instead placed them on Super Buu levels, but considering all what Ashanark said this is still a lot. A more 'conservative' version of this that sorta applies to this DBM (apparently?) would be. Goku SSJ3 = 1 Kid Buu = 1 Super Buu = 3 1 + (1+1 = each kaioshin) Gotenks = 3 Mystic Gohan = 5 Buutenks = 6 (3 = super buu) + (3 = gotenks) Buuhan = 8 (3 = super buu) + (5 = gohan) Vegetto = 80 (Buuhan x 10) Ashanark calculations are far more accurate, but also impossible to convey in a proper, practical way. We've already Gone full retarded just going from SSJ3 Goku to SSJ3 Gotenks. When you already factor SSJ1 Vegetto it gets even more massive. Now imagine with SSJ2 and SSJ3 Vegetto? I would honestly put Gotenks at 2, maybe 2.5 at best and I would have Vegetto 2 maaaaaaybe 4 times Buuhan. 10 just seems a tad excessive to me. Wait, are you calculating this as of now in the DBM story or during the Buu saga? Per DBM of course. Distances in Buu saga, as Ashanark showed, actually can go in the 1000x level and beyond. Gotenks is fine at 3 for me, if anything I'd have put Super Buu at 4. But then again, this would screw the whole equation, because where the hell would Super Buu get the extra 1 from? Assuming the 2 kaioshins are 1, with the addition of Kid Buu (another unit) then it would only be 3. Gotenks at 2 or even 2.5 would have resulted in a far more even fight with Mystic Gohan, which did not happen at all. If Gotenks = 2, then Super Buu + Goten would be 5 Buutenks = 5 Mystic Gohan = 5 Mystic Gohan = Buutenks? Nah, this is wrong. Given how much Gohan was trashed, I'd say even my 6 vs. 5 seems too little.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 4:11:09 GMT
I would honestly put Gotenks at 2, maybe 2.5 at best and I would have Vegetto 2 maaaaaaybe 4 times Buuhan. 10 just seems a tad excessive to me. Wait, are you calculating this as of now in the DBM story or during the Buu saga? Per DBM of course. Distances in Buu saga, as Ashanark showed, actually can go in the 1000x level and beyond. Gotenks is fine at 3 for me, if anything I'd have put Super Buu at 4. But then again, this would screw the whole equation, because where the hell would Super Buu get the extra 1 from? Assuming the 2 kaioshins are 1, with the addition of Kid Buu (another unit) then it would only be 3. Gotenks at 2 or even 2.5 would have resulted in a far more even fight with Mystic Gohan, which did not happen at all. If Gotenks = 2, then Super Buu + Goten would be 5 Buutenks = 5 Mystic Gohan = 5 Mystic Gohan = Buutenks? Nah, this is wrong. Given how much Gohan was trashed, I'd say even my 6 vs. 5 seems too little. You aren't considering the inclusion of Piccolo. The increase in intellect and fighting experience while knowing Gohan back to front is more than enough to have a distinct advantage over him. With those factored in Piccolo could easily be .5 and fix up the equation.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 7, 2017 4:45:21 GMT
Per DBM of course. Distances in Buu saga, as Ashanark showed, actually can go in the 1000x level and beyond. Gotenks is fine at 3 for me, if anything I'd have put Super Buu at 4. But then again, this would screw the whole equation, because where the hell would Super Buu get the extra 1 from? Assuming the 2 kaioshins are 1, with the addition of Kid Buu (another unit) then it would only be 3. Gotenks at 2 or even 2.5 would have resulted in a far more even fight with Mystic Gohan, which did not happen at all. If Gotenks = 2, then Super Buu + Goten would be 5 Buutenks = 5 Mystic Gohan = 5 Mystic Gohan = Buutenks? Nah, this is wrong. Given how much Gohan was trashed, I'd say even my 6 vs. 5 seems too little. You aren't considering the inclusion of Piccolo. The increase in intellect and fighting experience while knowing Gohan back to front is more than enough to have a distinct advantage over him. With those factored in Piccolo could easily be .5 and fix up the equation. No, just no. This would imply Goku SSJ3 is only Piccolo 2x, lmao. Even Majin Vegeta wouldn't amount to 0.1 in this scale. Piccolo would be 0.01 or so. Individual Goten and Trunks are even less than this evidently, this is why I didn't factor any of them. I do not think Piccolo increased his intellect as much as preventing him from losing it entirely upon absorbing Gotenks. Base Super Buu was quite smart.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 4:55:23 GMT
You aren't considering the inclusion of Piccolo. The increase in intellect and fighting experience while knowing Gohan back to front is more than enough to have a distinct advantage over him. With those factored in Piccolo could easily be .5 and fix up the equation. No, just no. This would imply Goku SSJ3 is only Piccolo 2x, lmao. Even Majin Vegeta wouldn't amount to 0.1 in this scale. Piccolo would be 0.01 or so. Individual Goten and Trunks are even less than this evidently, this is why I didn't factor any of them. I do not think Piccolo increased his intellect as much as preventing him from losing it entirely upon absorbing Gotenks. Base Super Buu was quite smart. Super Buu is only a couple of rungs up on the ladder of retardation from Kid Buu. I am only having Piccolo at .5 due to what he brings to Buu as a whole, kinda like the proverbial cherry on top, especially given that his opponent was Gohan. How can you justify such a high multiplier for Vegetto then? Majin Vegeta is 10 times weaker than SSJ Goku yet even with Piccolo? Hmm, who do you think is smarter, Super Buu or Goku?
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 7, 2017 5:27:18 GMT
No, just no. This would imply Goku SSJ3 is only Piccolo 2x, lmao. Even Majin Vegeta wouldn't amount to 0.1 in this scale. Piccolo would be 0.01 or so. Individual Goten and Trunks are even less than this evidently, this is why I didn't factor any of them. I do not think Piccolo increased his intellect as much as preventing him from losing it entirely upon absorbing Gotenks. Base Super Buu was quite smart. Super Buu is only a couple of rungs up on the ladder of retardation from Kid Buu. I am only having Piccolo at .5 due to what he brings to Buu as a whole, kinda like the proverbial cherry on top, especially given that his opponent was Gohan. How can you justify such a high multiplier for Vegetto then? Majin Vegeta is 10 times weaker than SSJ Goku yet even with Piccolo? Hmm, who do you think is smarter, Super Buu or Goku? Not really. Fat Buu maybe is, but even then that's a considerable improvement. The broken English parts of his speech are only in the English dubs. In the manga he speaks perfectly. He was able to calculate the number of humans and launch and attack, he also was able to device a plan to fight Gohan while simultaneously fighting with Gotenks. He then taunted Gotenks again, taking in time how much the fusion lasts. I wouldn't say that's just one step above Kid Buu on intelligence levels. All of these feats suggest that he had at least average intelligence, if not higher. And Piccolo is not even with Vegeta. I never said so. Decimals at work, Piccolo is 0.01, Majin Vegeta is 0.1. That's a tenfold difference.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 5:40:59 GMT
Super Buu is only a couple of rungs up on the ladder of retardation from Kid Buu. I am only having Piccolo at .5 due to what he brings to Buu as a whole, kinda like the proverbial cherry on top, especially given that his opponent was Gohan. How can you justify such a high multiplier for Vegetto then? Majin Vegeta is 10 times weaker than SSJ Goku yet even with Piccolo? Hmm, who do you think is smarter, Super Buu or Goku? Not really. Fat Buu maybe is, but even then that's a considerable improvement. The broken English parts of his speech are only in the English dubs. In the manga he speaks perfectly. He was able to calculate the number of humans and launch and attack, he also was able to device a plan to fight Gohan while simultaneously fighting with Gotenks. He then taunted Gotenks again, taking in time how much the fusion lasts. I wouldn't say that's just one step above Kid Buu on intelligence levels. All of these feats suggest that he had at least average intelligence, if not higher. And Piccolo is not even with Vegeta. I never said so. Decimals at work, Piccolo is 0.01, Majin Vegeta is 0.1. That's a tenfold difference. Oh fuck, my bad, I misread Piccolo as .1 not .01. Here I am tryin to give Piccolo some love and you keep shootin it down. How about we have Gotenks at 2.99 and call it a day? Super Buu is cunning, not intelligent as many use the term but that's a discussion for a different thread. That said I still think he is smarter than Goku overall.
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Post by Teh Jammah on Oct 7, 2017 10:49:49 GMT
Heliotes. With no Armour. Are ANDROID TIER?! I think you VASTLY overrrate the unarmoured Heloiotes. They should be in the bottom tier. Their whole hat is being normal, non ki users who make up for that with tech
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 11:52:49 GMT
Heliotes. With no Armour. Are ANDROID TIER?! I think you VASTLY overrrate the unarmoured Heloiotes. They should be in the bottom tier. Their whole hat is being normal, non ki users who make up for that with tech I was of the impression they were significantly superior both mentally and physically than your typical human but without the ability to generate ki, but I do agree that having them at android tier is a bit much. Like tier 1.5 or lower end tier 2.
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Post by Teh Jammah on Oct 7, 2017 14:56:21 GMT
Based on the U3 special & U19 novel, if Heliotes were that strong, Kakarotto & Raditz would have died long before Vegeta & Nappa got anywhere near the planet, and even going Oozaru would still have lead to them being curb stomped with no casualties. Unless the novel updates again &/or there's a special/mini-comic that inidcates that they started gene therapy on their soldier types to buff them up, then there's no way they should be stronger than Burter/Jeice/Recoome level TOPS
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Post by Argelios on Oct 7, 2017 18:37:30 GMT
Damnit forum, I lost my whole post ... okay, here I go again: AshanarkCongrats! Best explanation I've ever seen about Mystic Gohan power. -About Bra, Goku and Vegeta:SSJ Bra should be there, the novel says she is slightly weaker than Gohan, but I could move her above Hatchiyak, yes. Goku and Vegeta... well, there are hints in the comic and novel that suggest both of them reached Gohan's level, for example, Goku recognizes SSJ3Gotenks superiority only after the Buu steroids. That could mean he believes he can beat normal SSJ3Gotenks (Mystic Gohan lvl). Or Vegeta, who keeps bitching in the novel he can beat Gohan. But yes, it's only a possibility, they could be weaker than Gast too. Conqueror GengThats why I said ealier that Vegetto is just too OP and Gogeta can't be on the same level tier unless they use the new "upgraded fusion" Potala >>>>>>>>>> Metamoru. Teh JammahBelieve me, I'm with you, you are right. But then we have one of Salagir's most WTF moments: Eleim fighting with A16 on pure strength and speed.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 7, 2017 18:58:05 GMT
Argelios Not entirely true it seems! If we take Caihlem (part of the team) post about this Salagir statement as true: Quick note before reading my comment: I'm not privy to any inside information. (And why would I?) That being said, I do have one leg over in this debate: Salagir has a personal blog in French where he exposes his opinion on the Potara v Fusion debate. In his opinion, the potaras create a new being, adding the strengths of each and forming someone new in and of himself. Vegito expresses as much in his novelisation - he's neither Goku nor Vegeta, nor the sum of their parts, he's himself. So yes, he's absurdly powerful, and all that. Fusion on the other hand would be more of a math formula, participant one AND participant two, hence why this form would have the time limit in the first place. In Salagir's mind, Fusion is more powerful than Potaras.
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Post by Argelios on Oct 7, 2017 19:40:57 GMT
Fusion on the other hand would be more of a math formula, participant one AND participant two, hence why this form would have the time limit in the first place. In Salagir's mind, Fusion is more powerful than Potaras.Wtf? Okay, I can understand Salagir wants to make Vegetto less OP even if that contradicts the manga a little bit (see Ashanark post), he has done that already with things like SSJ2 Bra at Vegetto SSJ tier... or Frieza being weaker. But saying Metamoru > Potala is totally nuts.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 21:36:19 GMT
Argelios Not entirely true it seems! If we take Caihlem (part of the team) post about this Salagir statement as true: Quick note before reading my comment: I'm not privy to any inside information. (And why would I?) That being said, I do have one leg over in this debate: Salagir has a personal blog in French where he exposes his opinion on the Potara v Fusion debate. In his opinion, the potaras create a new being, adding the strengths of each and forming someone new in and of himself. Vegito expresses as much in his novelisation - he's neither Goku nor Vegeta, nor the sum of their parts, he's himself. So yes, he's absurdly powerful, and all that. Fusion on the other hand would be more of a math formula, participant one AND participant two, hence why this form would have the time limit in the first place. In Salagir's mind, Fusion is more powerful than Potaras. The literal fuck? Ok ok, I think I have figured out this cheeky frog munchers scheme. You all see his smartarse reply on pg 1361? This confirms that not only is he a bloody funny cunt, but he is "acting" senile like AT on purpose. I mean how else can you explain some of this shit?
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 7, 2017 21:45:35 GMT
Conqueror Geng Thats why I said ealier that Vegetto is just too OP and Gogeta can't be on the same level tier unless they use the new "upgraded fusion" Potala >>>>>>>>>> Metamoru. Here is how I look at it. Vegetto being vastly stronger than Gotenks isn't because of the fusion method, but the components themselves. Fusion in DB is just a ridiculous enormous boost regardless of which method it is that fusion is in whole different world compared to the components that make it up. Goten and Trunks are much weaker than their dads in the Buu arc, but when they fuse into Gotenks they don't become comparable to them, but actually vastly more powerful than either of them. Like Ashanark's post pointed out the power boost was just that crazy. If we take Goku and Vegeta in the Buu arc who were already much stronger than their sons that the two of them using the dance to form Gogeta is likely to produce a warrior of insane levels, but on a bigger scale. Gogeta should be vastly stronger than Gotenks just like Vegetto was. It is more likely that the stronger the components are that fuse together the more of a power boost they obtain. Even if Vegetto was stronger than Gogeta it is likely not to the extent that he his a tier above him. It might not even be a huge difference if there is one at all. Even if there was a noticeable difference between the two fusions from when they formed back in the Buu arc the gaps is likely to have closed. Ashanark's post pointed out how Goten and Trunks training a few months in the time chamber to buff themselves up had a big boost for Gotenks. Base Gotenks was strong enough to make Piccolo think he had a shot at Super Buu before he knew Gotenks could transform after fusion, which means he has to be stronger than SS1 Gotenks from before the training. Even if Goku and Vegeta are getting diminished returns now and aren't at Gohan's level yet as individuals it would still be a massive boost for Gogeta. It could be so massive that even if he were tier behind before he should be as strong as Vegetto now. The downside on Vegetto being a permanent fusion would be he would have an even harder time getting to new levels than Goku and Vegeta because he is so damn strong. Where as even a small boost in individuals should give a fusion a shit ton of more power. If anything there is a good chance of U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta fusing into Gogeta could be above Vegetto just based on how broken fusion is in general in this series.
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Post by VoidSlayer on Oct 7, 2017 22:30:54 GMT
Conqueror Geng Thats why I said ealier that Vegetto is just too OP and Gogeta can't be on the same level tier unless they use the new "upgraded fusion" Potala >>>>>>>>>> Metamoru. Here is how I look at it. Vegetto being vastly stronger than Gotenks isn't because of the fusion method, but the components themselves. Fusion in DB is just a ridiculous enormous boost regardless of which method it is that fusion is in whole different world compared to the components that make it up. Goten and Trunks are much weaker than their dads in the Buu arc, but when they fuse into Gotenks they don't become comparable to them, but actually vastly more powerful than either of them. Like Ashanark's post pointed out the power boost was just that crazy. If we take Goku and Vegeta in the Buu arc who were already much stronger than their sons that the two of them using the dance to form Gogeta is likely to produce a warrior of insane levels, but on a bigger scale. Gogeta should be vastly stronger than Gotenks just like Vegetto was. It is more likely that the stronger the components are that fuse together the more of a power boost they obtain. Even if Vegetto was stronger than Gogeta it is likely not to the extent that he his a tier above him. It might not even be a huge difference if there is one at all. Even if there was a noticeable difference between the two fusions from when they formed back in the Buu arc the gaps is likely to have closed. Ashanark's post pointed out how Goten and Trunks training a few months in the time chamber to buff themselves up had a big boost for Gotenks. Base Gotenks was strong enough to make Piccolo think he had a shot at Super Buu before he knew Gotenks could transform after fusion, which means he has to be stronger than SS1 Gotenks from before the training. Even if Goku and Vegeta are getting diminished returns now and aren't at Gohan's level yet as individuals it would still be a massive boost for Gogeta. It could be so massive that even if he were tier behind before he should be as strong as Vegetto now. The downside on Vegetto being a permanent fusion would be he would have an even harder time getting to new levels than Goku and Vegeta because he is so damn strong. Where as even a small boost in individuals should give a fusion a shit ton of more power. If anything there is a good chance of U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta fusing into Gogeta could be above Vegetto just based on how broken fusion is in general in this series. So if Goten and Trunks were to fuse using potaras, they'd be stronger than their fusion dance counterpart but still much weaker than Vegito (at that part of DBZ) because they were individually much weaker than Goku and Vegeta? Thats a good way of looking at it, because all talk about potential aside, 'potential' doesn't equal actual strength, and i highly doubt any fusion method would recognise that.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Oct 7, 2017 22:32:45 GMT
Other problem in evaluating Gogeta is that the only real reference (if any at all?) is from a movie that has more fucked up time place, circumstance and consistency than even the Tapion movie. We know the base Janemba is weaker than a SSJ3, but there is no clear indication of how truly strong Janemba II was. He could have been anywhere from Super Buu to above Buuhan. Base Janemba got pummeled down when Goku got serious, but as long as he condensed himself into his devil form, he started crapping the shit so bad out of Goku he had to basically run for the whole battle. For Gogeta there is not much reference either, since he basically one shotted Janemba. He could have been even stronger than Vegeto for all we know. So, even if this movie actually happened in DBM, with the actual screenplay it's impossible to tell how strong everyone was in it. Gogeta has never truly existed in DBM, it only exist as a possibility because they know the fusion technique. But then again, if two weak SSJ's can go from below android level to Goku SSJ3 once fused and SSJ, now imagine a SSJ3 dude and a SSJ2 stronger than Kid Gohan and Super Perfect Cell (!!). Now, more as a joke to the brokeness of such fusion methods, Gotenks managed to get SSJ3 despite neither of the original components even surpassed basic SSJ. If we take Gotenks as the sole canon example for metamoru fusion... Then it means metamoru fusion can unlock transformations that the original can't access. Therefore, in transformation upgrades, metamoru is certainly better. The metamoru boost from Goten/trunks to Gotenks, is proportionally higher than that of the potara of Vegeta/Goku, by a quite large margin. Therefore an hypothetic Buu saga Gogeta would be stronger than a Buu saga Vegeto by a considerable extent. I would not dare say he would clearly defeat Vegetto under DBM standards, but if we take Ashanark math calculations (mostly Gotenks vs. Goku ssj3) into account, then Gogeta should be able to one-punch Vegeto, easily. Also, all of this is without even taking into account the "Hidden Vegeta" or the "New Fusion technique" taught by Buu(!!!)Now, as some food for thought, since we've been going about Gogeta since 3 or 4 pages (and even other threads...) After reading all I've said.. Do you people think a Potara Gotenks would really be truly superior to Classic Metamoru Gotenks? I do not really think so. Edit: VoidSlayer , lmao.. You just mentioned it before I finished the post.
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Post by Son Pan on Oct 7, 2017 22:51:49 GMT
So if Goten and Trunks were to fuse using potaras, they'd be stronger than their fusion dance counterpart but still much weaker than Vegito (at that part of DBZ) because they were individually much weaker than Goku and Vegeta? Thats a good way of looking at it, because all talk about potential aside, 'potential' doesn't equal actual strength, and i highly doubt any fusion method would recognise that. It depends on if you subscribe potara actually makes a stronger warrior than fusion or if you think Old Kai meant potara was stronger method since it doesn't require precise movements to use and doesn't have a time limit to worry about. If you believe the former than yes Trunks/Goten potara would be stronger than Gotenks, but nowhere near Vegetto's level. If you believe the latter than the potara fusion would probably only be as strong as Gotenks was, but not have to worry about SS3 breaking his fusion down like Gotenks does. That explains why adult Gotenks has gotten so much of a power boost. Since Goten and Trunks are stronger than they were kids, Gotenks power increases proportionately. They go from being weaker than Mystic Gohan and U16 Bra to being above them, but weaker than Vegetto. At least for DBM if Goten and Trunks had trained and became as strong as their dads in the Buu arc that Gotenks would likely be in Vegetto's weight class.
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