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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 20:17:07 GMT
bk81As long as LSSJ is still the unstoppable force of nature who could speak more than one word like in the first film, I don't mind what else they change about him! I can't wait to see Freeza's reaction to Broly. Four months may have been enough of surpass almost every other SSJ form but he'll never come close to the true legend! Muhahahaha! Anyway, I wonder how strong Broly will be? If Jiren was supposed to be more powerful than the Gods of Destruction, Broly might be between Beerus and Whis. I heard the speculation that Gogeta might appear but I don't know if a SSJB Gogeta would be strong enough or if the fusion would even last more than a few seconds.
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Post by The Masterman on Jul 10, 2018 21:57:44 GMT
My reaction so far:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 23:08:14 GMT
Prediction for their first encounter...
Freeza: Ho ho ho! I have trained for an additional four months to achieve Ultra Instinct. Behold the power of Platinum Freeza! Broly arrives on Earth and transforms into LSSJ Freeza: W-who is this?! Vegeta: He is no ordinary Super Saiyan...!
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 11, 2018 15:44:04 GMT
Yes I beat you to it. Mwahahahaha!!! Yes it would seem so unless of course this is some super elaborate prank. I actually saw this coming way back when we were introduced to Kale's Berserker form *cough*LSSJ*cough*. Toriyama was just testing the waters with her in preparation for re-introducing his re-imagined Broly. I'm all for this especially if he does justice to Broly's backstory unlike Toei and their crappy Broly hating Goku because he cried as a baby crap.
I have faith they'll do him justice. They fucked up Jiren halfway through, but they have a good track record for bringing back old characters. Frieza and especially Android 17 namely. Frieza wasn't the dumb fuck he was in Z (only thwarted because Goku got God intervention hacks), and actually had a plan when he got invited to the tournament (again, thwarted by factors he couldn't control, unlike in Z when he played with his food until his food got strong enough to kill him).
Android 17. Self explanatory.
So yeah, they can do so much more with this Broly. Now they just have to not let us down which, shouldn't be too hard considering what they're working with.freeza was a dumb fuck in super, he didn't test his golden form and lost for the same reason he lost in dbz. Lost ki and stamina, and then had to use a laser beam from his co-worker to down goku from behind. He got smarter later by controlling his golden form in hell...some how. I just wish his golden form were a god form of his own, it diminishes the awesomeness of god forms and god ki for a mere mortal to surpass a god ki user who isn't a kaioshin or god of creation. speaking of which, do kaioshin have a different ki than say beerus or god goku? They could sense kaioshin, but not beerus or wiss or even ssjb goku unless they themselves were gods. In any case, here's hoping the new brolly is good!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 18:25:18 GMT
@thatguy If Whis didn't rewind time, they probably would've asked King Kai to speak with the Nameks and restore the Earth and then kill Freeza. Freeza would've had a short-lived victory unless the Z fighter forget about Porunga.
My problem with ROF is that the story should've never reached the point of Freeza getting the opportunity to destroy the planet. Goku was able to counter every sneak attack Freeza threw at him on Namek so it makes no sense that he would lower his guard enough that a weak laser could hurt him. In the future timeline, Goku was able to kill both Freeza and King Cold before either one was able to ragequit and destroy the planet. He was planning on doing the same thing in the present had Trunks not intervened. Goku should've disintegrated Golden Freeza the first chance he got to prevent him from destroying the planet like he would've done to Mecha Freeza and King Cold.
The story relied heavily on Goku forgetting what he already learned about Freeza in their previous encounters. It wasnt enough that they went with one of the most generic storylines but they took the laziness a step further and have Goku forget what Freeza does when he's losing just to make the movie last longer.
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 11, 2018 18:56:11 GMT
At first I hated this idea, but after reading posts here and thinking about it this turned me around to bringing Broly into canon and re-imaging him. He could be a better character and maybe this time his power could make more sense than it did in the movies. This could be a move that reunites the Broly haters and lovers together if the revised character has more going on for him than shouting Goku’s name while retaining the brutality that people fell in love with. It will also give him a defined power so we can end this bullshit arguing that Broly has unlimited power and can defeat anyone, which is really what soured me on to the character. Even if he is made stronger than Jiren chances are there won’t be be some overflowing comment that people latch on to and claim his power is limitless and when he goes down he has a clear place in the power structure people won’t argue over.
If Broly is made an ancient Saiyan that is even better. What I don’t want to see if Broly meddling up like he did before. His whole Legendary Super Saiyan stick went against canon information and had people think the Super Saiyan was different from the legend altogether, which it wasn’t. I’m totally fine with him having a new form that is legendary as long as it isn’t LSS monkier.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 18:57:29 GMT
@thatguy I don't know I would argue he was even stupider in RoF. The fact that he had Sorbet prepare his laser meant Freeza wasn't 100% he would win and thought a back-up plan would help. The fact that none of his sneak attacks worked on Namek meant his back-up plan relied on Goku being stupider due to the plot. It would've made more sense to train his Golden form than rely on Sorbet's laser.
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 11, 2018 19:12:10 GMT
I guess if we want to get technical Freeza did succeed in catching Goku off guard with his sneak attacks before and it was more chance Goku survived and less Goku beat or overcame all of them. If Freeza put a bit more energy in his attack on Namek Goku would have died in space. If Freeza actually aimed his ki disc to kill Goku instead of scar him to force him continue the fight he would have killed Goku. I can kind of see the reasoning in Freeza thinking to use surprise attacks in the fight, which did kind of work still.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 19:39:54 GMT
Son PanI assumed Freeza was trying to kill Goku with his discs and Goku dodged it at the last second. He had them follow Goku and even said that they could slice through anything so I don't think Freeza was intending to just have him continue the battle. Goku was able to deflect all of Freeza's death beams so I found it odd that Freeza would assume Goku would lower his guard enough that a laser like a trillion times weaker than his death beam would be effective. @thatguy I agree Freeza made some improvement that he at least considered training but he literally had no idea how strong Goku could've been. I think at the very least he should've trained until he couldn't get any stronger and not rush to Earth as soon as he achieved a new form. His men tell him Goku defeated Buu who was one of the guys his father warned him about and then proceeds to say he'll train for four months. As Mecha Freeza, he had King Cold by his side in case his power-up wasn't enough. In RoF, he declines having King Cold resurrected which would've given him a stronger training partner and extra help. I we could agree to disagree since I don't think I could ever consider RoF doing any favors for Freeza's character or that any changes from what we knew before about him were worth it.
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 11, 2018 19:50:02 GMT
Son PanI assumed Freeza was trying to kill Goku with his discs and Goku dodged it at the last second. He had them follow Goku and even said that they could slice through anything so I don't think Freeza was intending to just have him continue the battle. Goku was able to deflect all of Freeza's death beams so I found it odd that Freeza would assume Goku would lower his guard enough that a laser like a trillion times weaker than his death beam would be effective. @thatguy I agree Freeza made some improvement that he at least considered training but he literally had no idea how strong Goku could've been. I think at the very least he should've trained until he couldn't get any stronger and not rush to Earth as soon as he achieved a new form. His men tell him Goku defeated Buu who was one of the guys his father warned him about and then proceeds to say he'll train for four months. As Mecha Freeza, he had King Cold by his side in case his power-up wasn't enough. In RoF, he declines having King Cold resurrected which would've given him a stronger training partner and extra help. I we could agree to disagree since I don't think I could ever consider RoF doing any favors for Freeza's character or that any changes from what we knew before about him were worth it. He was definitely trying to kill Goku with his disks, but I think the initial attack just sliced Goku’s cheek on purpose and meant to piss Goku off to continue the fight where he then used his disks to try their kill him and show Goku that Freeza had more tricks up his sleeves. I think if it was meant to kill Goku from the get go that Freeza would have started with two disks and aimed to where Goku couldn’t dodge at the last minute.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 11, 2018 20:03:35 GMT
freeza was a dumb fuck in super, he didn't test his golden form and lost for the same reason he lost in dbz. Lost ki and stamina, and then had to use a laser beam from his co-worker to down goku from behind. He got smarter later by controlling his golden form in hell...some how. I just wish his golden form were a god form of his own, it diminishes the awesomeness of god forms and god ki for a mere mortal to surpass a god ki user who isn't a kaioshin or god of creation. speaking of which, do kaioshin have a different ki than say beerus or god goku? They could sense kaioshin, but not beerus or wiss or even ssjb goku unless they themselves were gods. In any case, here's hoping the new brolly is good! Yeah I forgot about all that, but for the bold that's just not true. In Z, he lost because he waited too long to kill Goku, and fucked up blowing the planet away. In Super, he lost because Beerus and Whis decided to intervene only after Frieza succeeded in defeating them. I mean, he didn't kill Goku but the planet was gone. He won lol. Now, if we're talking about in Z, I guess we can ignore all the ways he fucked up before Goku became a Super Saiyan, and focus solely on the final battle, but I prefer not to. The only thing Frieza fucked up on in Super was not testing/training the Golden Form on stamina (which in fairness, was incredibly idiotic of him...), otherwise he was... golden...
I'll leave.
Good question... I think they just have normal Ki. Goku could sense Supreme Kai.He won, but not in the usual sense. He would have lost in time for several reasons. The namekian dragon balls would fix everything, and he would have been due to face goku in time eventually and lose, because he had no way to get home quickly to recover his strength, and when he got to a planet suitable for life, goku would teleport back 1 way or another, and face him then and there, knowing he would blow up the planet if he got the chance and wipe him out once and for all. Then theres his L against goku, resorting to a sneak attack with it being 2 on 1. Then theres his other L against vegeta who forced his hand and made him blow up the earth in the 1st place. Theres a lame video game made after freeza called Freeza: Other L which is about how freeza loses so damn much, with his non canon and canon L's. So, yeah, freeza was a damn dumb ass, who even considering a world without wiss, he'd have lost in time, but wiss made his loss come that much sooner.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 11, 2018 20:04:40 GMT
@thatguy If Whis didn't rewind time, they probably would've asked King Kai to speak with the Nameks and restore the Earth and then kill Freeza. Freeza would've had a short-lived victory unless the Z fighter forget about Porunga. My problem with ROF is that the story should've never reached the point of Freeza getting the opportunity to destroy the planet. Goku was able to counter every sneak attack Freeza threw at him on Namek so it makes no sense that he would lower his guard enough that a weak laser could hurt him. In the future timeline, Goku was able to kill both Freeza and King Cold before either one was able to ragequit and destroy the planet. He was planning on doing the same thing in the present had Trunks not intervened. Goku should've disintegrated Golden Freeza the first chance he got to prevent him from destroying the planet like he would've done to Mecha Freeza and King Cold. The story relied heavily on Goku forgetting what he already learned about Freeza in their previous encounters. It wasnt enough that they went with one of the most generic storylines but they took the laziness a step further and have Goku forget what Freeza does when he's losing just to make the movie last longer. This. Perfection.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 20:44:01 GMT
He was definitely trying to kill Goku with his disks, but I think the initial attack just sliced Goku’s cheek on purpose and meant to piss Goku off to continue the fight where he then used his disks to try their kill him and show Goku that Freeza had more tricks up his sleeves. I think if it was meant to kill Goku from the get go that Freeza would have started with two disks and aimed to where Goku couldn’t dodge at the last minute. Do you mean Freeza planned for Goku to dodge the first disc? It only sliced his cheek because he moved to the side at the last second. Freeza looked pretty angry when Goku continuously kept evading the first disc and only used a second one when Goku told him to go train and learn some new moves. Based on how angry Freeza was, it seemed like he thought one disc would be enough to kill Goku and had no choice but to use another as he got more desperate. Either way, the discussion was about Freeza thinking a laser beam that was a tiny, minuscule fraction of Goku's power would've been effective against. I don't think any character should consider that a good strategy based on everything we've seen. In the manga, a big enough power difference means that catching someone off guard only temporarily stalls them but never causes any serious damage. The point of Freeza's men wanting to resurrect him was because their empire was falling apart. If these weak weapons were apparently useless against the average aliens they were at war with, I think it's stupid that it has any chance of working against a God tier martial arts master.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 11, 2018 22:55:02 GMT
He was definitely trying to kill Goku with his disks, but I think the initial attack just sliced Goku’s cheek on purpose and meant to piss Goku off to continue the fight where he then used his disks to try their kill him and show Goku that Freeza had more tricks up his sleeves. I think if it was meant to kill Goku from the get go that Freeza would have started with two disks and aimed to where Goku couldn’t dodge at the last minute. Do you mean Freeza planned for Goku to dodge the first disc? It only sliced his cheek because he moved to the side at the last second. Freeza looked pretty angry when Goku continuously kept evading the first disc and only used a second one when Goku told him to go train and learn some new moves. Based on how angry Freeza was, it seemed like he thought one disc would be enough to kill Goku and had no choice but to use another as he got more desperate. Either way, the discussion was about Freeza thinking a laser beam that was a tiny, minuscule fraction of Goku's power would've been effective against. I don't think any character should consider that a good strategy based on everything we've seen. In the manga, a big enough power difference means that catching someone off guard only temporarily stalls them but never causes any serious damage. The point of Freeza's men wanting to resurrect him was because their empire was falling apart. If these weak weapons were apparently useless against the average aliens they were at war with, I think it's stupid that it has any chance of working against a God tier martial arts master. I don't think freeza was intending for goku to dodge either. That's like saying he was intending for goku to blast him later on. He tried to kill him both times, and failed both times.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 0:32:51 GMT
I remember the old dispute about whether or not Broly could destroy a galaxy. In his first film, King Kai said the Southern Galaxy was destroyed but it was never specified if it was in one shot or over time. It's crazy to think he's coming back and potentially able to destroy entire universes! The kid who said Broly's "power was maximum" must've had a vision of the future. Also the guy who started this meme!
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 12, 2018 2:33:25 GMT
He was definitely trying to kill Goku with his disks, but I think the initial attack just sliced Goku’s cheek on purpose and meant to piss Goku off to continue the fight where he then used his disks to try their kill him and show Goku that Freeza had more tricks up his sleeves. I think if it was meant to kill Goku from the get go that Freeza would have started with two disks and aimed to where Goku couldn’t dodge at the last minute. Do you mean Freeza planned for Goku to dodge the first disc? It only sliced his cheek because he moved to the side at the last second. Freeza looked pretty angry when Goku continuously kept evading the first disc and only used a second one when Goku told him to go train and learn some new moves. Based on how angry Freeza was, it seemed like he thought one disc would be enough to kill Goku and had no choice but to use another as he got more desperate. Either way, the discussion was about Freeza thinking a laser beam that was a tiny, minuscule fraction of Goku's power would've been effective against. I don't think any character should consider that a good strategy based on everything we've seen. In the manga, a big enough power difference means that catching someone off guard only temporarily stalls them but never causes any serious damage. The point of Freeza's men wanting to resurrect him was because their empire was falling apart. If these weak weapons were apparently useless against the average aliens they were at war with, I think it's stupid that it has any chance of working against a God tier martial arts master. Maybe I’m remembering it wrong. I thought Freeza smirked when he cut Goku’s cheek and said something about him not being worth the trouble and Goku got pissed at him for his continued attempts to keep fighting. I thought Freeza was being coy with him before Goku went back into SS and they started back up again. I was more trying to say I could see Freeza’s reasoning for thinking a sneak attack could work rather than it was a good strategy or not based on past results.
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Post by The Retro Kakarotto on Jul 12, 2018 2:44:01 GMT
Son Pan @skar Around the 0:40 second mark, otherwise link is from the beginning to see Frieza's "Attitude" towards Goku, whether kill or toy with. Honestly looks like Frieza was trying his damnedest to kill Goku. If he was toying with him, he would've grinned or something before Goku says "I warned you." And even then, he does a "tick" sound making like he's angry at himself for missing Goku's head.
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Post by Son Pan on Jul 12, 2018 4:24:58 GMT
Son Pan @skar Around the 0:40 second mark, otherwise link is from the beginning to see Frieza's "Attitude" towards Goku, whether kill or toy with. Honestly looks like Frieza was trying his damnedest to kill Goku. If he was toying with him, he would've grinned or something before Goku says "I warned you." And even then, he does a "tick" sound making like he's angry at himself for missing Goku's head.
Thanks. I just remembered it wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 19:23:40 GMT
Maybe I’m remembering it wrong. I thought Freeza smirked when he cut Goku’s cheek and said something about him not being worth the trouble and Goku got pissed at him for his continued attempts to keep fighting. I thought Freeza was being coy with him before Goku went back into SS and they started back up again. I was more trying to say I could see Freeza’s reasoning for thinking a sneak attack could work rather than it was a good strategy or not based on past results. It might've played out differently in the original DBZ due to the scene being longer but I was going by the manga. In the manga, Freeza yelled as they threw it at Goku and only seemed to grunt when it missed him.
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Post by supergojita3 on Jul 12, 2018 21:09:04 GMT
This is a bit off topic, due to it being about brolly.
Let's hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Lets put forth some ideas to hope for, and some bad ideas to prepare for. I'll start.
This brolly is jealous of goku for some reason and goes on big dumb tirades. Kale looks at him and realizes how silly her grudge against goku was and blushes out of embarrassment. -bad
lssj or berserker is a form of ssj god that evolved in a different way. It is a ssj devil, a reference to brollys line in dbz movie 8,kales lssj form is actually a demonic ssj form and further use devolves her mind, even though she "mastered" it in super. She then must only use it when absolutely necesary, or degenerate into a mindless jackal. -good.
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