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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 23:47:48 GMT
Dawwww, look at you guys tryin to make sense of DBS hype mags. Sooo cute.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 29, 2018 23:50:04 GMT
Axalon
Wait since when is Jiren stronger than Beerus? All I heard was he is supposedly stronger than his God of Destruction (can't remember his name, Belmout or something). Unless I missed something there I'm pretty sure Beerus is just stronger than both of them. Oh there's nothing I'd like more than for Beerus to still be the strongest in the universe, if only to keep Goku in check if nothing else, but after going back through some things I'm not so sure now. So if Whis is saying this pre-ToP, then Jiren is stronger, which means Broly is stronger if the marketing is to be believed. That said, power levels have been retconned before (namely Beerus) so it wouldn't surprise me if Beerus was yet again stronger than everyone else, or if Jiren was retconned, or if Beerus just trained for 30 seconds and gained a whole bunch of power in typical DBS fashion.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 29, 2018 23:57:22 GMT
I guess it's possible he meant in one of the 4 universes that didn't participate, but that's some reaching right there. [/font][/quote] Not when Whis sees Jiren go LOL NO to Goku's Spirit Bomb and repeats himself, sadly.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 30, 2018 1:07:44 GMT
I guess it's possible he meant in one of the 4 universes that didn't participate, but that's some reaching right there. Not when Whis sees Jiren go LOL NO to Goku's Spirit Bomb and repeats himself, sadly.
I don't know about this. Many people thought that Whis said that originally just to get Goku & Vegeta hyped up and to make sure they did their absolute best. Also in this reiteration he says perhaps and appears. These vague terms used in his phrasing can allow that to remain true. He also doesn't reiterate the fact that the GoD of the Universe where a stronger mortal exists is stronger than Beerus.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 30, 2018 1:40:18 GMT
Not when Whis sees Jiren go LOL NO to Goku's Spirit Bomb and repeats himself, sadly.
I don't know about this. Many people thought that Whis said that originally just to get Goku & Vegeta hyped up and to make sure they did their absolute best. Also in this reiteration he says perhaps and appears. These vague terms used in his phrasing can allow that to remain true. He also doesn't reiterate the fact that the GoD of the Universe where a stronger mortal exists is stronger than Beerus.
He's already said it once. Just because he didn't reiterate himself word-for-word doesn't take back that he said Jiren was stronger than a GoD who was stronger than Beerus, especially since he later quotes himself, literally, then says "Welp, seems like the rumors were true". Barring a retcon this would then mean Broly would be stronger than Beerus.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 30, 2018 3:49:20 GMT
I don't know about this. Many people thought that Whis said that originally just to get Goku & Vegeta hyped up and to make sure they did their absolute best. Also in this reiteration he says perhaps and appears. These vague terms used in his phrasing can allow that to remain true. He also doesn't reiterate the fact that the GoD of the Universe where a stronger mortal exists is stronger than Beerus.
He's already said it once. Just because he didn't reiterate himself word-for-word doesn't take back that he said Jiren was stronger than a GoD who was stronger than Beerus, especially since he later quotes himself, literally, then says "Welp, seems like the rumors were true". Barring a retcon this would then mean Broly would be stronger than Beerus.
No, I think you don't understand what I'm Saiyan. I'm trying to say that the whole part about the mortal stronger than a GoD being stronger than Beerus was him trying to hype up Goku & Vegeta in regards to the upcoming challenges the ToP would have them facing. Remember a lot of people did speculate that especially since Beerus and Whis tricked everyone into thinking that Monaka was the strongest opponent that Beerus ever faced with Goku being the second strongest.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 30, 2018 4:07:48 GMT
He's already said it once. Just because he didn't reiterate himself word-for-word doesn't take back that he said Jiren was stronger than a GoD who was stronger than Beerus, especially since he later quotes himself, literally, then says "Welp, seems like the rumors were true". Barring a retcon this would then mean Broly would be stronger than Beerus.
No, I think you don't understand what I'm Saiyan. I'm trying to say that the whole part about the mortal stronger than a GoD being stronger than Beerus was him trying to hype up Goku & Vegeta in regards to the upcoming challenges the ToP would have them facing. Remember a lot of people did speculate that especially since Beerus and Whis tricked everyone into thinking that Monaka was the strongest opponent that Beerus ever faced with Goku being the second strongest.
I don't believe this is the case, at least, not to Monaka-levels. Beerus is the one who pulls tricks like that, whereas Whis is often brutally honest, whether its with Goku and Vegeta, or Beerus himself. Whis always tells Goku and Vegeta exactly what their faults are and exactly how to improve if they'd only stop being Saiyanly Stubborn and take everything he has to say wholeheartedly. So while he may indeed have been hyping Goku/Vegeta up with promises of powerful opponents, his second monologue when the ToP is underway and Goku is having his ass kicked is pretty much done expressly for overall narrative purposes, since at best the only two people who could hear him talking were likely Beerus and Shin.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 14:25:37 GMT
That's if Broly is stronger than Beerus to begin with, which reopens the whole can of worms regarding Jiren's strength in relation to the GoDs, Beerus' strength in relation to the other GoDs, and of course how different, if any, the anime is from the manga for all of those categories which for the sake of brevity I will not reopen (too much) here. Yeah the marketing was a little confusing. The Gods of Destruction seemed relatively close whenever we saw them fight so I assumed Jiren and Broly being "stronger than a God of Destruction" was referring to all of them. I hope they don't retcon Beerus' power again. If Goku hasn't surpassed him with MUI, he would have to pull out yet another color to finally do it in a future saga. Broly's power is constantly rising as he fights in the movie so he'll probably start off well below Beerus and surpass him by the end of it.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 30, 2018 16:33:15 GMT
No, I think you don't understand what I'm Saiyan. I'm trying to say that the whole part about the mortal stronger than a GoD being stronger than Beerus was him trying to hype up Goku & Vegeta in regards to the upcoming challenges the ToP would have them facing. Remember a lot of people did speculate that especially since Beerus and Whis tricked everyone into thinking that Monaka was the strongest opponent that Beerus ever faced with Goku being the second strongest.
I don't believe this is the case, at least, not to Monaka-levels. Beerus is the one who pulls tricks like that, whereas Whis is often brutally honest, whether its with Goku and Vegeta, or Beerus himself. Whis always tells Goku and Vegeta exactly what their faults are and exactly how to improve if they'd only stop being Saiyanly Stubborn and take everything he has to say wholeheartedly. So while he may indeed have been hyping Goku/Vegeta up with promises of powerful opponents, his second monologue when the ToP is underway and Goku is having his ass kicked is pretty much done expressly for overall narrative purposes, since at best the only two people who could hear him talking were likely Beerus and Shin.
Whis played along with Beerus' Monaka trick and of course Whis being dishonest here to trick Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be to Monaka-levels. I just mentioned that to show that he has been dishonest before for the benefit of Goku and Vegeta, so it goes to show he could've done it again.
Yes you are correct about the second monologue being for overall narrative purposes and I'd like to once again point out that during said second monologue that he never mentioned the mortal coming from a Universe where the GoD was stronger than Beerus or any variation like Belmod being stronger than Beerus. So if the first mention was just to hype up Goku and Vegeta and the second didn't reiterate the "stronger than Beerus" part then it very well could be that Jiren isn't stronger than Beerus and no retconning would be needed for this to be the case.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 17:18:00 GMT
Kor SaiyajinkamiI'm not sure if the gap between Beerus and Belmod is that big that Jiren (and Broly) could be noticeably stronger than Belmond but still weaker than Beerus. Taking the statement "stronger than a God of Destruction" at face value would mean that Jiren and Broly are intended to be stronger than all of them. I think it overcomplicates things to assume that it only meant some Gods of Destruction and not all especially when the story didn't imply there was a huge gap between their power. Beerus was implied to be stronger than Champa but they were close enough that a battle between them were pretty even.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 30, 2018 17:34:28 GMT
Kor Saiyajinkami I'm not sure if the gap between Beerus and Belmod is that big that Jiren (and Broly) could be noticeably stronger than Belmond but still weaker than Beerus. Taking the statement "stronger than a God of Destruction" at face value would mean that Jiren and Broly are intended to be stronger than all of them. I think it overcomplicates things to assume that it only meant some Gods of Destruction and not all especially when the story didn't imply there was a huge gap between their power. Beerus was implied to be stronger than Champa but they were close enough that a battle between them were pretty even.
Yeah, but Beerus and Champa being nearly the same strength makes sense when you think about it along the lines of their Universes being twin Universes and even them being twins themselves. As for there being big enough differences between various GoDs, it actually makes sense when you look at U9s GoD Sidra and how he seems to be one of the weakest GoDs who doesn't do his job very well and is seen as a disgrace of a GoD by his Angel. As for noticeably stronger, that doesn't even have to be by much ya know. Now as for the difference between Beerus and Belmod that's pretty much unkown, but as the example Sidra works as it could be enough for Jiren (and Broly) to fit in between and still be noticeably stronger than Belmod, but weaker than Beerus.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 18:23:22 GMT
Yeah, but Beerus and Champa being nearly the same strength makes sense when you think about it along the lines of their Universes being twin Universes and even them being twins themselves. As for there being big enough differences between various GoDs, it actually makes sense when you look at U9s GoD Sidra and how he seems to be one of the weakest GoDs who doesn't do his job very well and is seen as a disgrace of a GoD by his Angel. As for noticeably stronger, that doesn't even have to be by much ya know. Now as for the difference between Beerus and Belmod that's pretty much unkown, but as the example Sidra works as it could be enough for Jiren (and Broly) to fit in between and still be noticeably stronger than Belmod, but weaker than Beerus. Where was it implied Sidra was the weakest God of Destruction? The only time we've seen him fight was the manga's God of Destruction battle royale. Beerus had an advantage due to having an incomplete Ultra Instinct but they were all in bad shape by the end. The fact that a few of them relied on unique abilities could imply they weren't that far apart in terms of power. I'm wondering what would be purpose storywise for Jiren and Broly to be stronger than some of the Gods of Destruction but not Beerus? That would just be a repeat of RoF.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 30, 2018 20:55:01 GMT
Whis played along with Beerus' Monaka trick and of course Whis being dishonest here to trick Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be to Monaka-levels. I just mentioned that to show that he has been dishonest before for the benefit of Goku and Vegeta, so it goes to show he could've done it again. He played along because he thought it was freaking hilarious and nagged the ever-loving crap out of Beerus every chance he got because of how flimsy a gag it was. In terms of actual training Whis himself has never falsely led Goku or Vegeta astray and has always been extremely precise without having to make up imaginary opponents for them to strive for, instead opting to have the two better themselves. Him omitting it the second time he's saying it doesn't mean his first instance is automatically declared non-canon. He's literally quoting himself and saying "Yup, seems like it's true". He's NOT saying "Yup, seems like I was only half-right, but maybe he's not stronger than BEERUS, just every other God of Destruction". Or "Yup I was half-right, but it seems he's only stronger than Belmod, not anybody else." The main purpose is to hype up Jiren as TEH MOST POWAHFUL ENEMY EVAH and it falls flat if Jiren is actually NOT the most powerful enemy ever and Gods of Destruction, who he's supposedly stronger than, who are literally sitting all around him, actually outclass him--leading to another RoF situation where Golden Frieza is on a rampage and just stops in his tracks at the mere sight of Beerus. Where was it implied Sidra was the weakest God of Destruction? The only time we've seen him fight was the manga's God of Destruction battle royale. Beerus had an advantage due to having an incomplete Ultra Instinct but they were all in bad shape by the end. The fact that a few of them relied on unique abilities could imply they weren't that far apart in terms of power. I'm wondering what would be purpose storywise for Jiren and Broly to be stronger than some of the Gods of Destruction but not Beerus? That would just be a repeat of RoF. He's using U9's having the lowest mortal level as the basis of Sidra being the weakest GoD. Ignoring that this is false (since Toppo is the weakest GoD due to being brand new at it) mortal levels themselves don't factor into GoD strength. Otherwise Beerus would've had his ass kicked when all the other GoDs teamed up on him since U7 is the second lowest mortal level, as opposed to how he was able to hold his own for a bit.
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Post by Conqueror Geng on Aug 30, 2018 21:06:08 GMT
Yep. People seem to be forgetting that if we only include the material available (which was the exhibition match in Manga) and not vague hints or headcanons, there is simple no definite proof any GoD is stronger than the other. -Beerus managed to avoid all the attacks of the other GoD's simultaneously but didn't manage to harm any of them -Beerus threw a deathball which was supposedly capable of killing everyone, but Sidra stopped it effortlessly -Low level universe hakaishins managed to hold their own very well even against the GoD's in non-participating universes -Champa and Sidra seemed both equally beat up and damaged when shown -Belmod was just playing possum for the lolz -Quitela defeated Beerus on armwrestling and was the last one standing behind him, but I don't think this implies he's stronger than Beerus or that he's one of the strongest -High universe GoD's did not appear to have any advantage over low ones -Both Beerus and Quitela looked very damaged. If Daishinkan hadn't stopped them, they would've both knocked themselves out like Kefla and Gohan did -Thus, it seems the fact they were the 2 last standing ones was due to mere luck/casuality
It's safe to assume they're all very close to the same level. It's safe to assume Jiren and UI Goku are on this rank too. But trying to split and order them accurately (such as saying he's stronger than X god but weaker than Y and Z god) is impossible.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 30, 2018 21:15:27 GMT
Him omitting it the second time he's saying it doesn't mean his first instance is automatically declared non-canon. He's literally quoting himself and saying "Yup, seems like it's true". He's NOT saying "Yup, seems like I was only half-right, but maybe he's not stronger than BEERUS, just every other God of Destruction". Or "Yup I was half-right, but it seems he's only stronger than Belmod, not anybody else." The main purpose is to hype up Jiren as TEH MOST POWAHFUL ENEMY EVAH and it falls flat if Jiren is actually NOT the most powerful enemy ever and Gods of Destruction, who he's supposedly stronger than, who are literally sitting all around him, actually outclass him--leading to another RoF situation where Golden Frieza is on a rampage and just stops in his tracks at the mere sight of Beerus.
True that doesn't automatically mean it's non-canon, but it does bring into question whether or not the statement was the truth or just said to hype Goku and Vegeta up so they wouldn't take things lightly. Honestly we'll have to see whether or not Jiren is stronger than Beerus at a later time to truly confirm it. At least I will since you've already taken Whis's word as automatically not being a lie since your interpretation is he never lies unless it's to back up Beerus' lies just so he can toy with Beerus and make fun of Beerus' decisions. As for Broly, we'll have to wait until the movie to determine whether or not he's stronger than Beerus especially since advertising has labeled as "More powerful than a God of Destruction?!"
As for such a thing causing an RoF situation, no it wouldn't've since the GoDs couldn't interfere with the tournament unless they wanted to be erased on the spot by the 2 Zen-Ohs.
Honestly I don't see this conversation going anywhere further than spinning in circles. You are entitled to your interpretation as I am to mine and that's fine, so on that point I believe we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 30, 2018 21:22:00 GMT
Yeah, but Beerus and Champa being nearly the same strength makes sense when you think about it along the lines of their Universes being twin Universes and even them being twins themselves. As for there being big enough differences between various GoDs, it actually makes sense when you look at U9s GoD Sidra and how he seems to be one of the weakest GoDs who doesn't do his job very well and is seen as a disgrace of a GoD by his Angel. As for noticeably stronger, that doesn't even have to be by much ya know. Now as for the difference between Beerus and Belmod that's pretty much unkown, but as the example Sidra works as it could be enough for Jiren (and Broly) to fit in between and still be noticeably stronger than Belmod, but weaker than Beerus. Where was it implied Sidra was the weakest God of Destruction? The only time we've seen him fight was the manga's God of Destruction battle royale. Beerus had an advantage due to having an incomplete Ultra Instinct but they were all in bad shape by the end. The fact that a few of them relied on unique abilities could imply they weren't that far apart in terms of power. I'm wondering what would be purpose storywise for Jiren and Broly to be stronger than some of the Gods of Destruction but not Beerus? That would just be a repeat of RoF.
Since Axalon is wrong about where I got that from, I guess I'm forced to answer now. Where I got this from was the fact that Sidra is the GoD who does the least amount of work and is seen as a disgrace of a GoD by his Angel attendant, Mojito. Now maybe taking this and assuming that he also trains the least is too far of a stretch, I guess I will admit that, but I stand by my assumption that that is likely true.
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Post by Axalon on Aug 30, 2018 21:57:46 GMT
True that doesn't automatically mean it's non-canon, but it does bring into question whether or not the statement was the truth or just said to hype Goku and Vegeta up so they wouldn't take things lightly. Honestly we'll have to see whether or not Jiren is stronger than Beerus at a later time to truly confirm it. At least I will since you've already taken Whis's word as automatically not being a lie since your interpretation is he never lies unless it's to back up Beerus' lies just so he can toy with Beerus and make fun of Beerus' decisions. Since my allusions haven't quite come across clearly I'm just going to state it plainly. Why can't it be both? Why can't he be telling the truth AND hyping them up? My point isn't that Whis can't be hyping them up, just that I doubt he's making a false statement when hyping them up. Again, Whis has never lied to them--save for that ONE time when he was going along, under Beerus' orders mind you, for that awfully contrived Monaka joke--so why would he lie now just to "hype them up" and then basically repeat himself when essentially talking to himself and the audience when Goku and Vegeta aren't even in earshot? He's not hyping them up that second time after all. Lack of work doesn't mean lack of strength unless your name is Gohan. Beerus is in the running for GoD who does the least amount of work--he's prone to delegating his job and to taking multiverse-threatening naps for literally 50 years after all--but going off the manga he's one of the stronger GoDs out there. Mojito also notes that Frieza is a better GoD than Sidra is, which is was in reference to how cold-blooded Frieza was with his willingness to indulge in some wanton destruction--traits befitting a GoD that Sidra lacks. I doubt he was saying Frieza was stronger than Sidra, simply that he had a better mindset. To turn this conversation back to Broly though, going off the marketing he should indeed be stronger than a GoD unless it's all a lie.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 14:25:59 GMT
Since Axalon is wrong about where I got that from, I guess I'm forced to answer now. Where I got this from was the fact that Sidra is the GoD who does the least amount of work and is seen as a disgrace of a GoD by his Angel attendant, Mojito. Now maybe taking this and assuming that he also trains the least is too far of a stretch, I guess I will admit that, but I stand by my assumption that that is likely true. I think Beerus and Champa are the laziest Gods of Destruction. Cats spend like 2/3rd of their lifespan sleeping! Since these guys are millions of years old, a mere catnap is a few decades long. If it wasn't for the Z fighters defeating every major threat of U7 and U6 Saiyans protecting their universe, U6 and U7 might have the lowest mortal rankings. The remaining few planets of U7 would've probably been cleared out and sold by Freeza's forces or destroyed by Buu by the time Beerus woke up if the Z fighters weren't able to defeat them.
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Post by Kor Saiyajinkami on Aug 31, 2018 15:48:08 GMT
True that doesn't automatically mean it's non-canon, but it does bring into question whether or not the statement was the truth or just said to hype Goku and Vegeta up so they wouldn't take things lightly. Honestly we'll have to see whether or not Jiren is stronger than Beerus at a later time to truly confirm it. At least I will since you've already taken Whis's word as automatically not being a lie since your interpretation is he never lies unless it's to back up Beerus' lies just so he can toy with Beerus and make fun of Beerus' decisions. Since my allusions haven't quite come across clearly I'm just going to state it plainly. Why can't it be both? Why can't he be telling the truth AND hyping them up? My point isn't that Whis can't be hyping them up, just that I doubt he's making a false statement when hyping them up. Again, Whis has never lied to them--save for that ONE time when he was going along, under Beerus' orders mind you, for that awfully contrived Monaka joke--so why would he lie now just to "hype them up" and then basically repeat himself when essentially talking to himself and the audience when Goku and Vegeta aren't even in earshot? He's not hyping them up that second time after all. Lack of work doesn't mean lack of strength unless your name is Gohan. Beerus is in the running for GoD who does the least amount of work--he's prone to delegating his job and to taking multiverse-threatening naps for literally 50 years after all--but going off the manga he's one of the stronger GoDs out there. Mojito also notes that Frieza is a better GoD than Sidra is, which is was in reference to how cold-blooded Frieza was with his willingness to indulge in some wanton destruction--traits befitting a GoD that Sidra lacks. I doubt he was saying Frieza was stronger than Sidra, simply that he had a better mindset. To turn this conversation back to Broly though, going off the marketing he should indeed be stronger than a GoD unless it's all a lie.
You're right that it can be both, but I'm still in the camp that believes it isn't both. I actually have chosen to interpret the lack of Whis mentioning the "stronger than Beerus" part when outta earshot of Goku and Vegeta as confirmation that it was a lie used to hype them up to the max as he wouldn't need to repeat such a lie when the ones it's meant to fool can't even hear him.
You're right that lack of work doesn't necessarily mean lack of strength, but that is often shown to be the case in post Cell Games DBZ and Super. Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Champa all fall into that category. Gohan because he choose to study and pursue a family life over training. Goten and Trunks because they choose to play around instead of training in Super. Champa because he doesn't remain fit and therefore as a result remains slightly weaker than Beerus when he probably would be stronger if he did remain fit since he has a teacher that is older, stronger, and more experienced than Beerus' teacher, Whis. Seeing as Super seems to follow the pattern that lack of work does mean lack of strength, I'm inclined to believe that Sidra who doesn't fulfill his duties as a GoD probably also slacks off in his training as well and therefore is probably the weakest GoD.
As for Beerus being in the running for GoD that works the least, I'm not so sure about that. Sure he may pass off some work to others like Frieza and even with that we don't even know if that was more than a one time thing. Also based off the info we received about Beerus prior to the introduction of other GoDs, it sounds like the GoDs are supposed to take breaks in between periods of destruction to allow for new creation to happen. So what does it matter that Beerus chooses to spend his time off sleeping?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 21:40:58 GMT
You're right that it can be both, but I'm still in the camp that believes it isn't both. I actually have chosen to interpret the lack of Whis mentioning the "stronger than Beerus" part when outta earshot of Goku and Vegeta as confirmation that it was a lie used to hype them up to the max as he wouldn't need to repeat such a lie when the ones it's meant to fool can't even hear him. You're right that lack of work doesn't necessarily mean lack of strength, but that is often shown to be the case in post Cell Games DBZ and Super. Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Champa all fall into that category. Gohan because he choose to study and pursue a family life over training. Goten and Trunks because they choose to play around instead of training in Super. Champa because he doesn't remain fit and therefore as a result remains slightly weaker than Beerus when he probably would be stronger if he did remain fit since he has a teacher that is older, stronger, and more experienced than Beerus' teacher, Whis. Seeing as Super seems to follow the pattern that lack of work does mean lack of strength, I'm inclined to believe that Sidra who doesn't fulfill his duties as a GoD probably also slacks off in his training as well and therefore is probably the weakest GoD. To be honest man, I think you're really overthinking it. The line about a "God of Destruction being stronger than Beerus" was anime-only so that could be why Toei decided not to include it later on when talking about Jiren's strength. Either that or because they already mentioned it so they didn't think it was necessarily to reiterate. Usually they try to keep it simple and straightforward in Dragonball. If they say something vague or misleading, it's probably unintentional and it's not meant to be a puzzle we have to piece together. If we're supposed to assume Sidra was the weakest GoD, they would've at least tried to clearly convey that within the story. They didn't because we saw him fight once and he was doing as well as the other Gods of Destruction. If we're supposed to assume Jiren was stronger than some GoDs but not all of them, they also would've tried to show that there was a big gap between the strongest and weakest GoDs but they were all relatively close in all the times we've seen the GoDs fight. I think the intention was for us to assume Jiren was stronger than all the Gods of Destruction. Yes, it's possible the writers only meant some of them but I'm just saying that they didn't do a good job of implying that if that was their intent. There were only 28 planets with intelligent life in U7 so for them to suggest that's a low number means there was a lot more destruction than creation going on. U7 was "only" the second lowest ranking universe because the Z fighters were there to prevent villains like Freeza and Buu from lowering it even more. I'm just saying that neglecting their jobs doesn't have to mean they slacked off in their training to the point that they lost so much power. In the GoD battle royale, the GoDs with the highest mortal ranking didn't outperform any of the GoDs from the lower ranking universes despite being more active.
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